(11-30-2015 07:56 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Here's the updated playoffs picture for you according to ESPN. You could make a case for Alabama to be #1 but they don't have any top 10 wins while Clemson has 2.
.

On what grounds? They have two top 25 wins, over LSU (23) and Wisconsin (25), and a decent loss to Ole Miss (16). Compared to Clemson's wins over ND (9), FSU (10), and no losses. And if you add CCG opponents, Alabama plays a team (18)beaten handily by a team beaten by Clemson, while Clemson plays a higher ranked team (9). I don't see where said argument can come from?

(11-30-2015 09:48 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:56 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Here's the updated playoffs picture for you according to ESPN. You could make a case for Alabama to be #1 but they don't have any top 10 wins while Clemson has 2.
.

On what grounds? They have two top 25 wins, over LSU (23) and Wisconsin (25), and a decent loss to Ole Miss (16). Compared to Clemson's wins over ND (9), FSU (10), and no losses. And if you add CCG opponents, Alabama plays a team (18)beaten handily by a team beaten by Clemson, while Clemson plays a higher ranked team (9). I don't see where said argument can come from?

Last week they said there was a debate about who was #1 between Clemson and Alabama. This weekend- Clemson struggled with South Carolina, while Alabama beat Auburn by 16. Auburn much better than South Carolina. If it was that close last week, that could easily flip things to Alabama. And Oklahoma could be in #2 as well.

Clemson's problem is they only had 6 teams with winning records. The other 5 FBS teams were all 4-8 or 3-9. Alabama played 1 losing team all season long. Clemson- games with 3 teams getting votes in either poll this week. Alabama- 8 games...

Good Lord Stever, you don't even try anymore. Pointing out that Alabama beat Auburn by 16, which more or less ignores the actual game flow and control of the game, since the MOV was not indicative of the game, ignores that Auburn nearly lost to an FCS school the week before. Both were close games against in-st ate teams that are not very good.

You have been claiming that Clemson won't be number one, or trying to make the case for it, then saying "I'm not saying it will happen, but it could." or much like you did last yea with FSU saying they shouldn't have been in the playoffs at all, but good lord man, Alabama has no top 10 or 20 wins, has a loss that is probably overranked, vs. a team with no losses, a better SOS, and better wins. Alabama is more likely to fall to three then go to one, as their best wins keep getting worse.

(11-30-2015 10:12 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Good Lord Stever, you don't even try anymore. Pointing out that Alabama beat Auburn by 16, which more or less ignores the actual game flow and control of the game, since the MOV was not indicative of the game, ignores that Auburn nearly lost to an FCS school the week before. Both were close games against in-st ate teams that are not very good.

You have been claiming that Clemson won't be number one, or trying to make the case for it, then saying "I'm not saying it will happen, but it could." or much like you did last yea with FSU saying they shouldn't have been in the playoffs at all, but good lord man, Alabama has no top 10 or 20 wins, has a loss that is probably overranked, vs. a team with no losses, a better SOS, and better wins. Alabama is more likely to fall to three then go to one, as their best wins keep getting worse.

um Auburn didn't play a FCS school the week before. They played Georgia. Auburn's FPI is 30 spots higher than South Carolina. Oh and South Carolina LOST to a FCS school the prior week.... And Alabama won by 16. Clemson won by 5. ESPN's game scores- Alabama 93 Clemson 84.

And sorry- but South Carolina is FAR worse than Auburn. They lost to FCS team.

and last week FPI-
Alabama 24.3 Clemson 21.2
this week
Alabama 25.1 Clemson 20.9

that takes into account game control.

and look at opponents last week-
Clemson- 5-5
App St won
Louisville won
Notre Dame lost
Ga Tech lost
BC lost
Miami won
NC State lost
FSU won
Syracuse won
WF lost

Alabama- 7-3
Wisconsin won
M Tenn won
Ole Miss won
La Monroe lost
Georgia won
Arkansas won
Texas A&M lost
Tennessee won
LSU won
Miss St lost

so Alabama's schedule got better.

And sorry but Clemson does NOT have a better SOS... Clemson's opponents are 57-53 vs FBS teams this year. Alabama's opponents are 70-41 vs FBS opponents this year. So how in the hell is Clemson's SOS stronger?

(11-30-2015 10:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  and look at opponents last week-
Clemson- 5-5
App St won
Louisville won
Notre Dame lost
Ga Tech lost
BC lost
Miami won
NC State lost
FSU won
Syracuse won
WF lost

Alabama- 7-3
Wisconsin won
M Tenn won
Ole Miss won
La Monroe lost
Georgia won
Arkansas won
Texas A&M lost
Tennessee won
LSU won
Miss St lost

so Alabama's schedule got better.

And sorry but Clemson does NOT have a better SOS... Clemson's opponents are 57-53 vs FBS teams this year. Alabama's opponents are 70-41 vs FBS opponents this year. So how in the hell is Clemson's SOS stronger?

How about 2 top 10 wins! Alabama hasn't even played a top 10 team! How many top 25 wins does Bama have?

that's 2 games. SOS is for entire season.

(11-30-2015 07:56 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 06:04 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 05:07 PM)esayem Wrote:  If, and I mean IF, UNC is able to beat the #1 team, they should be in. I don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend.

Clemson is a soft #1, IMHO.

Not soft. They did beat FSU and Notre Dame, two genuinely good teams. But the rest of their schedule wasn't impressive neither were many of their wins. Their overall SOS isn't good, they are getting a pass on that because they did face two good teams.

So while Clemson does deserve to be #1 on paper, they aren't some titanic #1 and truth be told, I don't think many will expect them to beat the likes of Alabama or Oklahoma in the playoffs. They would probably only be favored over Iowa.

Truth is, they were very lucky to beat Notre Dame. They had home field advantage, Notre Dame played about as bad as they can play, played like they did vs Boston College, took them almost three quarters to figure out the slippery turf, and still came within a whisker of beating Clemson. They play that game again and the Irish win more times than not.

Here's the updated playoffs picture for you according to ESPN. You could make a case for Alabama to be #1 but they don't have any top 10 wins while Clemson has 2.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with Clemson being #1. They probably aren't the actual best team, IMO, they are probably 4th, behind Alabama, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. If any of those teams played Clemson next week and you asked me to bet my life on the outcome, I'd bet on all of them over Clemson. But they have the resume on paper.

If they beat UNC, they surely deserve to be #1 or #2 seed, even though seeding in the playoffs means absolutely nothing.

(12-01-2015 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:56 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 06:04 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 05:07 PM)esayem Wrote:  If, and I mean IF, UNC is able to beat the #1 team, they should be in. I don't understand why that is so hard to comprehend.

Clemson is a soft #1, IMHO.

Not soft. They did beat FSU and Notre Dame, two genuinely good teams. But the rest of their schedule wasn't impressive neither were many of their wins. Their overall SOS isn't good, they are getting a pass on that because they did face two good teams.

So while Clemson does deserve to be #1 on paper, they aren't some titanic #1 and truth be told, I don't think many will expect them to beat the likes of Alabama or Oklahoma in the playoffs. They would probably only be favored over Iowa.

Truth is, they were very lucky to beat Notre Dame. They had home field advantage, Notre Dame played about as bad as they can play, played like they did vs Boston College, took them almost three quarters to figure out the slippery turf, and still came within a whisker of beating Clemson. They play that game again and the Irish win more times than not.

Here's the updated playoffs picture for you according to ESPN. You could make a case for Alabama to be #1 but they don't have any top 10 wins while Clemson has 2.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with Clemson being #1. They probably aren't the actual best team, IMO, they are probably 4th, behind Alabama, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. But they have the resume on paper.

If they beat UNC, they surely deserve to be in the playoffs, as #1 or #2 seed.

I agree with that "best" top 4. For me it is OU #1, Alabama #2, Ohio State #3, Clemson #4.

(12-01-2015 07:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  that's 2 games. SOS is for entire season.

Yeah, just 2 games. Just 2 top 10 qualify wins, that's all. How would Bama fare against a top 10 team? We wont know until the playoffs. Again, you can't just focus on a single metric. You have to look at the whole instead of the sum of its parts.

(12-01-2015 09:41 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:56 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 06:04 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Clemson is a soft #1, IMHO.

Not soft. They did beat FSU and Notre Dame, two genuinely good teams. But the rest of their schedule wasn't impressive neither were many of their wins. Their overall SOS isn't good, they are getting a pass on that because they did face two good teams.

So while Clemson does deserve to be #1 on paper, they aren't some titanic #1 and truth be told, I don't think many will expect them to beat the likes of Alabama or Oklahoma in the playoffs. They would probably only be favored over Iowa.

Truth is, they were very lucky to beat Notre Dame. They had home field advantage, Notre Dame played about as bad as they can play, played like they did vs Boston College, took them almost three quarters to figure out the slippery turf, and still came within a whisker of beating Clemson. They play that game again and the Irish win more times than not.

Here's the updated playoffs picture for you according to ESPN. You could make a case for Alabama to be #1 but they don't have any top 10 wins while Clemson has 2.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with Clemson being #1. They probably aren't the actual best team, IMO, they are probably 4th, behind Alabama, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. But they have the resume on paper.

If they beat UNC, they surely deserve to be in the playoffs, as #1 or #2 seed.

I agree with that "best" top 4. For me it is OU #1, Alabama #2, Ohio State #3, Clemson #4.

Ohio St is out, they didn't even win their division. For me it's 1 Clemson, 2 Oklahoma, 3 Alabama & 4 Michigan State. These are the 4 most deserving & the 4 best teams in the country, any one of them can win the title. Oklahoma is hot right now. Alabama & Clemson are the 2 best complete teams. Michigan State is the best out of the B1G & playing great football.

(12-01-2015 10:37 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Ohio St is out, they didn't even win their division. For me it's 1 Clemson, 2 Oklahoma, 3 Alabama & 4 Michigan State. These are the 4 most deserving & the 4 best teams in the country, any one of them can win the title. Oklahoma is hot right now. Alabama & Clemson are the 2 best complete teams. Michigan State is the best out of the B1G & playing great football.

Ohio State is probably out, they do need help to get in. But let me ask you: If Clemson and Ohio State were going to play next week and your life depending on picking the outcome, you wouldn't pick Clemson, would you? I sure wouldn't. I'd expect Ohio State to win by 10-14 points.

(12-01-2015 10:37 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 09:41 AM)Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:56 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(11-30-2015 07:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Not soft. They did beat FSU and Notre Dame, two genuinely good teams. But the rest of their schedule wasn't impressive neither were many of their wins. Their overall SOS isn't good, they are getting a pass on that because they did face two good teams.

So while Clemson does deserve to be #1 on paper, they aren't some titanic #1 and truth be told, I don't think many will expect them to beat the likes of Alabama or Oklahoma in the playoffs. They would probably only be favored over Iowa.

Truth is, they were very lucky to beat Notre Dame. They had home field advantage, Notre Dame played about as bad as they can play, played like they did vs Boston College, took them almost three quarters to figure out the slippery turf, and still came within a whisker of beating Clemson. They play that game again and the Irish win more times than not.

Here's the updated playoffs picture for you according to ESPN. You could make a case for Alabama to be #1 but they don't have any top 10 wins while Clemson has 2.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with Clemson being #1. They probably aren't the actual best team, IMO, they are probably 4th, behind Alabama, Ohio State, and Oklahoma. But they have the resume on paper.

If they beat UNC, they surely deserve to be in the playoffs, as #1 or #2 seed.

I agree with that "best" top 4. For me it is OU #1, Alabama #2, Ohio State #3, Clemson #4.

Ohio St is out, they didn't even win their division. For me it's 1 Clemson, 2 Oklahoma, 3 Alabama & 4 Michigan State. These are the 4 most deserving & the 4 best teams in the country, any one of them can win the title. Oklahoma is hot right now. Alabama & Clemson are the 2 best complete teams. Michigan State is the best out of the B1G & playing great football.

Oh, I agree that they are probably out, I just think they are one of the 4 best teams.

(12-01-2015 10:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 07:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  that's 2 games. SOS is for entire season.

Yeah, just 2 games. Just 2 top 10 qualify wins, that's all. How would Bama fare against a top 10 team? We wont know until the playoffs. Again, you can't just focus on a single metric. You have to look at the whole instead of the sum of its parts.

SOS is measured by the entire season, not 2 games.

(12-01-2015 10:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 10:37 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Ohio St is out, they didn't even win their division. For me it's 1 Clemson, 2 Oklahoma, 3 Alabama & 4 Michigan State. These are the 4 most deserving & the 4 best teams in the country, any one of them can win the title. Oklahoma is hot right now. Alabama & Clemson are the 2 best complete teams. Michigan State is the best out of the B1G & playing great football.

Ohio State is probably out, they do need help to get in. But let me ask you: If Clemson and Ohio State were going to play next week and your life depending on picking the outcome, you wouldn't pick Clemson, would you? I sure wouldn't. I'd expect Ohio State to win by 10-14 points.

Ohio State probably has more talent but there's been to much turmoil at the QB position, they haven't played up to their talent. Clemson plays better team ball so yes I would pick Clemson. Ohio State has the potential to be the best team in the country but they aren't playing that way. They haven't gotten back to the level that they were at last year & they have played down to their competition this season.

(12-01-2015 10:44 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 10:37 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Ohio St is out, they didn't even win their division. For me it's 1 Clemson, 2 Oklahoma, 3 Alabama & 4 Michigan State. These are the 4 most deserving & the 4 best teams in the country, any one of them can win the title. Oklahoma is hot right now. Alabama & Clemson are the 2 best complete teams. Michigan State is the best out of the B1G & playing great football.

Ohio State is probably out, they do need help to get in. But let me ask you: If Clemson and Ohio State were going to play next week and your life depending on picking the outcome, you wouldn't pick Clemson, would you? I sure wouldn't. I'd expect Ohio State to win by 10-14 points.

Ohio State probably has more talent but there's been to much turmoil at the QB position, they haven't played up to their talent. Clemson plays better team ball so yes I would pick Clemson. Ohio State has the potential to be the best team in the country but they aren't playing that way. They haven't gotten back to the level that they were at last year & they have played down to their competition this season.

(12-01-2015 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 10:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 07:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  that's 2 games. SOS is for entire season.

Yeah, just 2 games. Just 2 top 10 qualify wins, that's all. How would Bama fare against a top 10 team? We wont know until the playoffs. Again, you can't just focus on a single metric. You have to look at the whole instead of the sum of its parts.

SOS is measured by the entire season, not 2 games.

Top 10 & quality wins carry a lot of weight as well, perhaps even more than SOS. In Clemson case they have quality wins & a quality SOS.

(12-01-2015 11:21 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 10:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 07:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  that's 2 games. SOS is for entire season.

Yeah, just 2 games. Just 2 top 10 qualify wins, that's all. How would Bama fare against a top 10 team? We wont know until the playoffs. Again, you can't just focus on a single metric. You have to look at the whole instead of the sum of its parts.

SOS is measured by the entire season, not 2 games.

Top 10 & quality wins carry a lot of weight as well, perhaps even more than SOS. In Clemson case they have quality wins & a quality SOS.

they don't have a quality SOS though. Their SOS is #47. Alabama's on the other hand is #5. Alabama played a FCS team(that made the playoffs), and 1 losing team all year long. Clemson played a FCS team(that had a losing season) and 5 losing teams. Sorry, but Clemson does not have a quality SOS.

(12-01-2015 11:23 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 11:21 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 11:01 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 10:30 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(12-01-2015 07:55 AM)stever20 Wrote:  that's 2 games. SOS is for entire season.

Yeah, just 2 games. Just 2 top 10 qualify wins, that's all. How would Bama fare against a top 10 team? We wont know until the playoffs. Again, you can't just focus on a single metric. You have to look at the whole instead of the sum of its parts.

SOS is measured by the entire season, not 2 games.

Top 10 & quality wins carry a lot of weight as well, perhaps even more than SOS. In Clemson case they have quality wins & a quality SOS.

they don't have a quality SOS though. Their SOS is #47. Alabama's on the other hand is #5. Alabama played a FCS team(that made the playoffs), and 1 losing team all year long. Clemson played a FCS team(that had a losing season) and 5 losing teams. Sorry, but Clemson does not have a quality SOS.

We'll agree to disagree there. All of this is based on perceptions & computers right now, let's see what happens on the field.