(11-04-2015 09:24 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  First its not a mil per school its one mil per school up to 12. So adding to 14 doesnt bring in extra money. Also the left over sbc teams simply add more fcs back to a survivable conference.

I think the idea is with more teams, and thus more product, they'd get a better TV contract. Plus there'd be one less league angling for a TV contract of its own.

There is a reason why Idaho and New Mexico State were not invited to the MWC. They suck in football. They rather take Portland State, Eastern Washington or North Dakota State over those two body baggers.

(11-04-2015 09:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 07:03 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 05:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 04:43 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 03:19 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The WAC would have happened no matter what. The Big East, however, was always going to have a core. None of their schools would show any interest in moving from a onetime BCS conference to CUSA or the MAC. Maybe Houston and SMU kick the tires with the Mountain West, but I think even that's stretching it.

The only teams left from the Big East were UConn, Cinci, USF and a recently added Temple from the MAC. You say those teams would never join CUSA? Look at where their AAC conf mates came from-

- ECU (CUSA)
- Hou (CUSA)
- Mem (CUSA)
- SMU (CUSA)
- Tulane (CUSA)
- Tulsa (CUSA)
- UCF (CUSA)
- Navy (Ind)

newsflash: the AAC is CUSA + BE leftovers.

Most of those schools were already in transit and were in the Big East by the time the split happened and the football side left the power tier. And except in rare circumstances, once a school leaves a conference, they generally don't go back. No chance any of the former CUSA schools would have seriously considered returning; it would have been terrible optics; in their eyes, an admission of failure and a return to a conference that wasn't what it used to be.

no, there was never a point time when any of the schools on the list above were "in transit" to the Big East when it was still an AQ(P5) conference.

The Big East/AAC's last season as an AQ conference was 2013. Central Florida won the conference title and went to the Fiesta Bowl. Of the CUSA teams that migrated, only ECU, Tulane and Tulsa were not part of the Big East/AAC as an AQ conference.

If you're saying the Big East and AAC are distinct entities, I'd argue that it's a distinction without a difference, since the AAC obviously is the spiritual successor to the Big East football conference.

Correct.

UCF, Houston, SMU, Navy all came over to the Big East well before he post season was reformed.

Memphis/Temple just made the cut in the Spring of 2012. A decision to move to a playoff wasn't until September of 2012.

All of them thought they would remain in an AQ league. With the MWC out of autobid contention losing BYU/Utah/TCU it was obvious the Big East was still ahead of that group. They even invited Boise to help secure the autobid from the MWC.

It was going to be a best of the rest conference. Louisville and Rutgers moving at the end of 2012 killed it, then the basketball schools split off in early 2013 when Tulane/ECU were picked as replacements.

(11-04-2015 03:40 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I don't think you can really get to a G4 now even if the distribution was reworked. It may end up being that down the road as the autonomous benefits cost really start to kick in for quite a few G5 schools and either drop football or drop down to the FCS level.

Yeah.

If you are the MAC for example you've got 2 divisions of 6 schools moving forward. Each division winner plays in a championship game with a 20% chance at the Fiesta, Cotton or Peach Bowls.

Moving to a G4 gives that championship game winner a 25% chance but if its at the expense of adding 4 more teams you aren't gaining anything.

The bowl system is easier with smaller conferences. To begin you need less bowls for your conference so you can focus on more quality. Then you have more possible conferences to play.

Both CUSA and SBC have voted in high exit fees. What this means that unless it makes 100% institutional sense to switch you won't see schools moving around from those leagues.

Rice to AAC. Rice doesn't fit in CUSA institutionally anymore. Former SWC member deserves better. Louisiana to CUSA. They'd like a divorce from ULM and a marriage to LaTech. Southern Miss would be a nice game too.

The SBC is looking to stay at 10 schools. If CUSA is raided they might just stay at 12. Its very possible there isn't another opening for an FCS upgrade for 10 or more years.

Will schools move down because of FCA? I find it unlikely.

(11-04-2015 09:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 07:03 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 05:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 04:43 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 03:19 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  The WAC would have happened no matter what. The Big East, however, was always going to have a core. None of their schools would show any interest in moving from a onetime BCS conference to CUSA or the MAC. Maybe Houston and SMU kick the tires with the Mountain West, but I think even that's stretching it.

The only teams left from the Big East were UConn, Cinci, USF and a recently added Temple from the MAC. You say those teams would never join CUSA? Look at where their AAC conf mates came from-

- ECU (CUSA)
- Hou (CUSA)
- Mem (CUSA)
- SMU (CUSA)
- Tulane (CUSA)
- Tulsa (CUSA)
- UCF (CUSA)
- Navy (Ind)

newsflash: the AAC is CUSA + BE leftovers.

Most of those schools were already in transit and were in the Big East by the time the split happened and the football side left the power tier. And except in rare circumstances, once a school leaves a conference, they generally don't go back. No chance any of the former CUSA schools would have seriously considered returning; it would have been terrible optics; in their eyes, an admission of failure and a return to a conference that wasn't what it used to be.

no, there was never a point time when any of the schools on the list above were "in transit" to the Big East when it was still an AQ(P5) conference.

The Big East/AAC's last season as an AQ conference was 2013. Central Florida won the conference title and went to the Fiesta Bowl. Of the CUSA teams that migrated, only ECU, Tulane and Tulsa were not part of the Big East/AAC as an AQ conference.

If you're saying the Big East and AAC are distinct entities, I'd argue that it's a distinction without a difference, since the AAC obviously is the spiritual successor to the Big East football conference.

there was never an expectation that those teams were leaving the G5 for the P5, they understood what the AAC was beyond 2013.

(11-05-2015 09:38 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 09:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 07:03 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 05:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 04:43 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The only teams left from the Big East were UConn, Cinci, USF and a recently added Temple from the MAC. You say those teams would never join CUSA? Look at where their AAC conf mates came from-

- ECU (CUSA)
- Hou (CUSA)
- Mem (CUSA)
- SMU (CUSA)
- Tulane (CUSA)
- Tulsa (CUSA)
- UCF (CUSA)
- Navy (Ind)

newsflash: the AAC is CUSA + BE leftovers.

Most of those schools were already in transit and were in the Big East by the time the split happened and the football side left the power tier. And except in rare circumstances, once a school leaves a conference, they generally don't go back. No chance any of the former CUSA schools would have seriously considered returning; it would have been terrible optics; in their eyes, an admission of failure and a return to a conference that wasn't what it used to be.

no, there was never a point time when any of the schools on the list above were "in transit" to the Big East when it was still an AQ(P5) conference.

The Big East/AAC's last season as an AQ conference was 2013. Central Florida won the conference title and went to the Fiesta Bowl. Of the CUSA teams that migrated, only ECU, Tulane and Tulsa were not part of the Big East/AAC as an AQ conference.

If you're saying the Big East and AAC are distinct entities, I'd argue that it's a distinction without a difference, since the AAC obviously is the spiritual successor to the Big East football conference.

there was never an expectation that those teams were leaving the G5 for the P5, they understood what the AAC was beyond 2013.

Not true.

(11-05-2015 09:38 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 09:12 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 07:03 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 05:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(11-04-2015 04:43 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  The only teams left from the Big East were UConn, Cinci, USF and a recently added Temple from the MAC. You say those teams would never join CUSA? Look at where their AAC conf mates came from-

- ECU (CUSA)
- Hou (CUSA)
- Mem (CUSA)
- SMU (CUSA)
- Tulane (CUSA)
- Tulsa (CUSA)
- UCF (CUSA)
- Navy (Ind)

newsflash: the AAC is CUSA + BE leftovers.

Most of those schools were already in transit and were in the Big East by the time the split happened and the football side left the power tier. And except in rare circumstances, once a school leaves a conference, they generally don't go back. No chance any of the former CUSA schools would have seriously considered returning; it would have been terrible optics; in their eyes, an admission of failure and a return to a conference that wasn't what it used to be.

no, there was never a point time when any of the schools on the list above were "in transit" to the Big East when it was still an AQ(P5) conference.

The Big East/AAC's last season as an AQ conference was 2013. Central Florida won the conference title and went to the Fiesta Bowl. Of the CUSA teams that migrated, only ECU, Tulane and Tulsa were not part of the Big East/AAC as an AQ conference.

If you're saying the Big East and AAC are distinct entities, I'd argue that it's a distinction without a difference, since the AAC obviously is the spiritual successor to the Big East football conference.

there was never an expectation that those teams were leaving the G5 for the P5, they understood what the AAC was beyond 2013.

Definitely not true. When Houston accepted the invite, the BCS still existed, and AQ status was still intact. Not sure where you are getting your info, but it is from a bad source. The playoffs brought about a push for autonomy, which is where the P5/G5 split happened, only due to major bowl tie-ins. It's an artificial split.

(11-05-2015 09:38 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  there was never an expectation that those teams were leaving the G5 for the P5, they understood what the AAC was beyond 2013.

Remember that this statement has to by the date they made the decision to move, not the date they moved. Even if it was clear when Houston joined that the Big East was losing their AQ status, they accepted the invitation late in 2011, and it was by no means clear late in 2011 that the Big East would be losing their AQ status. That was a year before the Rutgers and Louisville departures, after all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the Sunbelt could fall apart due to having so many programs that each of the MWC, AAC, CUSA and MAC would like to have that it can be pushed down below the numbers required for survival in "a single blow" ...

... the conferences would each individually have extended the invitations already.

While its hard to see how its feasible, the often floated ideas of re-arranging the SBC and CUSA schools into more geographically coherent conferences would at least have some clear benefits. The benefits for this idea are murky at best. The "extra money from the CFP" idea is mostly an optical illusion ... there's so much money, and so many schools, and the average payout per school is not going to be changed by taking a given number of schools and changing their conference allegiance. The current rules do not give much to independents other than Notre Dame, and if that was maintained in the renegotiation following this imagined death blow to the SBC, then driving a few schools into independence would increase the payout to the others by a very small amount, because plundering the majority of the shares of four SBC schools and spreading it out among around 60 schools is less than 7% more to go around for those that did the plundering.

And, of course, the other four Go5 conferences don't really want to float the idea that its good and proper behavior for conference that believes itself to be a higher status conference to stick the knife into a lower status conference with the deliberate intent of killing it off ... because if the idea is accepted that this is good and proper behavior, there are 5 P5 conferences that could turn around and do it to any of the Go5, some day.

(11-05-2015 08:33 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The bowl system is easier with smaller conferences. To begin you need less bowls for your conference so you can focus on more quality. Then you have more possible conferences to play.

More schools in the conference ... if you grow the size of each conference, each conference will want one or more bowls, not less.

(11-05-2015 11:59 PM)FormerShasta Wrote:  The playoffs brought about a push for autonomy, which is where the P5/G5 split happened, only due to major bowl tie-ins. It's an artificial split.

The Go5 did indeed come from the CFP negotiations, but they existed as the Group of 5 because they negotiated as a group during the CFP negotiations.

(11-04-2015 10:18 AM)shizzle787 Wrote:  The money would be split 4 ways instead of 5.

To the MW: Idaho, New Mexico State (both football-only)

To the MAC: Appalachian State, Georgia Southern, South Alabama, Coastal Carolina (all sports)

To C-USA: Arkansas State, Texas State (all sports)


Georgia State, Troy, and the two Louisianas are forced to go independent.