(11-19-2015 01:36 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 01:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:46 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 11:53 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 11:48 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well now that is done, who will the PC police go after next. Illinois Fighting Illini?

There have to be enough local people who want to fight.

That was UND's big problem. I think clearly Illinois doesn't have that problem, or it would've come up by now.

The reason why the Illini name has been allowed by the NCAA is because that was the nickname for Illinois state residents that fought in World War I (which is when the university started calling its teams the "Fighting Illini"). Contrary to popular belief, there isn't any "Illini" tribe, which is why the name itself hasn't come under scrutiny by the NCAA. However, the NCAA did effectively force the university to drop the use of Chief Illiniwek and other Native American imagery several years ago, where the NCAA would not allow the university to sponsor any NCAA events without eliminating the Chief. As much as the football and basketball-focused fans might have been willing to make that trade-off, the athletic department couldn't in good conscious kill the recruiting prospects of all of its other sports to retain the symbol.

Florida State is the other prominent example of a college using Native American imagery. They can use the Seminole name because they pay a licensing fee to the Seminole tribe for its use, so that passes NCAA muster. North Dakota was not able to come to that type of agreement with the Sioux.

There were definitely Illinois tribes. Don't know who told you there weren't. They were a major Algonquin group in the Midwest.


The nickname absolutely is associated with Native Americans, at least according to the University of Illinois (who would seem to be the authority): http://archives.library.illinois.edu/fea...illini.php

[b]When it was developed, did the term "Fighting Illini" refer to Native Americans?

The question is open to interpretation. The time period during which the "Fighting Illini" nickname developed coincided with the use of Native American imagery, usually in a romantic style. Therefore, it is not surprising that Native American imagery was sometimes associated with the Stadium Drive campaign and its slogan. Here are some examples.
•In Clarence Welsh's 1921 brochure, University of Illinois Memorial Stadium, the stadium is referred to (PDF, 114KB) as "the symbol of a new united, fighting, aspiring tribe of Illini, who know how to honor their living heroes and venerate their dead."
•On the frontispiece of the brochure by Clarence Welsh (pdf 151 KB), a Native American is shown looking off to a cloud. The cloud includes a column which was originally proposed to stand at the north end of the stadium.
•Another stadium drive publication, The Illinois Stadium 'For Fighting Illini' (pdf, 69KB) shows a Native American chief presenting the stadium as a gift to the University, symbolized by the Library (now Altgeld Hall) carillon tower.
•The cover of the Stadium Souvenir Program, Dedication Homecoming 1924' (pdf, 1.28MB) contains two figures rising above the left corner of the Stadium. The drawings seem to subtly suggest a soldier in "doughboy" uniform behind which is a figure suggestive of a Native American, not dissimilar to Lorado Taft's statue of Blackhawk in Oregon, Illinois (jpg, 160KB).
•From the beginning of the Stadium campaign, there was an effort to connect an image of the Native American "Illini" to the University of Illinois students, athletes, and alumni. The Native Illini were characterized as brave individualists whose heritage was somehow passed directly to the Univeristy Illini "through the pioneers who fought them and learned to know them." This is vividly illustrated by three pages from Story of the Stadium, ca. 1920/21' (pdf, 272 KB).
•The connection between the term "Illini" and the original native inhabitants of the state continued for many decades as shown in the 1976/77 Reference Folder, a publication used for public information and new student recruitment(jpg, 867KB).
[/b]

I'm not copying the whole section, but it talks about being the Illini and other names such as "Indians" prior to WWI.

All of those instances are still referring to Native American images that the university used in connection with the nickname, which the school has removed entirely. What you are referring to is a group of Illinois-based tribes that were collectively called by European settlers as the "Illini" or "Illiniwek", but that wasn't the name that the Native Americans used for themselves. As a result, there simply isn't any "Illini" tribe itself (unlike the existence of the Seminole, Ute or Sioux tribes), which is why the nickname is allowed. The NCAA agreed with that distinction and they're the ones that brought up the issue in the first place (as they did explicitly force us to get rid of Chief Illinwek). As someone else mentioned, Iowa also used Native American images in connection with its Hawkeyes nickname for many years, as well, but since they got rid of those images and there isn't any actual "Hawkeye" tribe", there isn't any issue with that nickname.

Makes sense to me.

(11-19-2015 01:55 PM)Wedge Wrote:  They could have chosen the nickname "Superstars" and then their fans would just shorten that to "Soo".

Or the "Sue".

Heh.

(11-18-2015 04:55 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  The University of North Dakota has a new nickname, replacing “Fighting Sioux,” which the school retired three years ago.
Please welcome the North Dakota Fighting Hawks!

This royally sucks.

The vote was 57% Fighting Hawks and 43% Roughriders in the runoff. Supposedly, 80% of students wanted Fighting Hawks. 85% of the couple hundred fans on our UND message board wanted Roughriders. I am sure the uninformed alumni didn't vote so favorably for Roughriders.

The sudents wanted FH because they wouldn't lose the Fighting part of the name, still could yell Sioux rather than Hawks, a hawk logo that was the property of the Chicago Blackhawks was identified as cool (but people werent informed that it wont be used), HAWKS so sold as an acronym: How About We Keep Sioux.

So the trend that IndIan nicknames get replaced by birds, colors, or both (RedHawks) continues.

(11-19-2015 01:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 01:08 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  Utah Utes get away with it. Also the William & Mary Tribe, although there's no feather in their logo anymore. Iowa Hawkeyes were once considered an American Indian mascot, although they're apparently now just hawk's eyes.

James Fenimore Cooper wants to talk to you about those Hawkeyes.

Cooper's Hawkeye character was caucasian.

(11-19-2015 02:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 04:55 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  The University of North Dakota has a new nickname, replacing “Fighting Sioux,” which the school retired three years ago.
Please welcome the North Dakota Fighting Hawks!

This royally sucks.

The vote was 57% Fighting Hawks and 43% Roughriders in the runoff. Supposedly, 80% of students wanted Fighting Hawks. 85% of the couple hundred fans on our UND message board wanted Roughriders. I am sure the uninformed alumni didn't vote so favorably for Roughriders.

The sudents wanted FH because they wouldn't lose the Fighting part of the name, still could yell Sioux rather than Hawks, a hawk logo that was the property of the Chicago Blackhawks was identified as cool (but people werent informed that it wont be used), HAWKS so sold as an acronym: How About We Keep Sioux.

So the trend that IndIan nicknames get replaced by birds, colors, or both (RedHawks) continues.

It's too bad they couldn't have worked into the settlement to just be UND.

I wonder, if that was an option, could it have won the vote.

(11-19-2015 12:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 06:03 PM)Jimmy Wrote:  Now what do I do with my Teddy Roosevelt glasses?

Ironic that they would keep "Fighting" in the name since this is the result of turtling instead of fighting.

This

The whole thing is a joke.

Aren't one group of the Sioux nation all okay with them keeping the name?

Dude, you got to the party at 3am and everyone is passed out.

Yes, one of the Sioux tribes wanted UND to keep the name and tried to make that happen. UND fought. This all happened 3-5 years ago.

The fight was over a couple years ago.


This was just the process of picking a new name (one of the requirements of the settlement).

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

(11-19-2015 02:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 06:03 PM)Jimmy Wrote:  Now what do I do with my Teddy Roosevelt glasses?

Ironic that they would keep "Fighting" in the name since this is the result of turtling instead of fighting.

This

The whole thing is a joke.

Aren't one group of the Sioux nation all okay with them keeping the name?

Dude, you got to the party at 3am and everyone is passed out.

Yes, one of the Sioux tribes wanted UND to keep the name and tried to make that happen. UND fought. This all happened 3-5 years ago.

The fight was over a couple years ago.


This was just the process of picking a new name (one of the requirements of the settlement).

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

(11-19-2015 02:35 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 01:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 01:08 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  Utah Utes get away with it. Also the William & Mary Tribe, although there's no feather in their logo anymore. Iowa Hawkeyes were once considered an American Indian mascot, although they're apparently now just hawk's eyes.

James Fenimore Cooper wants to talk to you about those Hawkeyes.

Cooper's Hawkeye character was caucasian.

Alright, alright, but the character was said to have been raised by Indians, and is renowned as a warrior who wanders the countryside with his foster brother Chingachgook. It's a classic "noble savage" tale. Like most of the American Indian mascots, this was a romanticized impression of a time when life was simpler and men were men.

(11-19-2015 02:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 06:03 PM)Jimmy Wrote:  Now what do I do with my Teddy Roosevelt glasses?

Ironic that they would keep "Fighting" in the name since this is the result of turtling instead of fighting.

This

The whole thing is a joke.

Aren't one group of the Sioux nation all okay with them keeping the name?

Dude, you got to the party at 3am and everyone is passed out.

Yes, one of the Sioux tribes wanted UND to keep the name and tried to make that happen. UND fought. This all happened 3-5 years ago.

The fight was over a couple years ago.


This was just the process of picking a new name (one of the requirements of the settlement).

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

In Central Michigan's case, there were Chippewa tribes that opposed all Indian nicknames. The one nearest Mt Pleasant endorsed the name early, and there wasn't made an issue about it.

For UND, the Spirit Lake held off on endorsing the nickname, which allowed other non-Sioux tribes to kick up a storm. Only when the Spirit Lake people voted 2 to 1 for the Sioux name, did the tribal council endorse it, but by then, the academics already had declared victory.

(11-19-2015 03:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  This

The whole thing is a joke.

Aren't one group of the Sioux nation all okay with them keeping the name?

Dude, you got to the party at 3am and everyone is passed out.

Yes, one of the Sioux tribes wanted UND to keep the name and tried to make that happen. UND fought. This all happened 3-5 years ago.

The fight was over a couple years ago.


This was just the process of picking a new name (one of the requirements of the settlement).

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

In Central Michigan's case, there were Chippewa tribes that opposed all Indian nicknames. The one nearest Mt Pleasant endorsed the name early, and there wasn't made an issue about it.

For UND, the Spirit Lake held off on endorsing the nickname, which allowed other non-Sioux tribes to kick up a storm. Only when the Spirit Lake people voted 2 to 1 for the Sioux name, did the tribal council endorse it, but by then, the academics already had declared victory.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I still don't see how if the next closest Chippawa tribe makes a big stink about it and wants the name gone, that they wouldn't have lost exactly the same way UND lost.

Sounds like, from your post, that the other Chippawa tribes shut up after the closest tribe endorsed it.

(11-19-2015 03:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Dude, you got to the party at 3am and everyone is passed out.

Yes, one of the Sioux tribes wanted UND to keep the name and tried to make that happen. UND fought. This all happened 3-5 years ago.

The fight was over a couple years ago.


This was just the process of picking a new name (one of the requirements of the settlement).

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

In Central Michigan's case, there were Chippewa tribes that opposed all Indian nicknames. The one nearest Mt Pleasant endorsed the name early, and there wasn't made an issue about it.

For UND, the Spirit Lake held off on endorsing the nickname, which allowed other non-Sioux tribes to kick up a storm. Only when the Spirit Lake people voted 2 to 1 for the Sioux name, did the tribal council endorse it, but by then, the academics already had declared victory.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I still don't see how if the next closest Chippawa tribe makes a big stink about it and wants the name gone, that they wouldn't have lost exactly the same way UND lost.

Sounds like, from your post, that the other Chippawa tribes shut up after the closest tribe endorsed it.

That won't matter if the PC people get the other tribes to start a stink about it....they'll get somebody next and it won't stop until all the Native American related mascots gone from all sport teams.

(11-19-2015 03:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 12:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Dude, you got to the party at 3am and everyone is passed out.

Yes, one of the Sioux tribes wanted UND to keep the name and tried to make that happen. UND fought. This all happened 3-5 years ago.

The fight was over a couple years ago.


This was just the process of picking a new name (one of the requirements of the settlement).

The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

In Central Michigan's case, there were Chippewa tribes that opposed all Indian nicknames. The one nearest Mt Pleasant endorsed the name early, and there wasn't made an issue about it.

For UND, the Spirit Lake held off on endorsing the nickname, which allowed other non-Sioux tribes to kick up a storm. Only when the Spirit Lake people voted 2 to 1 for the Sioux name, did the tribal council endorse it, but by then, the academics already had declared victory.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I still don't see how if the next closest Chippawa tribe makes a big stink about it and wants the name gone, that they wouldn't have lost exactly the same way UND lost.

Sounds like, from your post, that the other Chippawa tribes shut up after the closest tribe endorsed it.

As said before, Myles Brand had it in for Engelstad and his arena with a couple thousands Sioux logos emblem in granite and brass. If those wouldn't have made such an impression on the NCAA, UND would have skated by. Engelstad became a lightning rod for anti-Indian nicknames among the academic far left and Indian activists, as they saw it as a way to screw rich white men. Utah, Florida St, and CMU didn't have a visible donor that was did controversial things, like have Hitler memobilia and own Las Vegas casinos (never mind the Las Vegas mob hated him, he collected all WWII memobilia, including Stalins, Churchills, gave extensively you UNLV too, and was a huge donor to foundations for the blind and disabled).

(11-19-2015 06:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:45 PM)NoDak Wrote:  The Spirit Lake Sioux tribe, the closest to UND, voted to offer approval for perpetuity.

The NCAA had a double standard by requiring all Sioux tribes in ND to approve, but only one of nineteen for the CMU Chippewas in Michigan. The Standing Rock tribe didn't approve, didn't allow a vote, and most the reservation is in South Dakota but is administration capitol is in ND. That would be like Toledo deciding if Michigan retains the Buckeyes name. The Standing Rock tribe had formally given UND the name in 1967 for perpetuity in a sacred peace pipe ceremony, which the Sioux considered legally binding.

Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

In Central Michigan's case, there were Chippewa tribes that opposed all Indian nicknames. The one nearest Mt Pleasant endorsed the name early, and there wasn't made an issue about it.

For UND, the Spirit Lake held off on endorsing the nickname, which allowed other non-Sioux tribes to kick up a storm. Only when the Spirit Lake people voted 2 to 1 for the Sioux name, did the tribal council endorse it, but by then, the academics already had declared victory.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I still don't see how if the next closest Chippawa tribe makes a big stink about it and wants the name gone, that they wouldn't have lost exactly the same way UND lost.

Sounds like, from your post, that the other Chippawa tribes shut up after the closest tribe endorsed it.

As said before, Myles Brand had it in for Engelstad and his arena with a couple thousands Sioux logos emblem in granite and brass. If those wouldn't have made such an impression on the NCAA, UND would have skated by. Engelstad became a lightning rod for anti-Indian nicknames among the academic far left and Indian activists, as they saw it as a way to screw rich white men. Utah, Florida St, and CMU didn't have a visible donor that was did controversial things, like have Hitler memobilia and own Las Vegas casinos (never mind the Las Vegas mob hated him, he collected all WWII memobilia, including Stalins, Churchills, gave extensively you UNLV too, and was a huge donor to foundations for the blind and disabled).

Well that's lamentable, but I stand by what I said.

I don't see why CMU wouldn't have lost just like UND had lost, if the next closest Chippawa tribe in Michigan made the same level magnitude of stink about CMU that the Standing Rock Sioux made about UND.

For whatever reason, this apparently did not happen.

(11-20-2015 09:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 06:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:21 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 03:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 02:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Well, like I said - what UND's big problem was that you had a tribe that wanted a fight, for whatever reason.

Obviously the politics on that tribe changed quite a bit since 1967. Maybe if UND had been feeding them money since then, who knows?


I don't think in any of Utah, Florida St or C Michigan's cases, you had a local tribe that wanted to fight. At least, I didn't hear about it.

In Central Michigan's case, there were Chippewa tribes that opposed all Indian nicknames. The one nearest Mt Pleasant endorsed the name early, and there wasn't made an issue about it.

For UND, the Spirit Lake held off on endorsing the nickname, which allowed other non-Sioux tribes to kick up a storm. Only when the Spirit Lake people voted 2 to 1 for the Sioux name, did the tribal council endorse it, but by then, the academics already had declared victory.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

I still don't see how if the next closest Chippawa tribe makes a big stink about it and wants the name gone, that they wouldn't have lost exactly the same way UND lost.

Sounds like, from your post, that the other Chippawa tribes shut up after the closest tribe endorsed it.

As said before, Myles Brand had it in for Engelstad and his arena with a couple thousands Sioux logos emblem in granite and brass. If those wouldn't have made such an impression on the NCAA, UND would have skated by. Engelstad became a lightning rod for anti-Indian nicknames among the academic far left and Indian activists, as they saw it as a way to screw rich white men. Utah, Florida St, and CMU didn't have a visible donor that was did controversial things, like have Hitler memobilia and own Las Vegas casinos (never mind the Las Vegas mob hated him, he collected all WWII memobilia, including Stalins, Churchills, gave extensively you UNLV too, and was a huge donor to foundations for the blind and disabled).

Well that's lamentable, but I stand by what I said.

I don't see why CMU wouldn't have lost just like UND had lost, if the next closest Chippawa tribe in Michigan made the same level magnitude of stink about CMU that the Standing Rock Sioux made about UND.

For whatever reason, this apparently did not happen.

All the Sioux tribes outside of North Dakota, in Minnesota and South Dakota, made an incredible stink about the Sioux name. Minnesota is an intense rival in hockey and South Dakota schools are rivals in other sports. It would be like Wisconsin and Minnesota Chippewa protesting Michigan if it had the Chippewa name. The controversy and loss of the UND nickname greatly weakened sports, except hockey, for a time, as evident by NDSU rise in basketball and football, as they got almost all the good recruits in those sports. NDSU was a weakling basketball school in DII, while we were formerly strong regionally in every sport.

Having a state flagship nickname as an Indian tribe brings a lot more PC firepower to it than a directional school. Spirit Lake Sioux tribe bravely filed several suits against the NCAA, but the courts ruled they didn't have standing. The NCAA had argued formerly that Indian tribes should be heard, but neither UND admin or the NCAA would accept a meeting with the Spirit Lake Sioux. So much for natives being hears.

The new student mascot chant:

F'hawk

(11-19-2015 02:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-18-2015 04:55 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  The University of North Dakota has a new nickname, replacing “Fighting Sioux,” which the school retired three years ago.
Please welcome the North Dakota Fighting Hawks!

This royally sucks.

The vote was 57% Fighting Hawks and 43% Roughriders in the runoff. Supposedly, 80% of students wanted Fighting Hawks. 85% of the couple hundred fans on our UND message board wanted Roughriders. I am sure the uninformed alumni didn't vote so favorably for Roughriders.

The sudents wanted FH because they wouldn't lose the Fighting part of the name, still could yell Sioux rather than Hawks, a hawk logo that was the property of the Chicago Blackhawks was identified as cool (but people werent informed that it wont be used), HAWKS so sold as an acronym: How About We Keep Sioux.

So the trend that IndIan nicknames get replaced by birds, colors, or both (RedHawks) continues.

That's funny!

(11-19-2015 02:35 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 01:17 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-19-2015 01:08 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  Utah Utes get away with it. Also the William & Mary Tribe, although there's no feather in their logo anymore. Iowa Hawkeyes were once considered an American Indian mascot, although they're apparently now just hawk's eyes.

James Fenimore Cooper wants to talk to you about those Hawkeyes.

Cooper's Hawkeye character was caucasian.

So was Alan Alda. But the original Hawkeye was the adopted son of a Mohican.