(10-13-2015 12:50 PM)ragin4u Wrote:  I am sure that UL fans understand all of this just fine. The point that sticks out for me and remember, I'm a homer, is that it looks like this coach conspired with someone at the testing center to change ACT scores. On the surface, the university does not appear to be culpable unless the NCAA finds that the staff SHOULD have been aware of what had happened even if neither the NCAA nor ACT were aware of any problems.

The question now is can the coaching staff and university adm show cause for not being aware that something like this was going on for a certain amount of time. I am not knocking on ULL here because this stuff happens, but it is usually more than a lone wolf coach doing improper things. Head Coaches are usually found to be at fault for allowing the leeway to be given to an assistant coach for such an act. The NCAA frowns upon the whole "See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil" approach Coach's often use with their staff. That being said, if this guy was "manufacturing" top notch recruits for ULL with his system and the staff just figured he was really really good, then thats another story. Who here on this board figured a coach would have enough pull to "fix" ACT scores??

(10-13-2015 01:22 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  The question now is can the coaching staff and university adm show cause for not being aware that something like this was going on for a certain amount of time. I am not knocking on ULL here because this stuff happens, but it is usually more than a lone wolf coach doing improper things. Head Coaches are usually found to be at fault for allowing the leeway to be given to an assistant coach for such an act. The NCAA frowns upon the whole "See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil" approach Coach's often use with their staff. That being said, if this guy was "manufacturing" top notch recruits for ULL with his system and the staff just figured he was really really good, then thats another story. Who here on this board figured a coach would have enough pull to "fix" ACT scores??

Based on a ruling by the NCAA in 2013, ignorance is no longer an acceptable defense for head coaches to use.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/1659413/

(10-13-2015 12:50 PM)ragin4u Wrote:  I am sure that UL fans understand all of this just fine. The point that sticks out for me and remember, I'm a homer, is that it looks like this coach conspired with someone at the testing center to change ACT scores. On the surface, the university does not appear to be culpable unless the NCAA finds that the staff SHOULD have been aware of what had happened even if neither the NCAA nor ACT were aware of any problems.

What's the point in blaming ACT for this? A representative of your university colluded with a representative of ACT to commit fraud. ACT never agreed to abide by NCAA rule but the university did. ACT serves more than just football players and they dealt with their side per their rules.

(10-13-2015 01:37 PM)TechAlum05 Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 01:22 PM)pilot172000 Wrote:  The question now is can the coaching staff and university adm show cause for not being aware that something like this was going on for a certain amount of time. I am not knocking on ULL here because this stuff happens, but it is usually more than a lone wolf coach doing improper things. Head Coaches are usually found to be at fault for allowing the leeway to be given to an assistant coach for such an act. The NCAA frowns upon the whole "See no evil, Hear no evil, Speak no evil" approach Coach's often use with their staff. That being said, if this guy was "manufacturing" top notch recruits for ULL with his system and the staff just figured he was really really good, then thats another story. Who here on this board figured a coach would have enough pull to "fix" ACT scores??

Based on a ruling by the NCAA in 2013, ignorance is no longer an acceptable defense for head coaches to use.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...s/1659413/

While ignorance is not an acceptable defense, there is a limit on that as well. If this guy found ways to shield his activity from the school and coach and they can prove it...well thats a different story

(10-13-2015 12:50 PM)ragin4u Wrote:  I am sure that UL fans understand all of this just fine. The point that sticks out for me and remember, I'm a homer, is that it looks like this coach conspired with someone at the testing center to change ACT scores. On the surface, the university does not appear to be culpable unless the NCAA finds that the staff SHOULD have been aware of what had happened even if neither the NCAA nor ACT were aware of any problems.

1. The ULL assistant coach conspired with an ACT administrator for at least two and a half years to get six football recruits fraudulent ACT exam score so that they could attend the university and play on the ULL football team.
2. Based on the NCAA Notice of Allegations and the university's response, it looks like one assistant coach (Saunders) definitely told recruits to take exams at the Wayne County locations while another assistant (Tim Rebowe) might have been involved along with Saunders with another recruit taking the exam at Wayne County. At least one (and possibly two) members of the ULL football staff were well involved in what happened with the ACT fraud over a period of two and a half years. Those staff members were aware of what happened because they were active participants in it.
3. So, if the ACT and NCAA were not aware of any problems, the university should be blameless for what happened?
   

(10-12-2015 09:22 PM)TechAlum05 Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 07:53 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 07:46 PM)zharkins Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 07:36 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  Glass house my La Tech friends. Carlos Henderson received $30k indirectly from his pastor to attend La Tech.

Well that's the word on the street anyway.

Hahaha. So sad. Get caught with your pants down and start silly rumors about one of our players. If there was any shred of truth to that, people at ULL or ULM would do anything to get the NCAA in on it and we would be in the news, not Lafayette.

Yep we hired a guy who fixed ACT scores. He did it so well that the NCAA and ACT testing center had no clue.

No on campus violations were found nor were we accused of any. We will get hammered, no doubt about it. But to my knowledge 2012, 2013 and 2014 seasons had any player implicated in the allegations.

We were also not the primary target, Ole Miss was and we unknowingly got caught up in it by hiring Saunders.

Actually, according to page 76 (D-17) of UL-Lafayette's response to the NCAA, the university chose not to vacate contests in which one of the student-athletes competed in nine games during one season. Since the 2011 season was vacated, this means that this has to be another season (2012, 2013, or 2014).

In another case, another student-athlete competed during the 2012 season. The university acknowledged that if a violation was determined to have occurred with his ACT score, then the games he competed in would also be subject to vacation.

The 2012 student was an enrollee and full qualifier at Ole Miss. Started several games as a true freshman at Ole Miss before being dismissed from the program. His ACT score counts against Ole Miss not the Cajuns. He came to UL via JUCO.

(10-12-2015 10:53 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(10-12-2015 10:28 PM)TechAlum05 Wrote:  If the university got a player into their football program using fraudulent ACT scores, should the university receive the benefits of victories involving that player's participation even if that player eventually "qualified"? I believe the NCAA would nip that in the bud to prevent the possibility of a precedent being set in cases like that.

That's a good point. Set out on that slippery slope, and someday you could even see a university conducting fraudulent classes. That would probably result in not just the athletic program, but the entire university being shut down. What other choice would the university's governing body, state government (if a public institution) and accrediting agencies have? Not that I really imagine anyone could be so unabashedly corrupt as to do something like that, but there are a handful of people whose depravity knows no limit. ULL must be punished severely or else 20 years from now we might even see multiple fake classes offered by some desperate, lower-tier university.

That is exactly what Notth Carolina has done. Fraudulent courses on campus. As far as the poster who asked if we could take Ole Miss down, I sure hope so since they are the reason we were even made aware of this. All of our infractions were discovered through the NCAA's investigation of Ole Miss. We were unaware of any wrong doings until we were notified. Once notified we suspended Saunders from any recruiting or coaches duties until we could begin an investigation. Once he refused to talk he was let go.

Also there is several testing sites that do this from what I am hearing. This NCAA investigation is very broad an may involve many programs in the south.

(10-13-2015 01:51 PM)TechAlum05 Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 12:50 PM)ragin4u Wrote:  I am sure that UL fans understand all of this just fine. The point that sticks out for me and remember, I'm a homer, is that it looks like this coach conspired with someone at the testing center to change ACT scores. On the surface, the university does not appear to be culpable unless the NCAA finds that the staff SHOULD have been aware of what had happened even if neither the NCAA nor ACT were aware of any problems.

1. The ULL assistant coach conspired with an ACT administrator for at least two and a half years to get six football recruits fraudulent ACT exam score so that they could attend the university and play on the ULL football team.
2. Based on the NCAA Notice of Allegations and the university's response, it looks like one assistant coach (Saunders) definitely told recruits to take exams at the Wayne County locations while another assistant (Tim Rebowe) might have been involved along with Saunders with another recruit taking the exam at Wayne County. At least one (and possibly two) members of the ULL football staff were well involved in what happened with the ACT fraud over a period of two and a half years. Those staff members were aware of what happened because they were active participants in it.
3. So, if the ACT and NCAA were not aware of any problems, the university should be blameless for what happened?
   

Be careful throwing out Rebowe's name in this. He is not named in the investigation, also Jaluke has been rumored to run in the same circles as Rebowe.

I know you want to see the Cajuns get the death penalty, lack of institutional control and never have to hear about us again. But this investigation will uncover more than any college recruiter will admit.

As far as UL's Compliance Office was concerned, if a perspective student attains a qualifying ACT score certified by the ACT and NCAA Clearing House who are they to question the validity of the score?

Some of y'all are acting as if Dr Joe Savois directed the coaches to do this. This practice by Saunders was perfected while at an SEC program and there are more than one crooked testing center according to a few people I know who are active on the recruiting game.

We hired a shady coach in David Saunders, we will get severely punished for it. We did not know he was fixing ACT scores, who even thought that was possible?

The defense of Hud didn't know is ridiculous,

1994 - Hud and Saunders coached together at Nicholls State
09/10 Hud was at Miss State and Saunders was the Recruiting Admin at Ole Miss
2011 Hud hired at ULL brings in Saunders from Ole Miss as CB coach and Head of Recruiting

If you don't believe Hud knew what Saunders was doing then I've got a bridge to sell you in Arizona...

(10-13-2015 03:14 PM)Germdawg Wrote:  The defense of Hud didn't know is ridiculous,

1994 - Hud and Saunders coached together at Nicholls State
09/10 Hud was at Miss State and Saunders was the Recruiting Admin at Ole Miss
2011 Hud hired at ULL brings in Saunders from Ole Miss as CB coach and Head of Recruiting

If you don't believe Hud knew what Saunders was doing then I've got a bridge to sell you in Arizona...

If Hud is found to have knowledge of it so be it. He will be terminated with cause and we will hire a new staff. Hid is making $1.1 per year, it won't be hard to find a good replacement for even 2/3rds of that amount.

(10-13-2015 03:14 PM)Germdawg Wrote:  The defense of Hud didn't know is ridiculous,

1994 - Hud and Saunders coached together at Nicholls State
09/10 Hud was at Miss State and Saunders was the Recruiting Admin at Ole Miss
2011 Hud hired at ULL brings in Saunders from Ole Miss as CB coach and Head of Recruiting

If you don't believe Hud knew what Saunders was doing then I've got a bridge to sell you in Arizona...

So, despite having zero factual evidence, you have no problem condemning him for this. Of course, the NCAA itself which has conducted an extensive review into the whole thing has declared that he is innocent....not that that matters to someone like you.

What's really sickening in all this glee and joy that you are displaying here and on the ltur board is that you live and work in Lafayette....so you know more than others the effect that this is having on the community. Have you been sharing all your happiness about this with your boss and co-workers???

Ginny has had a history of very shady sounding stories. I bet she pocketed lots and lots of money for this type of stuff...probably most of it from Ole Miss.

http://archive.sltrib.com/printfriendly....ype=NGPSID

http://www.ducksouth.com/phpbb/viewtopic...4&start=30

"Crager said Powe isn't the first player she's tried to help get into college. She has helped numerous others, including former Mississippi State player Willie Evans increase their ACT scores. "

(10-13-2015 03:35 PM)LAcajuns_fan Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 03:14 PM)Germdawg Wrote:  The defense of Hud didn't know is ridiculous,

1994 - Hud and Saunders coached together at Nicholls State
09/10 Hud was at Miss State and Saunders was the Recruiting Admin at Ole Miss
2011 Hud hired at ULL brings in Saunders from Ole Miss as CB coach and Head of Recruiting

If you don't believe Hud knew what Saunders was doing then I've got a bridge to sell you in Arizona...

So, despite having zero factual evidence, you have no problem condemning him for this. Of course, the NCAA itself which has conducted an extensive review into this has declared that he is innocent....not that that matters to someone like you.

What's really sickening in all this glee and joy that you are displaying here and on the ltur board is that you live and work in Lafayette....so you know more than others the effect that this is having on the community. Have you been sharing all your happiness about this with your boss and co-workers???

No real effect on the community beside ULL fans having heart burn. I wouldn't say glee and joy, maybe schadenfreude. And yes I have shared it, my boss is an LSU grad, 4 co-workers who are ULL grads say it sucks but haven't been distressed about it. Lafayette does not revolve around ULL... Ya'll could go FBS tomorrow and would be limited ripples...

(10-13-2015 03:54 PM)Germdawg Wrote:  Ya'll could go FBS tomorrow and would be limited ripples...

It doesn't seem like it, but the Sunbelt is FBS.

(10-13-2015 03:35 PM)LAcajuns_fan Wrote:  So, despite having zero factual evidence, you have no problem condemning him for this. Of course, the NCAA itself which has conducted an extensive review into the whole thing has declared that he is innocent....not that that matters to someone like you.

What's really sickening in all this glee and joy that you are displaying here and on the ltur board is that you live and work in Lafayette....so you know more than others the effect that this is having on the community. Have you been sharing all your happiness about this with your boss and co-workers???

How so??? I would like to know.

2011 in the Lafayette newspaper- "David Saunders, who worked at Ole Miss on three occasions, has filed a notice of claim, seeking $250,000. Saunders, now the linebackers coach at UL, says coach Houston Nutt wanted to hire him full-time but athletic director Pete Boone denied him employment because of Saunders' work helping athletes with learning disabilities be admitted to the school."

http://www.raginpagin.com/louisiana/show...ed-in-suit

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/files/...dacted.pdf

How did this not raise questions? People don't think Hudspeth knew this guy was suing Ole Miss for allegedly letting him go for his involvement trying to get players with learning disabilities or low grades in school? As a head coach, you wouldn't do some serious background digging before signing up this coach?

(10-13-2015 03:54 PM)Germdawg Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 03:35 PM)LAcajuns_fan Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 03:14 PM)Germdawg Wrote:  The defense of Hud didn't know is ridiculous,

1994 - Hud and Saunders coached together at Nicholls State
09/10 Hud was at Miss State and Saunders was the Recruiting Admin at Ole Miss
2011 Hud hired at ULL brings in Saunders from Ole Miss as CB coach and Head of Recruiting

If you don't believe Hud knew what Saunders was doing then I've got a bridge to sell you in Arizona...

So, despite having zero factual evidence, you have no problem condemning him for this. Of course, the NCAA itself which has conducted an extensive review into this has declared that he is innocent....not that that matters to someone like you.

What's really sickening in all this glee and joy that you are displaying here and on the ltur board is that you live and work in Lafayette....so you know more than others the effect that this is having on the community. Have you been sharing all your happiness about this with your boss and co-workers???

No real effect on the community beside ULL fans having heart burn. I wouldn't say glee and joy, maybe schadenfreude. And yes I have shared it, my boss is an LSU grad, 4 co-workers who are ULL grads say it sucks but haven't been distressed about it. Lafayette does not revolve around ULL... Ya'll could go FBS tomorrow and would be limited ripples...

what a crock. you know that UL and this issue is a big deal in Lafayette. Our athletic budget alone is proof of that....not your biased opinions.
And you answer the Hud part: any facts to back up your claims that he is guilty??

(10-13-2015 04:23 PM)zharkins Wrote:  2011 in the Lafayette newspaper- "David Saunders, who worked at Ole Miss on three occasions, has filed a notice of claim, seeking $250,000. Saunders, now the linebackers coach at UL, says coach Houston Nutt wanted to hire him full-time but athletic director Pete Boone denied him employment because of Saunders' work helping athletes with learning disabilities be admitted to the school."

http://www.raginpagin.com/louisiana/show...ed-in-suit

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/files/...dacted.pdf

How did this not raise questions? People don't think Hudspeth knew this guy was suing Ole Miss for allegedly letting him go for his involvement trying to get players with learning disabilities or low grades in school? As a head coach, you wouldn't do some serious background digging before signing up this coach?

Again: have any of you actually read the ncaa findings, and the UL response?? Both are very clear that Hud was not aware of what was happening. If you have any facts to back up your accusations please share them with us.

(10-13-2015 04:23 PM)zharkins Wrote:  "David Saunders, who worked at Ole Miss on three occasions, has filed a notice of claim, seeking $250,000. Saunders, now the linebackers coach at UL, says coach Houston Nutt wanted to hire him full-time but athletic director Pete Boone denied him employment because of Saunders' work helping athletes with learning disabilities be admitted to the school."

http://www.raginpagin.com/louisiana/show...ed-in-suit

http://blogs.clarionledger.com/um/files/...dacted.pdf

How did this not raise questions? People don't think Hudspeth knew this guy was suing Ole Miss for allegedly letting him go for his involvement trying to get players with learning disabilities or low grades in school? As a head coach, you wouldn't do some serious background digging before signing up this coach?

They were buds back in the Nicholls State days. Hud hired two guys who he knew during that era (Saunders and Mitch Rodrigue). Also, Brad Villavaso (fired HC at Vandebilt HS that coached Elijah McGuire) was on staff during that time.

Elijah went from a 16 (reported by scouts) to a 22 on his ACT. Need to verify where he took his test. Was it in Houma or at that Mississippi site? Villavaso had connection with ULL's coaching staff like Saunders.

http://www.athleticnetwork.net/site.php?...wsID=15103

(10-13-2015 04:44 PM)LAcajuns_fan Wrote:  Again: have any of you actually read the ncaa findings, and the UL response?? Both are very clear that Hud was not aware of what was happening. If you have any facts to back up your accusations please share them with us.

I'm not saying he was aware. I'm saying his lawsuit against Ole Miss should have raised some red flags. What he claimed to be denied employment for at Ole Miss is a slippery slope, especially with the NCAA. Especially with the history of the BYU online classes being completed in just a few days by a kid that couldn't read, and those not being allowed by the NCAA. That was what lead to the lawsuit.