LOL, waste of a thread now, even in parody.

(10-11-2015 12:31 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  LOL, waste of a thread now, even in parody.

Yeah, I hung in earlier, but when I get see mention of schools I was getting mail from when I was a HS senior...hey, no mention of Trinity Western U?

Guys, the problem with moving the Big Sky schools up is that not all of them are able to move up because of Money and not enough seats for their stadium to qualify for FBS. The ones who can move will leave a lack of teams on the west coast for FCS for the other teams that can't move up.

(10-11-2015 07:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, the problem with moving the Big Sky schools up is that not all of them are able to move up because of Money and not enough seats for their stadium to qualify for FBS. The ones who can move will leave a lack of teams on the west coast for FCS for the other teams that can't move up.

So you keep wanting these schools to become FBS, yet now finally acknowledge money is an issue?

(10-11-2015 07:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Guys, the problem with moving the Big Sky schools up is that not all of them are able to move up because of Money and not enough seats for their stadium to qualify for FBS. The ones who can move will leave a lack of teams on the west coast for FCS for the other teams that can't move up.

Stated numerous times here.

The Big Sky teams seriously interested in FBS are:

Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac St
PORTLAND St
E Wash
IDAHO
Montana
Mont St
UND

Throw in NMSU, NDSU, SDSU, and USD. Not saying all will follow through at this time, but they are planning a move soon.

All of them have plans and even contingency plans for stadium expansion and going to 16 sports, if not already there.

Other Big Sky teams, NAU, SUU, Weber, Idaho St, and N Colo don't show the resolve and don't have the finances to go FBS. Easier for them to move to the WAC and get a few FCS teams to move up from DII (Dixie St and Azusa Pacific) and maybe San Diego will fund some football schollies.

Portland St two wins over FBS teams this year may be a game changer for that program, as some wanted to drop it. With Wazzu's win over Oregon, PSU has rightful claims to being the best team in the state.

If you want another western FBS conference, Karl Benson will have to recreate the WAC via the Sun Belt:

2017 - Portland State and North Dakota State join the WAC, play first FBS transitional season as FCS independent
2018 - NMSU, Idaho go FBS independent; Portland State, North Dakota State join Sun Belt for football only (bowl eligible in 2019)
2019 - North Dakota and South Dakota State play first FBS transitional season as FCS independent; move other sports to the WAC; Chicago State and UMKC replace them in the Summit League
2020 - Portland State, North Dakota State go FBS independent; North Dakota and South Dakota State join the Sun Belt for football only (bowl eligible in 2021)
2021 - Montana and Montana State play first FBS transitional season as FCS independent; move other sports to the WAC; Bakersfield and Utah Valley replace them in the Big Sky
2022 - Montana and Montana State football join the Sun Belt (bowl eligible in 2023) North Dakota and South Dakota State go FBS independent
2024 - Montana and Montana State football leave Sun Belt, join WAC:

Seattle (no football)/Portland State
Idaho/South Dakota State
Montana/Montana State
North Dakota/North Dakota State
New Mexico State/UTRGV (no football)

The WAC then looks to add from FCS - one from the Central Time Zone, and one from the Pacific Time Zone - as it transitions towards divisional play. If Seattle and UTRGV can move to non-FBS conferences (or start football), it allows the WAC to go to 12 members and create sensible divisions.

I read the Montana AD's report on FBS a long time ago. One of the biggest pro-FBS factors was perceived peer grouping. UM wasn't seen as a peer of U-Utah, Washington STate, Washington, Colorado, Oregon, O-STate etc. They were seen as grouped with their directional Big Sky brethren.

FBS is a nearly-insurmountable obstacle. But academic snobbery is powerful, and there's room for an FCS "Great Northern" conference with Montana, Montana State, Idaho STate, NDSU, UND, USD, SDSU plus possible spots for Portland STate, Sacramento State, IDaho and NMSU if they drop down. Flagships and land-grants and major city state schools. No directionals, no D-2 callups, probably no Cal State--Riverdales or UC-Springfields.

(10-11-2015 11:00 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  If you want another western FBS conference, Karl Benson will have to recreate the WAC via the Sun Belt:

2017 - Portland State and North Dakota State join the WAC, play first FBS transitional season as FCS independent
2018 - NMSU, Idaho go FBS independent; Portland State, North Dakota State join Sun Belt for football only (bowl eligible in 2019)
2019 - North Dakota and South Dakota State play first FBS transitional season as FCS independent; move other sports to the WAC; Chicago State and UMKC replace them in the Summit League
2020 - Portland State, North Dakota State go FBS independent; North Dakota and South Dakota State join the Sun Belt for football only (bowl eligible in 2021)
2021 - Montana and Montana State play first FBS transitional season as FCS independent; move other sports to the WAC; Bakersfield and Utah Valley replace them in the Big Sky
2022 - Montana and Montana State football join the Sun Belt (bowl eligible in 2023) North Dakota and South Dakota State go FBS independent
2024 - Montana and Montana State football leave Sun Belt, join WAC:

Seattle (no football)/Portland State
Idaho/South Dakota State
Montana/Montana State
North Dakota/North Dakota State
New Mexico State/UTRGV (no football)

The WAC then looks to add from FCS - one from the Central Time Zone, and one from the Pacific Time Zone - as it transitions towards divisional play. If Seattle and UTRGV can move to non-FBS conferences (or start football), it allows the WAC to go to 12 members and create sensible divisions.

The WAC has no rights to FBS football anymore.

If the Sun Belt wanted to make some extra money, they could charge fees for new FBS teams from the Big SKY and later birth a new league.

(10-11-2015 11:12 AM)NoDak Wrote:  The WAC has no rights to FBS football anymore.

If the Sun Belt wanted to make some extra money, they could charge fees for new FBS teams from the Big SKY and later birth a new league.

I don't think you understood my post-the Sun Belt is doing the transitioning, not the WAC. It could theoretically work with any non-football or FCS conference, but the WAC is better set up for it in that it has no FCS programs that would still need a FCS home after creation of the FBS conference. The WAC also has a number of non-football schools that will leave given the first decent opportunity, which allows it to absorb all the new members.

By 2024, the WAC would be a FBS conference by virtue of it having eight existing FBS programs, all of whom previously played in the Sun Belt, but only two of whom are directly joining from the Sun Belt-the other six will have been independent for at least two seasons. If you want to make the Big Sky FBS, you could do the same, but it would grow beyond 12 members unless if you limit the expansion candidates to current members of the conference, which at the moment, excludes New Mexico State. If the Big Sky picks up a school from the Summit League, that likely means the Big Sky would grow to 14, and there would still be 6 FCS members by the time it would hit 8 FBS members.

Only way NDSU or Montana are joining the FBS in the next 10 years is as an independent, and neither will receive any money from the CFP during that time.

NCAA currently doesn't allow FCS teams to move up to FBS as independents. Could that change? Maybe. But I don't see anything in motion, right now.

If the big sky were serious about getting enough team to join fbs it would first need to get nmsu in its conference like idaho. Then it would have to petition the ncaa to allow the 6 interested schools to upgrade. These schools would have to be full big sky members so lets assume they would be Montana, Montana St, Sacramento St, North Dakota, Portland St, and Eastern Washington. Also the big sky would have to set up a separate fcs footbal only conference for its fcs programs a la the Missouri Valley. Thats a lot of work to do and bureaucratic hurdles to overcome with absolutely no guarantee to be apart of the CFP structure.

If you notice the big sky to fbs talk has really cooled down after springing up in 2014

(10-11-2015 02:44 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the big sky were serious about getting enough team to join fbs it would first need to get nmsu in its conference like idaho. Then it would have to petition the ncaa to allow the 6 interested schools to upgrade. These schools would have to be full big sky members so lets assume they would be Montana, Montana St, Sacramento St, North Dakota, Portland St, and Eastern Washington. Also the big sky would have to set up a separate fcs footbal only conference for its fcs programs a la the Missouri Valley. Thats a lot of work to do and bureaucratic hurdles to overcome with absolutely no guarantee to be apart of the CFP structure.

If you notice the big sky to fbs talk has really cooled down after springing up in 2014

The only place Big Sky FBS talk has goNE down is message boards. It's still as real as ever. The NCAA has to act first, which it in the process of doing.

Any CFP cut will have to wait.

It also doesn't help that Karl Benson, the former WAC Commissioner, is now Commissioner of the Sun Belt. I'd imagine there is no willingness to work together between him and Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton.

(10-11-2015 04:22 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-11-2015 02:44 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the big sky were serious about getting enough team to join fbs it would first need to get nmsu in its conference like idaho. Then it would have to petition the ncaa to allow the 6 interested schools to upgrade. These schools would have to be full big sky members so lets assume they would be Montana, Montana St, Sacramento St, North Dakota, Portland St, and Eastern Washington. Also the big sky would have to set up a separate fcs footbal only conference for its fcs programs a la the Missouri Valley. Thats a lot of work to do and bureaucratic hurdles to overcome with absolutely no guarantee to be apart of the CFP structure.

If you notice the big sky to fbs talk has really cooled down after springing up in 2014

The only place Big Sky FBS talk has goNE down is message boards. It's still as real as ever. The NCAA has to act first, which it in the process of doing.

Any CFP cut will have to wait.

There is no current NCAA process, council or even discussion about changing FBS rules to allow more teams or conferences in the subdivision.

(10-11-2015 02:44 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the big sky were serious about getting enough team to join fbs it would first need to get nmsu in its conference like idaho. Then it would have to petition the ncaa to allow the 6 interested schools to upgrade. These schools would have to be full big sky members so lets assume they would be Montana, Montana St, Sacramento St, North Dakota, Portland St, and Eastern Washington. Also the big sky would have to set up a separate fcs footbal only conference for its fcs programs a la the Missouri Valley. Thats a lot of work to do and bureaucratic hurdles to overcome with absolutely no guarantee to be apart of the CFP structure.

If you notice the big sky to fbs talk has really cooled down after springing up in 2014

The Big Sky schools that could make the move if the rules loosen up are:
Eastern Washington
Portland State
Montana
Montana State
Cal-Davis
Sacramento State
Cal-Poly
North Dakota

Than with Idaho and New Mexico State makes 10. Where can they get another 2 if MVFC wants to move up as a whole as well?
The two conferences could create 2 more bowls between Big Sky winner vs MVFC winner and Big Sky and MVFC second place.

MVFC:
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
South Dakota
Western Illinois
Illinois State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
Youngstown State

Now, which schools that could fill the spots in both conferences to make it 12?

Lamar
Sam Houston State
SFA
McNeese State
Eastern Kentucky
Azusa Pacific
West Texas A&M
Grand Canyon (if they add football)
UTRGV (could add football)
Washburn
Wichita State
Wayne State, Mich.
Eastern Illinois
Jacksonville State
U. Mass.
Delaware
James Madison
Alabama State
Liberty
Delaware State
Stony Brook
Malone
Walsh
Minnesota State-Mankato
Malone and Walsh both have over a 20,000 seat stadiums.

The NCAA will not change the rule requiring a school to get an invite from an FBS conference(or moving up to DI for that matter). Montana and NDSU are stuck where they are.

(10-11-2015 05:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-11-2015 04:22 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-11-2015 02:44 PM)solohawks Wrote:  If the big sky were serious about getting enough team to join fbs it would first need to get nmsu in its conference like idaho. Then it would have to petition the ncaa to allow the 6 interested schools to upgrade. These schools would have to be full big sky members so lets assume they would be Montana, Montana St, Sacramento St, North Dakota, Portland St, and Eastern Washington. Also the big sky would have to set up a separate fcs footbal only conference for its fcs programs a la the Missouri Valley. Thats a lot of work to do and bureaucratic hurdles to overcome with absolutely no guarantee to be apart of the CFP structure.

If you notice the big sky to fbs talk has really cooled down after springing up in 2014

The only place Big Sky FBS talk has goNE down is message boards. It's still as real as ever. The NCAA has to act first, which it in the process of doing.

Any CFP cut will have to wait.

There is no current NCAA process, council or even discussion about changing FBS rules to allow more teams or conferences in the subdivision.

Thanks for the report directly from an NCAA council member. It's nice to know how plugged in this board is.