(08-27-2015 04:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

Actually, I think I'd rather fly Spirit than United. Not really, but close.

If the legacy carriers try to reap extraordinary profits in this period of low crude prices by keeping capacity constrained, prices higher than they should be, and service levels low... they're seeding their own demise.

Keeping capacity and prices constrained will encourage new entrants (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will enter that market. When prices rise (as they will - eventually), the new entrants will probably have a much more competitive cost structure than the legacy carriers. If its about price only - then I see no reason to not fly Spirit or Frontier.

I'm a pretty active business traveler. I've finally said "enough" to chasing status at United (I'm not alone - there's a lot of us) recently. The model of gaining loyalty by rewarding your best travelers only works if you actually reward them. And at least at United, it ain't happening anymore.

I'm really enjoying the entrance of Ultra Low Cost Carriers and Low Cost Business Class Carriers on Trans Atlantic Routes. I'll be trying two of them out next week (La Compagnie - an all business class carrier with really affordable bus class fares between Newark and Paris and a low cost carrier on the return - Wow Air out of Iceland). In 5 years, business travellers might be all flying La Compaigne type flights and all the coach travellers might gravitate to Norwegian. And then the legacies will only be able to get 2000 a RT for a business class ticket rather than 5000.

By the way, out of Houston, the airline that is crushing everyone else with the super low pricing isn't Emirates or Qatar...but Turkish.

All I can say is that Legacy US carriers have legacy costs that can't be wholly discharged through bankruptcy and mergers. So new, low cost carriers have a little more financial flexibility that United, AA and Delta. Again, if you're a frequent flier who routinely travels longer than 3 hours on a given flight, I can understand your lament. Just so long as you appreciate that such customers no longer make up a majority of the customer base. Service has regressed to the mean; if the plane offers power ports and wi-fi, most passengers will suffer through the cramped conditions and lack of attentive, courteous flight staff.

(08-27-2015 08:15 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

Actually, I think I'd rather fly Spirit than United. Not really, but close.

If the legacy carriers try to reap extraordinary profits in this period of low crude prices by keeping capacity constrained, prices higher than they should be, and service levels low... they're seeding their own demise.

Keeping capacity and prices constrained will encourage new entrants (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will enter that market. When prices rise (as they will - eventually), the new entrants will probably have a much more competitive cost structure than the legacy carriers. If its about price only - then I see no reason to not fly Spirit or Frontier.

I'm a pretty active business traveler. I've finally said "enough" to chasing status at United (I'm not alone - there's a lot of us) recently. The model of gaining loyalty by rewarding your best travelers only works if you actually reward them. And at least at United, it ain't happening anymore.

I'm really enjoying the entrance of Ultra Low Cost Carriers and Low Cost Business Class Carriers on Trans Atlantic Routes. I'll be trying two of them out next week (La Compagnie - an all business class carrier with really affordable bus class fares between Newark and Paris and a low cost carrier on the return - Wow Air out of Iceland). In 5 years, business travellers might be all flying La Compaigne type flights and all the coach travellers might gravitate to Norwegian. And then the legacies will only be able to get 2000 a RT for a business class ticket rather than 5000.

By the way, out of Houston, the airline that is crushing everyone else with the super low pricing isn't Emirates or Qatar...but Turkish.

All I can say is that Legacy US carriers have legacy costs that can't be wholly discharged through bankruptcy and mergers. So new, low cost carriers have a little more financial flexibility that United, AA and Delta. Again, if you're a frequent flier who routinely travels longer than 3 hours on a given flight, I can understand your lament. Just so long as you appreciate that such customers no longer make up a majority of the customer base. Service has regressed to the mean; if the plane offers power ports and wi-fi, most passengers will suffer through the cramped conditions and lack of attentive, courteous flight staff.

I flew Southwest a few weeks back. It was really obvious which flight attendants were originally SW and which were Air-Trans. The Air-Trans were almost as grumpy as Delta attendants.

(08-27-2015 08:15 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

Actually, I think I'd rather fly Spirit than United. Not really, but close.

If the legacy carriers try to reap extraordinary profits in this period of low crude prices by keeping capacity constrained, prices higher than they should be, and service levels low... they're seeding their own demise.

Keeping capacity and prices constrained will encourage new entrants (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will enter that market. When prices rise (as they will - eventually), the new entrants will probably have a much more competitive cost structure than the legacy carriers. If its about price only - then I see no reason to not fly Spirit or Frontier.

I'm a pretty active business traveler. I've finally said "enough" to chasing status at United (I'm not alone - there's a lot of us) recently. The model of gaining loyalty by rewarding your best travelers only works if you actually reward them. And at least at United, it ain't happening anymore.

I'm really enjoying the entrance of Ultra Low Cost Carriers and Low Cost Business Class Carriers on Trans Atlantic Routes. I'll be trying two of them out next week (La Compagnie - an all business class carrier with really affordable bus class fares between Newark and Paris and a low cost carrier on the return - Wow Air out of Iceland). In 5 years, business travellers might be all flying La Compaigne type flights and all the coach travellers might gravitate to Norwegian. And then the legacies will only be able to get 2000 a RT for a business class ticket rather than 5000.

By the way, out of Houston, the airline that is crushing everyone else with the super low pricing isn't Emirates or Qatar...but Turkish.

All I can say is that Legacy US carriers have legacy costs that can't be wholly discharged through bankruptcy and mergers. So new, low cost carriers have a little more financial flexibility that United, AA and Delta. Again, if you're a frequent flier who routinely travels longer than 3 hours on a given flight, I can understand your lament. Just so long as you appreciate that such customers no longer make up a majority of the customer base. Service has regressed to the mean; if the plane offers power ports and wi-fi, most passengers will suffer through the cramped conditions and lack of attentive, courteous flight staff.

Service at the legacy carriers have regressed to the low cost level. Delta's frequent flyer miles are pretty close to worthless. United's will probably go the same route in the next year.

The only benefit from being an elite on United...getting premium economy free on transoceanic routes.

But when I can travel business class to Europe for 1500 bucks RT, I'm not going to fly in the back.

TSA Pre Check/NEXUS gets me past the security line
25 bucks gets my bag checked (0 on Southwest)
25-50 bucks gets me the best seat on the plane on a lcc (0 on SW)

And United/Delta/American are much more expensive than anyone else.

US Air was the strange one. Highly substandard business class on their transAtlantic fleet. Bad route structure. But they were less expensive. My guess is that they'll combine American pricing, American service, US Air equipment for a total F U to the American elites.

(08-27-2015 08:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 08:15 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

Actually, I think I'd rather fly Spirit than United. Not really, but close.

If the legacy carriers try to reap extraordinary profits in this period of low crude prices by keeping capacity constrained, prices higher than they should be, and service levels low... they're seeding their own demise.

Keeping capacity and prices constrained will encourage new entrants (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will enter that market. When prices rise (as they will - eventually), the new entrants will probably have a much more competitive cost structure than the legacy carriers. If its about price only - then I see no reason to not fly Spirit or Frontier.

I'm a pretty active business traveler. I've finally said "enough" to chasing status at United (I'm not alone - there's a lot of us) recently. The model of gaining loyalty by rewarding your best travelers only works if you actually reward them. And at least at United, it ain't happening anymore.

I'm really enjoying the entrance of Ultra Low Cost Carriers and Low Cost Business Class Carriers on Trans Atlantic Routes. I'll be trying two of them out next week (La Compagnie - an all business class carrier with really affordable bus class fares between Newark and Paris and a low cost carrier on the return - Wow Air out of Iceland). In 5 years, business travellers might be all flying La Compaigne type flights and all the coach travellers might gravitate to Norwegian. And then the legacies will only be able to get 2000 a RT for a business class ticket rather than 5000.

By the way, out of Houston, the airline that is crushing everyone else with the super low pricing isn't Emirates or Qatar...but Turkish.

All I can say is that Legacy US carriers have legacy costs that can't be wholly discharged through bankruptcy and mergers. So new, low cost carriers have a little more financial flexibility that United, AA and Delta. Again, if you're a frequent flier who routinely travels longer than 3 hours on a given flight, I can understand your lament. Just so long as you appreciate that such customers no longer make up a majority of the customer base. Service has regressed to the mean; if the plane offers power ports and wi-fi, most passengers will suffer through the cramped conditions and lack of attentive, courteous flight staff.

I flew Southwest a few weeks back. It was really obvious which flight attendants were originally SW and which were Air-Trans. The Air-Trans were almost as grumpy as Delta attendants.

I used to think Southwest FAs were hokey. They still are. But compared to anyone at UA...at least they try to help the customers. UA's culture of crabby dont give a sh*t about the customer - deadheads come first won out over CO.

(08-27-2015 08:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 08:37 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 08:15 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 04:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

Actually, I think I'd rather fly Spirit than United. Not really, but close.

If the legacy carriers try to reap extraordinary profits in this period of low crude prices by keeping capacity constrained, prices higher than they should be, and service levels low... they're seeding their own demise.

Keeping capacity and prices constrained will encourage new entrants (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will enter that market. When prices rise (as they will - eventually), the new entrants will probably have a much more competitive cost structure than the legacy carriers. If its about price only - then I see no reason to not fly Spirit or Frontier.

I'm a pretty active business traveler. I've finally said "enough" to chasing status at United (I'm not alone - there's a lot of us) recently. The model of gaining loyalty by rewarding your best travelers only works if you actually reward them. And at least at United, it ain't happening anymore.

I'm really enjoying the entrance of Ultra Low Cost Carriers and Low Cost Business Class Carriers on Trans Atlantic Routes. I'll be trying two of them out next week (La Compagnie - an all business class carrier with really affordable bus class fares between Newark and Paris and a low cost carrier on the return - Wow Air out of Iceland). In 5 years, business travellers might be all flying La Compaigne type flights and all the coach travellers might gravitate to Norwegian. And then the legacies will only be able to get 2000 a RT for a business class ticket rather than 5000.

By the way, out of Houston, the airline that is crushing everyone else with the super low pricing isn't Emirates or Qatar...but Turkish.

All I can say is that Legacy US carriers have legacy costs that can't be wholly discharged through bankruptcy and mergers. So new, low cost carriers have a little more financial flexibility that United, AA and Delta. Again, if you're a frequent flier who routinely travels longer than 3 hours on a given flight, I can understand your lament. Just so long as you appreciate that such customers no longer make up a majority of the customer base. Service has regressed to the mean; if the plane offers power ports and wi-fi, most passengers will suffer through the cramped conditions and lack of attentive, courteous flight staff.

I flew Southwest a few weeks back. It was really obvious which flight attendants were originally SW and which were Air-Trans. The Air-Trans were almost as grumpy as Delta attendants.

I used to think Southwest FAs were hokey. They still are. But compared to anyone at UA...at least they try to help the customers. UA's culture of crabby dont give a sh*t about the customer - deadheads come first won out over CO.

Yes. Continental had far better service than United. United, Northwest, Delta and American were all pretty bad.