If our domestic carriers weren't utter ****, they wouldn't have this problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/traf...story.html

Our airlines are dogshit.

The airlines they are worried about have better food, better service, and most importantly better planes.

They also cost a lot more.

If I could just live on an Etihad plane I would. Their prayer is a nice touch.

(08-27-2015 08:48 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  Our airlines are dogshit.

For the most part, when compared to foreign airlines. I just flew down to South America and flew a Panamanian airline. New plane, on time, cute stewardesses, and free liquor drinks.

(08-27-2015 09:13 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 08:48 AM)BuffaloTN Wrote:  Our airlines are dogshit.

For the most part, when compared to foreign airlines. I just flew down to South America and flew a Panamanian airline. New plane, on time, cute stewardesses, and free liquor drinks.

Korean might be my favorite one going so far.

If Middle East Airlines are getting billions in subsidies from their governments, and can offer artificially low rates, it will be
very difficult for American carriers to compete. I want American carriers to be successful, although Delta undercut and ran
out competition at CVG for decades, then discontinued their hub here. Luckily their 4 decade deal is about over and other
carriers are coming in.

I work in the aerospace industry, and work directly with Middle Eastern & Domestic airlines.

The middle eastern airlines are lightyears ahead. Domestic airlines are at their highest load % in decades, they just don't reinvest into their fleets like the Middle East airlines do.

(08-27-2015 11:35 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I work in the aerospace industry, and work directly with Middle Eastern & Domestic airlines.

The middle eastern airlines are lightyears ahead. Domestic airlines are at their highest load % in decades, they just don't reinvest into their fleets like the Middle East airlines do.

ECU, I though all of the American carriers average fleet age is in the 8-12 year age? Is that considered good?

If Dubai, Abu Dhabi and others were restricting gate slots at their home airports, then I would say the Americans have a case.

If the screed is just about subsidies, they dont have a case so much.

FedEx and JetBlue compete on their merits, just like the mid-east carriers. UA, AA and Delta compete on price and value.

Hard to go buy new 777 and A380 for international routes with classy cabins when you are fighting with shareholders over their last penny of dividend while you try to stay out of Chapter 11.

(08-27-2015 11:41 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:35 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I work in the aerospace industry, and work directly with Middle Eastern & Domestic airlines.

The middle eastern airlines are lightyears ahead. Domestic airlines are at their highest load % in decades, they just don't reinvest into their fleets like the Middle East airlines do.

ECU, I though all of the American carriers average fleet age is in the 8-12 year age? Is that considered good?

It depends. The age of the plane doesn't matter as much as how often they retrofit their cabins with new seats, galleys, lavs, etc. (Seats are suggested every 3 years) Some of the middle eastern planes being outfitted with super first class seats are several years old. Check this one out... from Etihad.. unreal. You will NEVER see this in the US.

If Emirates, and Qatar wish to subsidize consumer travel for Americans...not my problem.

Technically, the US should step in.. but if the US can avoid enforcing anti-trust rules and anti-price collusion rules, then they can avoid enforcing airline price dumping rules too as far as I'm concerned.

I'm flying to Europe again next week. This time, I finally fired my legacy carrier. Your elite status is not worth the hassle, your product is expensive and unreliable and I'm just fed up. To me the football is "good quality service", Lucy is United Airlines, and I'm no longer willing to play the part of Charlie Brown.

(08-27-2015 12:10 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:41 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:35 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I work in the aerospace industry, and work directly with Middle Eastern & Domestic airlines.

The middle eastern airlines are lightyears ahead. Domestic airlines are at their highest load % in decades, they just don't reinvest into their fleets like the Middle East airlines do.

ECU, I though all of the American carriers average fleet age is in the 8-12 year age? Is that considered good?

It depends. The age of the plane doesn't matter as much as how often they retrofit their cabins with new seats, galleys, lavs, etc. Some of the middle eastern planes being outfitted with super first class seats are several years old. Check this one out... from Etihad.. unreal. You will NEVER see this in the US.

Dayam, that is nice. Even for International routes are Americans still more budget oriented? Are the Middle East carriers going from their country to Europe, Americas, Asia and back again skipping Middle East airports, just parking their planes at non middle East airports.

I like Air travel, planes, new planes, air disasters on TV, lunar missions, technology etc. Lately been Flying Sunwing to DR, nice fleet of 737's, nice flight attendants also, they are friendly for the most part. So tired of cranky sea hag flight attendants.

A380 into SFO

(08-27-2015 08:23 AM)fsquid Wrote:  If our domestic carriers weren't utter ****, they wouldn't have this problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/traf...story.html

Dubai is the 3rd biggest airport in the world and on its way to #1.
The only way to explain that is huge subsidies.

So its not a fair trade practice.

(08-27-2015 12:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 08:23 AM)fsquid Wrote:  If our domestic carriers weren't utter ****, they wouldn't have this problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/traf...story.html

Dubai is the 3rd biggest airport in the world and on its way to #1.
The only way to explain that is huge subsidies.

So its not a fair trade practice.

And neither is United and Air Canada charging 1700 bucks RT from Houston to Calgary when the charge from Houston to Seattle (further) is 350 bucks.

I get that that DXB is probably doing some funny business. But so long as our government isn't enforcing consumer protections like anti-trust and anti-pricefixing rules, then they might as well allow violations that help the consumer.

(08-27-2015 12:10 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:41 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:35 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I work in the aerospace industry, and work directly with Middle Eastern & Domestic airlines.

The middle eastern airlines are lightyears ahead. Domestic airlines are at their highest load % in decades, they just don't reinvest into their fleets like the Middle East airlines do.

ECU, I though all of the American carriers average fleet age is in the 8-12 year age? Is that considered good?

It depends. The age of the plane doesn't matter as much as how often they retrofit their cabins with new seats, galleys, lavs, etc. (Seats are suggested every 3 years) Some of the middle eastern planes being outfitted with super first class seats are several years old. Check this one out... from Etihad.. unreal. You will NEVER see this in the US.

That's an A380, it's designed for that level of exclusivity. If they were allowed to compete in the US, those ME airlines wouldn't have that level of service on your average 737/A320 route that makes up the majority of air traffic in America.

(08-27-2015 01:23 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 12:10 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:41 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 11:35 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I work in the aerospace industry, and work directly with Middle Eastern & Domestic airlines.

The middle eastern airlines are lightyears ahead. Domestic airlines are at their highest load % in decades, they just don't reinvest into their fleets like the Middle East airlines do.

ECU, I though all of the American carriers average fleet age is in the 8-12 year age? Is that considered good?

It depends. The age of the plane doesn't matter as much as how often they retrofit their cabins with new seats, galleys, lavs, etc. (Seats are suggested every 3 years) Some of the middle eastern planes being outfitted with super first class seats are several years old. Check this one out... from Etihad.. unreal. You will NEVER see this in the US.

That's an A380, it's designed for that level of exclusivity. If they were allowed to compete in the US, those ME airlines wouldn't have that level of service on your average 737/A320 route that makes up the majority of air traffic in America.

Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

This

The Americn economy ticket experience is tolerable. It isn't on any other group of carriers, especially the Europeans.

(08-27-2015 02:01 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(08-27-2015 01:29 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Well yes, I know it's an A380. But domestic long-range carriers have the option to buy them as well... they just don't. Even though the A380 is floundering a bit. It's all about better fuel economy and a higher pax count.

I'm sure they could buy them for their international routes. But they have to weigh that versus simply rehabing the interior of their legacy 747's in inventory or purchasing 787's that offer the flexibility of being profitable both internationally and domestically. I know a lot of frequent flyers long for the days of Pan Am's Clipper comforts, but much like Camry's and Accords, the US airlines have found that sweet spot in the price vs. comfort curve for a majority of travelers.

Actually, I think I'd rather fly Spirit than United. Not really, but close.

If the legacy carriers try to reap extraordinary profits in this period of low crude prices by keeping capacity constrained, prices higher than they should be, and service levels low... they're seeding their own demise.

Keeping capacity and prices constrained will encourage new entrants (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will enter that market. When prices rise (as they will - eventually), the new entrants will probably have a much more competitive cost structure than the legacy carriers. If its about price only - then I see no reason to not fly Spirit or Frontier.

I'm a pretty active business traveler. I've finally said "enough" to chasing status at United (I'm not alone - there's a lot of us) recently. The model of gaining loyalty by rewarding your best travelers only works if you actually reward them. And at least at United, it ain't happening anymore.

I'm really enjoying the entrance of Ultra Low Cost Carriers and Low Cost Business Class Carriers on Trans Atlantic Routes. I'll be trying two of them out next week (La Compagnie - an all business class carrier with really affordable bus class fares between Newark and Paris and a low cost carrier on the return - Wow Air out of Iceland). In 5 years, business travellers might be all flying La Compaigne type flights and all the coach travellers might gravitate to Norwegian. And then the legacies will only be able to get 2000 a RT for a business class ticket rather than 5000.

By the way, out of Houston, the airline that is crushing everyone else with the super low pricing isn't Emirates or Qatar...but Turkish.