(08-20-2015 09:18 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 06:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder if it might be that the WCC doesn't want it.

The WCC wants to keep BYU in any, shape or form. It's a massive revenue and exposure boost to have them in the league. They have absolutely no leverage whatsoever in their relations with BYU - the Cougars hold all the power there (just as Notre Dame had similar power in its relations with the old Big East, despite other old Big East fans trying to claim otherwise).

BYU would also take a football-only invite to a power conference immediately.

As as result, this statement is 100% about the BYU AD telling the school's fans that the power conferences (and specifically the Big 12) are NOT going to offer any type of football-only membership, so there's no use in hoping for that type of outcome (which is what a lot of fans have been trying to advocate). It's going to be all-or-nothing in terms of a P5 invite.

By the same token, I don't think this statement has ANYTHING to do with BYU being more open to joining to a G5 league, whether it's the AAC or MWC. BYU's goal is obviously to land in a power conference, but barring that scenario, independence is still vastly preferable to being in a G5 league for branding purposes. BYU has the SEC, Big Ten and ACC explicitly on-the-record that they are considered to be a "power" opponent, which is huge from a perception standpoint.

To that end, the perception standpoint is MUCH more important than any G5 access bowl slot. From a local perspective, BYU being considered to be "lesser" than Utah is COMPLETELY unacceptable to their leadership. Independence allows BYU to continue to argue that they are a "special" school that is a power school even though it doesn't have power conference membership, whereas being in a G5 league structurally makes them inferior to Utah (which is a non-starter). I can't emphasize this enough. BEING IN A G5 LEAGUE MEANS BYU ADMITS THEY ARE INFERIOR TO UTAH, WHICH CANNOT HAPPEN WHEN YOU RUN THAT SCHOOL. G5 conferences have about as much of a shot of adding BYU as they do at adding Notre Dame... meaning that they have no chance at all.

My eyes roll every time I see any type of proposal that has (a) BYU joining a G5 conference as a full member or (b) Notre Dame joining any type of conference as a full member. Those are completely pointless exercises on par with proposing that Ohio State leave the Big Ten or Alabama leave the SEC (and that's saying something in the speculative world of a conference realignment board).

If they know for a fact that XII will not offer a football-only invite, then just keep silent. What good is going public like this? To appease a few message board fans?


But what if the XII does come out and offer football-only invite? Is BYU really going to reject it, to save face? And what are they going to say when they accept it? "Oops, just kidding! lol" ??

Seems like an unnecessary risk.

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:36 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The only schools that the MWC could add are:
Eastern Washington
Sacramento State
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Montana
North Dakota State
UTEP
UTSA
West Texas A&M

This is just in case they do lose a couple to a P5 conference. I know Scott of the PAC 12 said they are impressed with how San Diego State and Boise State grew their academics and all that, and that they could be a future PAC 12 members. So, those schools need to turn themselves into a very Heavy research institutes just like the PAC 12 schools to get in.

The ''only'' schools? And, you include West Texas A&M in that group?
I know I'm new here....but, they are DII. It would take them at least four years to even become a DI program. Not to mention all the finances, scholarships, facilities, infrastructure and Title IX complications they would have to solve, first.

And, pardon me for asking Dave.....have you ever been to the panhandle of Texas? I don't see any P5 or G5 conference wanting anything to do with Canyon Texas. Almost any other Lone Star Conference school would be a better choice for your example.

West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

(08-20-2015 10:07 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:36 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The only schools that the MWC could add are:
Eastern Washington
Sacramento State
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Montana
North Dakota State
UTEP
UTSA
West Texas A&M

This is just in case they do lose a couple to a P5 conference. I know Scott of the PAC 12 said they are impressed with how San Diego State and Boise State grew their academics and all that, and that they could be a future PAC 12 members. So, those schools need to turn themselves into a very Heavy research institutes just like the PAC 12 schools to get in.

The ''only'' schools? And, you include West Texas A&M in that group?
I know I'm new here....but, they are DII. It would take them at least four years to even become a DI program. Not to mention all the finances, scholarships, facilities, infrastructure and Title IX complications they would have to solve, first.

And, pardon me for asking Dave.....have you ever been to the panhandle of Texas? I don't see any P5 or G5 conference wanting anything to do with Canyon Texas. Almost any other Lone Star Conference school would be a better choice for your example.

West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

I was always taught to NEVER argue with a drunk or a crazy-person... Just sayin'.

(08-20-2015 10:16 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 10:07 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 05:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:36 AM)MellowCorn Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 01:18 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  The only schools that the MWC could add are:
Eastern Washington
Sacramento State
Cal-Davis
Cal-Poly
Montana
North Dakota State
UTEP
UTSA
West Texas A&M

This is just in case they do lose a couple to a P5 conference. I know Scott of the PAC 12 said they are impressed with how San Diego State and Boise State grew their academics and all that, and that they could be a future PAC 12 members. So, those schools need to turn themselves into a very Heavy research institutes just like the PAC 12 schools to get in.

The ''only'' schools? And, you include West Texas A&M in that group?
I know I'm new here....but, they are DII. It would take them at least four years to even become a DI program. Not to mention all the finances, scholarships, facilities, infrastructure and Title IX complications they would have to solve, first.

And, pardon me for asking Dave.....have you ever been to the panhandle of Texas? I don't see any P5 or G5 conference wanting anything to do with Canyon Texas. Almost any other Lone Star Conference school would be a better choice for your example.

West Texas A&m was a 1A member, now FBS, back until the 1980's. They do have the ability to move up quicker than other D2 schools. The location is that they are like they are neighbors to Amarillo. They have the Amarillo's tv market alone, and not competing with other schools in the area. I do not see the other schools in the Lonestar be able to except for Midwestern State in Wichita Falls could move up. Canyon to Amarillo is like Norman to Oklahoma City. Not a far drive. Midwestern State was D1 and so was Washburn at one time. That is why you should look at the schools that you were rivals at one time.

West Texas State used to be in the MVC when they sponsered football. West Texas A&M's old rivals are:
Saint Louis
Wichita State
Bradley
Cincinnati
North Texas State
Louisville
Memphis
New Mexico State
Southern Illinois
Indiana State
Illinois State.

This is why bringing them back up could help. Kimbrough Memorial Stadium can seat 20,000 fans. Record breaking fans saw a Lone Star Conference game back in 2007 of 23,276. They upgraded with new football locker rooms, new sports park complex, plus their basketball gym holds 5000. The next project should upgrade the First United Bank Center to put more seatings in. As I said, they are more able to move to FBS since they were at that type of level before.

You are totally fooling yourself. West Texas A&M is in no position to move up. Especially that far of a jump.
Just because a school competed at the DI level at one time is no reason to just pencil that school in again. This isn't monopoly where you can just substitute one property for another without any consideration.

And the Texas panhandle has no ability to draw fans, schools or support. You obviously have never seen the area and are just assuming that factors will just fix themselves automatically.

What does someones rivals from 30 years ago have to do with anything? West Texas A&M is a DII school. Think about that!

You are totally dreaming to think West Texas could even move up that high in a relatively short amount of time. Unless, you are talking 8-10 years. Which makes your whole premise illogical.
Come on...this is a DII school you are suggesting for a G5 conference. Don't you see the trouble in that suggestion???
Try suggesting something plausible. Not just some day dream fantasy.

Did you really compare OU and West Texas A&M?? Come on Dude!?! Where do you think of such folly?

I was always taught to NEVER argue with a drunk or a crazy-person... Just sayin'.

I only had three or four bourbons this morning. I still couldn't figure out what David was thinking??? Sorry!

(08-19-2015 08:32 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  Boise State
BYU
Colorado State
San Diego State
Fresno State


At that level, that is the most valuable programs in the West that will not be in a Power Conference. Those five will defect from the MWC after new divisional rules happen and they will join the AMERICAN Athletic Conference as a five team division within it.

Then you are delusional. You should seek help.

Thank you Frank the Tank!

If BYU is considered a P5 opponent by the majority of P5 schools, why would they lower their image and join a G5 conference?!?! People, get it together!

(08-20-2015 09:57 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  If they know for a fact that XII will not offer a football-only invite, then just keep silent. What good is going public like this? To appease a few message board fans?


But what if the XII does come out and offer football-only invite? Is BYU really going to reject it, to save face? And what are they going to say when they accept it? "Oops, just kidding! lol" ??

Seems like an unnecessary risk.

From his perspective, it's not a "few" message board fans. Just imagine how many conversations that the BYU AD has with alums and donors every single day and even more emails from fans every single day asking, "Why can't we just get a football-only invite to the Big 12? Then we don't have to worry about Sunday play for other sports!" (with all of those fans believing that they're presenting a brand new idea as if that's the first time that he has ever heard that suggestion).

The BYU AD is in a position where he has to constantly set realistic expectations for the fan base. The reason why he's always talking about whether or not BYU is getting a P5 invite because that is literally the question that he's receiving from alums and fans literally 90% of the time (if not more). Whether it's correct or not, much of the BYU fan base *perceives* that they had an invitation to the Big 12 and then botched it over TV rights or other contractual issues. Personally, I don't believe that's a correct interpretation of the situation at all, but that is what much of the BYU fan base truly believes.

To that end, there is no *realistic* "What if?" scenario for a Big 12 football-only invite. We can play the "Anything can happen!" game all day for any scenario, but that's like saying that I believe that we can take dinosaur DNA from mosquitoes fossilized in amber and start breeding velociraptors because "Anything can happen!" There are reasonable scenarios and there are unreasonable ones... and a Big 12 football-only invite is an unreasonable one (despite the hopes of some fans). This isn't an "unnecessary risk" for the BYU AD. Unless he comes out and addresses it, then BYU fans will continue to have unrealistic expectations of thinking that a football-only invite to the Big 12 is a truly viable option... and once again, this fan base is hammering him with conference realignment questions every single day. Many BYU fans perceive that the BYU administration is chose independence *over* a P5 invite, even though the reality is that they chose independence because they *didn't* get a P5 invite. There's a big-time perception gap at BYU that the AD has to deal with that doesn't exist anywhere else (including other nixed schools such as UConn and Cincinnati).

We'll leave the light on for you --- Mike Aresco

(08-20-2015 11:13 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  We'll leave the light on for you --- Mike Aresco

Well if BYU is too stubborn, NIU isn't too proud to take their reservation

Cuz god the MAC sucks, and CUSA is pretty damn bad and trending downward too

(08-19-2015 07:09 PM)Okielite Wrote:  So now we can add better exposure for non FB sports and a similar paycheck to the list of reasons they might do this.

MWC doesn't provide better exposure for Olympic sports than the WCC.

Obviously men's basketball is the other high-profile sport. WCC basketball has a deal with ESPN and allows BYU to broadcast games on BYUTV. MWC is widely on CBSsports - and the MWC would likely have issue with BYUtv broadcasts. No contest.

In 2014, BYU had 13 men's bball regular season games broadcast on the ESPN networks and 8 games on BYUtv - plus rebroadcasts of the majority of games on BYUtv and online on-demand access on BYUtv.org.

MWC champ SDSU, by comparison, had 9 games on ESPN networks (including Maui Invitational game against BYU), and 9 games on CBSsports network and bunch of games on ESPN3 and the local Fox San Diego affiliate.

Plus, WCC has GONZAGA. Gonzaga basketball is one of the tops in ratings from among the Western universities - including the PAC. Gonzaga and BYU get better ratings than the MWC.

Plus, the WCC is an excellent conference in Olympic sports like baseball and women's soccer. BYU televises women's soccer and gets 3-4K fans to women's soccer home games.

Plus, BYU also excels in volleyball, gets 4-5K attendance at home, and televises games on BYUtv. Men's volleyball competes in the MPSF, with UCLA, USC, Stanford, Hawaii, Long Beach St., UC Santa Barbara, Pepperdine, etc.

(08-20-2015 10:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  From his perspective, it's not a "few" message board fans. Just imagine how many conversations that the BYU AD has with alums and donors every single day and even more emails from fans every single day asking, "Why can't we just get a football-only invite to the Big 12? Then we don't have to worry about Sunday play for other sports!" (with all of those fans believing that they're presenting a brand new idea as if that's the first time that he has ever heard that suggestion).

The BYU AD is in a position where he has to constantly set realistic expectations for the fan base. The reason why he's always talking about whether or not BYU is getting a P5 invite because that is literally the question that he's receiving from alums and fans literally 90% of the time (if not more). Whether it's correct or not, much of the BYU fan base *perceives* that they had an invitation to the Big 12 and then botched it over TV rights or other contractual issues. Personally, I don't believe that's a correct interpretation of the situation at all, but that is what much of the BYU fan base truly believes.

To that end, there is no *realistic* "What if?" scenario for a Big 12 football-only invite. We can play the "Anything can happen!" game all day for any scenario, but that's like saying that I believe that we can take dinosaur DNA from mosquitoes fossilized in amber and start breeding velociraptors because "Anything can happen!" There are reasonable scenarios and there are unreasonable ones... and a Big 12 football-only invite is an unreasonable one (despite the hopes of some fans). This isn't an "unnecessary risk" for the BYU AD. Unless he comes out and addresses it, then BYU fans will continue to have unrealistic expectations of thinking that a football-only invite to the Big 12 is a truly viable option... and once again, this fan base is hammering him with conference realignment questions every single day. Many BYU fans perceive that the BYU administration is chose independence *over* a P5 invite, even though the reality is that they chose independence because they *didn't* get a P5 invite. There's a big-time perception gap at BYU that the AD has to deal with that doesn't exist anywhere else (including other nixed schools such as UConn and Cincinnati).

It's also important to note the venue for these remarks. This week is BYU's annual Campus Education Week - in between summer and fall semesters - where alumni and LDS Church members and leaders participate in courses ranging from religion to history to parenting to continuing legal education (cheap and usually entertaining CLE credits!).

Every year, Tom Holmoe conducts a Wednesday lecture and Q&A "course" as part of Campus Education Week. I didn't attend this year, but did attend the last 3 or 4 years. After some anecdotes and a mini state-of-the-program address, he fields questions from the crowd - including from media members. While the tone is somewhat similar to a Cougar Club luncheon, you get a lot of fans (and expansion junkies) who are searching for inside information....and some that think it's an opportunity to influence Holmoe in one direction or another.

Holmoe is in a near impossible position of managing expectations and perceptions without harming sensitive and important relationships and communications - like with Big 12 and MWC officials and AD's. He makes a couple of somewhat evasive and politically correct comments about "no football only" and "never say never (to the MWV)" and BYU's message boards are ablaze with analysis and criticism and scenario-after-scenario of what Holmoe should or shouldn't do...and the gap widens....

I really hope BYU stays in the WCC for a long time. That arrangement has grown on me. It's not the best fit for them, but it works. There is value in being in a conference with all like-minded institutions.

(08-20-2015 11:22 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 07:09 PM)Okielite Wrote:  So now we can add better exposure for non FB sports and a similar paycheck to the list of reasons they might do this.

MWC doesn't provide better exposure for Olympic sports than the WCC.

Obviously men's basketball is the other high-profile sport. WCC basketball has a deal with ESPN and allows BYU to broadcast games on BYUTV. MWC is widely on CBSsports - and the MWC would likely have issue with BYUtv broadcasts. No contest.

In 2014, BYU had 13 men's bball regular season games broadcast on the ESPN networks and 8 games on BYUtv - plus rebroadcasts of the majority of games on BYUtv and online on-demand access on BYUtv.org.

MWC champ SDSU, by comparison, had 9 games on ESPN networks (including Maui Invitational game against BYU), and 9 games on CBSsports network and bunch of games on ESPN3 and the local Fox San Diego affiliate.

Plus, WCC has GONZAGA. Gonzaga basketball is one of the tops in ratings from among the Western universities - including the PAC. Gonzaga and BYU get better ratings than the MWC.

Plus, the WCC is an excellent conference in Olympic sports like baseball and women's soccer. BYU televises women's soccer and gets 3-4K fans to women's soccer home games.

Plus, BYU also excels in volleyball, gets 4-5K attendance at home, and televises games on BYUtv. Men's volleyball competes in the MPSF, with UCLA, USC, Stanford, Hawaii, Long Beach St., UC Santa Barbara, Pepperdine, etc.

You forgot to add that some of those SDSU and UNLV games were on OTA CBS not including the final tourney game which is also on OTA CBS. So the MW does get a bit more exposure.

(08-20-2015 11:22 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 07:09 PM)Okielite Wrote:  So now we can add better exposure for non FB sports and a similar paycheck to the list of reasons they might do this.

MWC doesn't provide better exposure for Olympic sports than the WCC.

Obviously men's basketball is the other high-profile sport. WCC basketball has a deal with ESPN and allows BYU to broadcast games on BYUTV. MWC is widely on CBSsports - and the MWC would likely have issue with BYUtv broadcasts. No contest.

In 2014, BYU had 13 men's bball regular season games broadcast on the ESPN networks and 8 games on BYUtv - plus rebroadcasts of the majority of games on BYUtv and online on-demand access on BYUtv.org.

MWC champ SDSU, by comparison, had 9 games on ESPN networks (including Maui Invitational game against BYU), and 9 games on CBSsports network and bunch of games on ESPN3 and the local Fox San Diego affiliate.

Plus, WCC has GONZAGA. Gonzaga basketball is one of the tops in ratings from among the Western universities - including the PAC. Gonzaga and BYU get better ratings than the MWC.

Plus, the WCC is an excellent conference in Olympic sports like baseball and women's soccer. BYU televises women's soccer and gets 3-4K fans to women's soccer home games.

Plus, BYU also excels in volleyball, gets 4-5K attendance at home, and televises games on BYUtv. Men's volleyball competes in the MPSF, with UCLA, USC, Stanford, Hawaii, Long Beach St., UC Santa Barbara, Pepperdine, etc.

The WCC earned four bids to the NCAA Tournament in volleyball, with BYU eventually being the national runner-ups.

(08-20-2015 10:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 09:57 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  If they know for a fact that XII will not offer a football-only invite, then just keep silent. What good is going public like this? To appease a few message board fans?


But what if the XII does come out and offer football-only invite? Is BYU really going to reject it, to save face? And what are they going to say when they accept it? "Oops, just kidding! lol" ??

Seems like an unnecessary risk.

From his perspective, it's not a "few" message board fans. Just imagine how many conversations that the BYU AD has with alums and donors every single day and even more emails from fans every single day asking, "Why can't we just get a football-only invite to the Big 12? Then we don't have to worry about Sunday play for other sports!" (with all of those fans believing that they're presenting a brand new idea as if that's the first time that he has ever heard that suggestion).

The BYU AD is in a position where he has to constantly set realistic expectations for the fan base. The reason why he's always talking about whether or not BYU is getting a P5 invite because that is literally the question that he's receiving from alums and fans literally 90% of the time (if not more). Whether it's correct or not, much of the BYU fan base *perceives* that they had an invitation to the Big 12 and then botched it over TV rights or other contractual issues. Personally, I don't believe that's a correct interpretation of the situation at all, but that is what much of the BYU fan base truly believes.

To that end, there is no *realistic* "What if?" scenario for a Big 12 football-only invite. We can play the "Anything can happen!" game all day for any scenario, but that's like saying that I believe that we can take dinosaur DNA from mosquitoes fossilized in amber and start breeding velociraptors because "Anything can happen!" There are reasonable scenarios and there are unreasonable ones... and a Big 12 football-only invite is an unreasonable one (despite the hopes of some fans). This isn't an "unnecessary risk" for the BYU AD. Unless he comes out and addresses it, then BYU fans will continue to have unrealistic expectations of thinking that a football-only invite to the Big 12 is a truly viable option... and once again, this fan base is hammering him with conference realignment questions every single day. Many BYU fans perceive that the BYU administration is chose independence *over* a P5 invite, even though the reality is that they chose independence because they *didn't* get a P5 invite. There's a big-time perception gap at BYU that the AD has to deal with that doesn't exist anywhere else (including other nixed schools such as UConn and Cincinnati).

Your post seems to be influenced by your previously stated assertion that a football-invite is unrealistic.

No one knows if that's true.

Likewise, how can you know so precisely what alumni pressures the BYU AD is dealing with?

I think these are just your guesses, even if they are close to being accurate.

(08-20-2015 11:45 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 10:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  From his perspective, it's not a "few" message board fans. Just imagine how many conversations that the BYU AD has with alums and donors every single day and even more emails from fans every single day asking, "Why can't we just get a football-only invite to the Big 12? Then we don't have to worry about Sunday play for other sports!" (with all of those fans believing that they're presenting a brand new idea as if that's the first time that he has ever heard that suggestion).

The BYU AD is in a position where he has to constantly set realistic expectations for the fan base. The reason why he's always talking about whether or not BYU is getting a P5 invite because that is literally the question that he's receiving from alums and fans literally 90% of the time (if not more). Whether it's correct or not, much of the BYU fan base *perceives* that they had an invitation to the Big 12 and then botched it over TV rights or other contractual issues. Personally, I don't believe that's a correct interpretation of the situation at all, but that is what much of the BYU fan base truly believes.

To that end, there is no *realistic* "What if?" scenario for a Big 12 football-only invite. We can play the "Anything can happen!" game all day for any scenario, but that's like saying that I believe that we can take dinosaur DNA from mosquitoes fossilized in amber and start breeding velociraptors because "Anything can happen!" There are reasonable scenarios and there are unreasonable ones... and a Big 12 football-only invite is an unreasonable one (despite the hopes of some fans). This isn't an "unnecessary risk" for the BYU AD. Unless he comes out and addresses it, then BYU fans will continue to have unrealistic expectations of thinking that a football-only invite to the Big 12 is a truly viable option... and once again, this fan base is hammering him with conference realignment questions every single day. Many BYU fans perceive that the BYU administration is chose independence *over* a P5 invite, even though the reality is that they chose independence because they *didn't* get a P5 invite. There's a big-time perception gap at BYU that the AD has to deal with that doesn't exist anywhere else (including other nixed schools such as UConn and Cincinnati).

It's also important to note the venue for these remarks. This week is BYU's annual Campus Education Week - in between summer and fall semesters - where alumni and LDS Church members and leaders participate in courses ranging from religion to history to parenting to continuing legal education (cheap and usually entertaining CLE credits!).

Every year, Tom Holmoe conducts a Wednesday lecture and Q&A "course" as part of Campus Education Week. I didn't attend this year, but did attend the last 3 or 4 years. After some anecdotes and a mini state-of-the-program address, he fields questions from the crowd - including from media members. While the tone is somewhat similar to a Cougar Club luncheon, you get a lot of fans (and expansion junkies) who are searching for inside information....and some that think it's an opportunity to influence Holmoe in one direction or another.

Holmoe is in a near impossible position of managing expectations and perceptions without harming sensitive and important relationships and communications - like with Big 12 and MWC officials and AD's. He makes a couple of somewhat evasive and politically correct comments about "no football only" and "never say never (to the MWV)" and BYU's message boards are ablaze with analysis and criticism and scenario-after-scenario of what Holmoe should or shouldn't do...and the gap widens....

While this is good info, what is the bottom line take away?

That his statement isn't to be trusted, given the context?

(08-20-2015 10:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Many BYU fans perceive that the BYU administration is chose independence *over* a P5 invite, even though the reality is that they chose independence because they *didn't* get a P5 invite.

I've literally never read or heard anybody saying this.

(08-20-2015 12:20 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  You forgot to add that some of those SDSU and UNLV games were on OTA CBS not including the final tourney game which is also on OTA CBS. So the MW does get a bit more exposure.

You may be right, but looking at the goaztecs.com schedule list - the only game that shows as aired OTA on CBS was the MWC championship game - SDSU v. Wyoming.

The MWC tournament quarterfinals and semi-finals that involved SDSU were on CBSsports network. So, no Nielsen ratings information.

The the WCC tournament games were broadcast on ESPN2 and ESPN. Non-championship WCC tournament games on ESPN2 pulled: 0.2, 0.2, 0.2, and 0.6 ratings with 293K, 338K, 405k, and 941k viewers.

The WCC championship on ESPN grabbed 1.43M viewers and a 1.0 rating and the MWC Championship on CBS pulled 1.61M viewers and a 1.1 rating.

Not a big difference - especially for OTA CBS v. ESPN.

(08-20-2015 12:41 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 10:35 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Many BYU fans perceive that the BYU administration is chose independence *over* a P5 invite, even though the reality is that they chose independence because they *didn't* get a P5 invite.

I've literally never read or heard anybody saying this.

That was a thing on BYU fan boards--mostly from Utah fans rubbing it in that they got a P5 invite from the PAC12 and BYU "botched" their negotiations with the Big 12. You will occasionally find someone who hangs on to that but it's pretty much died out.

From a purely financial point of view, it would be very hard for BYU to do any better in a G5 conference than they do as an independent. It's estimated (I don't think the terms have been made public) that ESPN pays them around $1 million per home game. Any games ESPN doesn't pick up they can air live on BYUTV.

If you assume they get $5 million a year from their ESPN contract, then any G5 they join would have to be getting $4MM per school for all its members just to break even. I don't think anybody is even close to that number now. And that doesn't take into account any bowl money BYU might earn and not have to share as an indy.

Add to that the psychological value of being treated as a virtual peer of P5 Utah, and there are a lot of reasons to stay a football indy. Given that the PAC is the longest of longshots, and the unstable B12 the only other P5 that's even a possibility, the odds are enormous that the Cougars will maintain their status quo for at least several more years.