(08-11-2015 12:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  And at the same time, parents need to realize that when you try to control every aspect of your childrens' lives, they will rebel, act out, and eventually start ignoring those rules. Many parents find success by acting in a reasonable manner with their children, and only coming down hard when it is absolutely necessary.

I know kids who were given total freedom and ended up worse off than if they had some structure. And I know kids who were in a house that was very strict about what they could and couldn't do and ended up worse than if they had freedom. Generally, like most things in life, it's all about moderation when raising children (or dealing with countries?).

Just playing devil's advocate with that analogy.

All this is true, but I think we'd all generally agree that parking Russian Nuclear missiles in Cuba or using chemical weapons and invading other countries or trying to acquire nuclear weapons are certainly the sorts of things that warrant being 'grounded'.

I realize that we try and control far more than this, but these were the 'stated' reasons for these specific embargoes.

I think you're actually touching on the issue I'm alluding to. We seem to use legitimate reasons for embargoes, generally supported by much of the world and then we negotiate 'control' of these other aspects in exchange for easing of those sanctions.

i.e. an embargo for nuclear weapons is softened or amended in exchange for human rights improvements or commercial access. Once that door is opened, all negotiations are legitimate.

Unfortunately, rather than just taking away the car keys, when you do it with countries, there are all sorts of times they're allowed to use the car, and for all sorts of purposes... just not CERTAIN purposes. It becomes kind of silly I think, since we really can't ground them.

Like Butters, they are 'ungroundable'.

You know, I take back all my reservations. Section iii of the Preamble says:
"Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or
acquire any nuclear weapons."

What is there to worry about?

Iran is already violating the "deal" with the help of Putin.

And now we learn Iran gets to inspect themselves? What a farce.

(08-19-2015 03:04 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Iran is already violating the "deal" with the help of Putin.

And now we learn Iran gets to inspect themselves? What a farce.

The AP "self-inspection" story has been convincingly discredited, and AP has changed it. Long story linked below, but here's a key passage:

"The bottom line here is that this is all over a mild and widely anticipated compromise on a single set of inspections to a single, long-dormant site. The AP, deliberately or not, has distorted that into something that sounds much worse, but actually isn't. The whole incident is a fascinating, if disturbing, example of how misleading reporting on technical issues can play into the politics of foreign policy."

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/20/9182185/ap-...ns-parchin

(08-20-2015 12:49 PM)S.A. Owl Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 03:04 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  Iran is already violating the "deal" with the help of Putin.

And now we learn Iran gets to inspect themselves? What a farce.

The AP "self-inspection" story has been convincingly discredited, and AP has changed it. Long story linked below, but here's a key passage:

"The bottom line here is that this is all over a mild and widely anticipated compromise on a single set of inspections to a single, long-dormant site. The AP, deliberately or not, has distorted that into something that sounds much worse, but actually isn't. The whole incident is a fascinating, if disturbing, example of how misleading reporting on technical issues can play into the politics of foreign policy."

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/20/9182185/ap-...ns-parchin

Vox has been unabashedly grinding its own partisan axe on this topic for a while in a way that is itself both fascinating and disturbing. But yes it's an unusual situation.

Regardless of what happens in the U.S. over Congressional Approval on the deal everyone has to acknowledge that we can't do anything to prevent Israel from acting on their own.

U.S. Bases will be hit in an Iranian Counter-attack.