the point is UNC gets hyped up because it is a preferred southern university by northeastern people with various connections.

(08-02-2015 04:57 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  the point is UNC gets hyped up because it is a preferred southern university by northeastern people with various connections.

But that is not what you said.
You have made many statements that are "fuzzy" or incorrect, most of the time it is just not worth it to call you on every instance.

I agree with JRsec...the comment about Ag schools was ridiculous. If someone is going to come to an SEC board then it would be wise not to put down SEC members.

Anyway, I just suggested a merger because the leagues overlap so much territory and have a lot to offer each other. I know it isn't going to happen. It was purely a hypothetical.

Actually, I don't really understand why Southern-based ACC fans would have had a problem with the idea. Nothing against Wake, but they have a very small fan base and no market to speak of. They wouldn't be in the P5 right now if not for being grandfathered in as a legacy. Dropping them in favor of another school would be a business decision. I suppose you could say the same thing about Vandy, but the SEC is the league with unwavering stability not to mention it's own network complete with branding and distribution. That's why it would need to be an SEC expansion rather than the dissolving of 2 leagues to form one. The Big 8 and the SWC both had issues in the 90s. That's why they merged rather than one league expanding. Not to mention, schools like Mizzou, MSU, and Auburn are major revenue producers. There's no reason to exclude them. This is a different situation.

Anyway, most everything posted here is going to be fan fiction. No one really knows what is going to happen. I just hope the SEC is better off at the end of the day.

(08-02-2015 04:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 03:54 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 12:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 11:34 AM)WoadBlue Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 04:20 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I've batted around a few ideas with fans over the years, JRsec among them.

As far as what the best way is for ESPN to protect their current properties and free up money and space for investment in other leagues, there is a simple answer. It's a bit unwieldy, but simple nonetheless.

That would be a de facto merger of the SEC and ACC. The SEC is the strongest league of course and has a long history of association with members of the ACC. Most of these schools were once in the same league actually. The old Southern Conference of the early 1900s didn't break up until 1932 when a faction of schools broke off and formed the SEC. The ACC came several years later and a few of those old schools left behind faded into obscurity. It was a massive league and doomed to failure for its geographic girth if nothing else.

Today is a new day. The money is better than ever. Travel is easier than ever. League stability is more important than ever. The SEC is more than stable, that's not the problem. The problem is the ACC has some long term issues to be concerned about and there are serious questions as to just how profitable an ACC Network could be. Will it fill the gap for major programs like Florida State? Or would its launch simply delay the inevitable.

Some say schools like FSU and Clemson would be better suited in the Big 12 with the additional earning power. Even if it happened, I don't see it lasting in the long term. There's a lot of dead weight in the ACC though so remaining with that league has its own set of problems.

How much does the ACC benefit from chasing Texas? The travel, the issue of adding another alpha dog and historical troublemaker? On the other hand, does the core of the ACC really want to separate? There is a common culture there among many schools.

Easiest answer? Take 10 ACC schools and move them to the SEC.

Florida State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, North Carolina, NC State, Duke, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Louisville, and Notre Dame if they're willing to come...Miami if not.

The remainder of the ACC are some of the weaker programs that don't warrant as much money. The likes of Pitt, Syracuse, BC, Wake Forest would be better suited in other leagues. Their primary value is their basketball content and that simply doesn't pay the bills for ESPN like football can. Part of the problem with the ACC contract is paying schools like this equal value.

It really does come down to what ESPN can gain from a move like this. Here's what they can get:

1) The savings from having to pay the ACC leftovers equal value. Undoubtedly, ESPN will still get content from any remaining schools whether they join the G5 or other major leagues. ESPN will still get a piece of that pie.

2) No need for an ACC Network without an ACC. No further investment needed.

3) Additional content for the SEC Network. Also, you can probably charge a fair bit more for the SECN with all the additional content. From $1.40 to $2 or more? I think it's realistic.

4) Additional content for your primary networks. Here's how you do it with 24 teams instead of 28. The league should be divided into 4 divisions of 6. You play each team in your division annually and that's 5. Then you play then full slate from another division and that's 6 more for a total of 11. Leave the 12th game for an OOC match-up of an FCS team so everyone can take a break. Rotate every couple of years and you can play everyone, even in a 24 team league, twice every 6 years.

Currently, the roster of both leagues gives ESPN a total of 224 football games(minus whatever CBS takes) and an additional 2 or 3 per year featuring Notre Dame. Take 24 teams though and have them play 11 games and you get 264. In addition, most of those 264 will be more valuable because of the quality of the league.

The foundation for everyone to get a raise is there.

5) FOX doesn't enter into the equation. Whatever new money ESPN has to invest in other leagues will be a bonus they have for making such a move. Such a move would actually help ESPN compete with FOX for other content, not hinder them.

Instead, I suggest that Miss St is utterly superfluous, and Auburn is unneeded (too Many Ag schools always breed the worst sort), and Missouri is too much a midwestern state. So the SEC should start the ball rolling by booting those 3.

If you have come to this board to troll I'll boot your butt post haste. But this last comment is simply too ignorant for words. Auburn does have agriculture, but also has a renowned aerospace engineering school, veterinary medicine, architecture, nursing, and education departments.

Missouri has it all and then some.

Mississippi State, like West Virginia and Kentucky, orients its mission around the needs of their state. And none of them have ever been guilty of academic fraud!

Auburn has been consistently either in, or just on the cusp of, the top 10 grossing athletic departments in the nation for the last 20 years. Their isn't one damned program in the ACC that is within spitting distance of them. Missouri is climbing those numbers already. Got it!

It's disappointing to see a distinguished moderator treat a guest of great renowned in such a manner.

Well oh my goodness, I didn't know he was renowned. If he was he should have better sense than to suggest that Auburn (on average one of the top 10 most valuable programs in the nation) be booted from the SEC and use a condescending tone on a board where he is a guest. Mea Culpa.

"Bless your heart"

(08-02-2015 06:31 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 04:57 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  the point is UNC gets hyped up because it is a preferred southern university by northeastern people with various connections.

But that is not what you said.
You have made many statements that are "fuzzy" or incorrect, most of the time it is just not worth it to call you on every instance.

ok well that is ironic because this is a vague criticism. I cannot control your incorrect inferences. I never talked about how many students go to UNC from out of state. I talked about hype. It is understood that all public schools can only take so many out of staters.

Gestures toward my signature

Benefits not listed in said signature:
1) You get a home-and-home round robin against your division in basketball. This should make EVERYBODY quite happy and increase ticket sales.
2) You play football games of regional and historic interest. Florida fans aren't any more pumped up to play Missouri than Clemson fans are pumped up to play Syracuse. This means greatly increased gate revenue.
3) You eliminate OOC play altogether, saving a crapton of money, pain, and hassle. Nobody wants to watch Duke play FIU or Baylor play Buffalo anyway.
4) You have a FCS pre-season game that does not count in the standings sold as an extra home game, eliminating the spring game, but still keeping various political forces content and having a tip of the hat to FCS which behaves a bit like a coaching farm league and rule test chamber for FBS.
5) I agree with JRSec that it is most logical to have one television production studio in Dallas and one in Charlotte. ESPNU is already in Charlotte. This also provides failover.
6) The rust belt and New England are walled off and their demographic problems will continue to get worse. I don't think they'll be able to do much in bringing kids from SoCal to spend 4 winters in the hinterlands of Minnesota, Iowa, and Michigan.


Unclear:
1) The SEC offices act as a shareholder and take an explicit cut. The ACC offices act as a non-profit and deduct their operating expenses before distribution. Which is kept? I think the ACC's model is preferable as it is more flexible.
2) League office locations. Do you have one centralized place? If so it is probably best placed in Atlanta, due to the large amount of travel involved, Atlanta's superior air facilities, ease of jumping on several major interstates, and proximity to the center of the league. If not, then I have no idea.
3) How many channels? I think at least two, but one could make an argument for 3 or even 4.
4) The bowl fall out. Would intra-conference games be possible?


Not listed but expected in this scenario:
1) B1G + UCONN, Cuse, BC + Pac-12 finally cement their Pasadena love affair. ND would likely be joining this group since everybody they want to play is already here. If they want to take Pitt with them that would shuffle Pitt into that group and Iowa State would join the conference in my signature.
2) The southeastern elements of the Sun Belt, AAC, and C-USA could form another megaconference. The MAC, MWC, and other leftover parts would form the last megaconference.

How would the divisions break down?

(08-03-2015 07:38 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  How would the divisions break down?

Just my thought on my scenario:

West:

Texas A&M
LSU
Arkansas
Missouri
Ole Miss
Miss. St.

Central:

Alabama
Auburn
Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Georgia Tech
Florida St.

East:

Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
Clemson
Kentucky
Louisville

North:

UNC
Duke
NC State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Notre Dame

Not the greatest alignment and there's certainly room for tweaking, but this is just one thought.

(08-03-2015 08:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Central:

Alabama
Auburn
Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Georgia Tech
Florida St.

I think your Central is way overloaded in football. You could finish 4th in the Central when you would otherwise finish #1 in the other divisions. Also Vanderbilt might never win another division game.

(08-03-2015 08:47 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 08:06 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Central:

Alabama
Auburn
Vanderbilt
Tennessee
Georgia Tech
Florida St.

I think your Central is way overloaded in football. You could finish 4th in the Central when you would otherwise finish #1 in the other divisions. Also Vanderbilt might never win another division game.

The Central is overloaded but its good geographically. Maybe keep Georgia/Gt & Florida/FSU together.

How about this:

East
Florida
FSU
Georgia
GT
NC
Duke
Virginia
VT

Central
Alabama
Auburn
Tennessee
Vandy
South Carolina
Clemson
Notre Dame
NC State

West
Texas A&M
Missouri
Arkansas
LSU
Louisville
Kentucky
Ole Miss
Miss State

We may get an extensive scheduling agreement and joint network distribution between the ACC and the SEC, but you will not see a merger. It wouldn't be good for either conference, for ESPN product distribution, or for Collegiate Athletics in general.

(08-04-2015 07:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  We may get an extensive scheduling agreement and joint network distribution between the ACC and the SEC, but you will not see a merger. It wouldn't be good for either conference, for ESPN product distribution, or for Collegiate Athletics in general.

Works for me.

(08-04-2015 07:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  We may get an extensive scheduling agreement and joint network distribution between the ACC and the SEC, but you will not see a merger. It wouldn't be good for either conference, for ESPN product distribution, or for Collegiate Athletics in general.

I basically agree with the tenor of this remark but with one caveat. Should relations between FOX and ESPN become more hostile the level of cooperation, cross-over scheduling, and joint distribution of the SEC/ACC will become more of a determining advantage to ESPN but such an eventuality might also spillover to college athletics. So I wouldn't call that good for college athletics should such occur.

(08-04-2015 07:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  We may get an extensive scheduling agreement and joint network distribution between the ACC and the SEC, but you will not see a merger. It wouldn't be good for either conference, for ESPN product distribution, or for Collegiate Athletics in general.

I think the megaconference is the compromise final solution to deal with the death of undervalued college sports. ESPN and FOX and NBC and CBS are going to get their product and they're going to fight each other over it. The only way I can see that will avoid politicial massive fallout, or class action lawsuits, and still retain at some level the essence of where we were more-or-less happily 20 years ago is the megaconference. It is absolute revenue maximization while still retaining very strong regional, local, and historic games of interest.

I don't get threads like this.

Not saying that it's not possible but any means, but history proves that such mergers will not happen and won't happen. Even between 2009 and 2012 (during one of the most active realignment periods ever), such extreme realignment (that's being proposed here) just doesn't happen. The Big XII lost 4 teams (A&M & Mizzou to the SEC, Colorado to the Pac 12, Nebraska to the B1G), the Big East lost 4 teams (WVU to the B12, Pitt, Syracuse, and Louisville to the ACC, and Rutgers to the B1G) and the ACC lost one team (Maryland to the B1G). All in all that meant that the B1G gained 3, the ACC gained 3 and lost 1, and the B12 lost 4 and gained two. During this realignment period a B12/Big East rumor was out there and apparently there was some air port meeting. I can't say if that B12/Big East merger was going to happen or not either. Then after the schools left the Big East, the remnants might have had talks with the MWC school about a potential merger, and guess what, nothing really happened.

What really is in it for the SEC to merge with the ACC? I see zero reasons for the SEC to add FSU & Georgia Tech. Sh*t, I see zero reason for Notre Dame to join the SEC, in today's current format; although, the SEC adding Texas could change that for ND.

It used to be fun chatting realignment and the several possibilities out there. Sh*t is just getting far too hyperbolic for me and 99% of this feels like people throwing darts on the wall hoping it sticks.

I'm hoping for the B1G/PAC/ACC/SEC "merger" to Division 4. Absorb Big 12 and 5 call-ups (Cincinnati, UCF, BYU, Houston, and UConn). 70 teams total. Get semi-finals into the Conference Championship tournament and break things down to 4-5 team divisions - everyone has a chance - enhances the regular season and attendance/ratings.

Here's how I would break it down:

SEC (16 teams)
WEST: LSU, Texas A&M, Arkansas, Missouri,
EAST: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt,
NORTH: South Carolina, NC State, Virginia Tech, Kentucky
SOUTH: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi St

9-game sked, 3 intra and 6 cross-division (2 each), plus one Div. 4 OOC

B1G (20 teams)
WEST: Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Kansas
CENTRAL: Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
EAST: Michigan, Michigan St., Ohio St., Penn St., Rutgers
SOUTH: Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech

10-game sked, 4 intra, 6 cross-division (2 each), plus one Div. 4 OOC

PAC: (16 teams)
NORTHWEST: Oregon, Oregon St., Washington, Washington St.
WEST: USC, UCLA, Stanford, California
MOUNTAIN: ASU, Arizona, Utah, Colorado
EAST: Texas Tech, Houston, Kansas St., BYU

9-game sked, 3 intra and the 6 cross-division (2 each), plus one Div. 4 OOC

ACC: (18 teams)
WEST: Baylor, TCU, Iowa St., Oklahoma St.
CENTRAL: Louisville, Cincinnati, Wake Forest, WVU
NORTH: Syracuse, Pitt, Boston College, UConn
SOUTH: FSU, Miami, UCF, Clemson
Notre Dame and Texas - football independents, ACC Olympic sports members

9-game sked, 3 intra and the 6 cross-division (2 each) - plus one Div. 4 OOC,
including ND and Texas (ND = 2 from North, TX = 2 from West, then rotate 3 among the other divisions (1 each)

Conference Championship: semi-finals - at home field of higher ranked division winners, Thanksgiving weekend; Championship games the first weekend of December

CFP Round 1: weekend/week before Christmas - at home field of the four Div. 4 Champions; wild cards and seeding by Selection Committee

CFP Semi-Finals: NY6/CFP system - status quo

CFP Championship: status quo

FCS EXHIBITION games in August (or Spring) only. Exhibition = do not count against schedule or for win-loss record. So, Division 4 only play regular season games against FBS.

EDIT: Championship/CFP Alternative:

Allow 2 Wild Cards in each Conference Championship tournament; CFP is simply the four Div. 4 Champions. (ND and Texas eligible as ACC wild cards)

First Weekend December: 2 wild cards at #3 and #4 Division Winners.

Second Weekend December: Round 1 winners at #1 and #2 Division Winners.

Weekend/Week before Christmas: Conference Championship Game at neutral site

CFP: NY6/CFP as status quo

With a simple move ESPN could rule college football forever.
I would have the SEC "sell" Missouri and Arkansas to the Big 12.
Then they could set up an extensive blended network over multiple platforms to include the Big 12 (12), SEC(12) and ACC(14 +1).

I would do it this way, put Oklahoma in the SEC & go to 3x5. Put Kansas in the B1G & go to 3x5. The ACC gets Texas & ND all in & go to 2x8. The PAC gets TT, TCU & Oklahoma St go to 3x5.

SEC
East
Florida
Georgia
S Carolina
Tennessee
Vandy

Central
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi St
Ole Miss

West
A&M
Oklahoma
Missouri
Arkansas
Kentucky

B1G
East
Penn St
Michigan
Michigan St
Maryland
Rutgers

Central
Ohio St
Wisconsin
Indiana
Purdue
Illinois

West
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Kansas
Northwestern

ACC
West
Texas
ND
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
BC
VT
WF

East
FSU
Clemson
GT
Miami
NC
Duke
Virginia
NC St

PAC
West
TT
TCU
Oklahoma St
Colorado
Utah

South
USC
UCLA
Arizona
Arizona St
Stanford

North
Cal
Oregon
Oregon St
Washington
Washington St

Everyone plays a 4 team CC & winners go to the CFP.

(08-12-2015 08:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  With a simple move ESPN could rule college football forever.
I would have the SEC "sell" Missouri and Arkansas to the Big 12.
Then they could set up an extensive blended network over multiple platforms to include the Big 12 (12), SEC(12) and ACC(14 +1).

I think Texas and Oklahoma would agree that this isn't welfare for basketball schools. So no thank you.