(07-23-2015 02:55 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 02:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If Netflix or Amazon has their own streaming video for $10/month, I question whether half the U.S. households would pay $40/month for a Disney/ESPN bundle.

That price will not stay. Have you seen the cost of the deals recently made by Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu? As they have eroded DVD and video sales, studios have charged them much, much more, for rights, and their subscription fees will go way up, once they have to renew deals.

Also, if and when networks move to more online platforms, they will simply stop selling their stuff to Netflix and keep it in-house, which will fundamentally change how they operate.

I was going to make the same point, in regards to TV. (haven't even considered movies)

Netflix, et al might be good, cheap alternative just for "old" content that isn't as valuable to the content studios.

But even then ... it's just as easy for the studios to warehouse all of their content under their own branded streaming apps (on the various platforms).


OR, like what I was suggesting, you could use any app, any device and even any service (such as Netflix) ... but it would always require that you log-in with your _____ account to watch content from that company.

Get it? It's like checking your license, each and every time you try to stream content from that company, regardless how you do it.



For example, let's say I want to watch the Daily Show on my Apple TV via the "Comedy Central NOW" app (I made that up).

Ok, so you click into the app, browse the full list of every episode until you find a good one. Click "play" ... ok here comes the Viacom account login script ... it logged in ... my account is active ... ok now the content is playing on my device.

Same for any device, any platform and even within third-party services (Netflix would not be able to play the content until the Viacom account checked out).

(07-23-2015 02:55 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 02:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If Netflix or Amazon has their own streaming video for $10/month, I question whether half the U.S. households would pay $40/month for a Disney/ESPN bundle.

That price will not stay. Have you seen the cost of the deals recently made by Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu? As they have eroded DVD and video sales, studios have charged them much, much more, for rights, and their subscription fees will go way up, once they have to renew deals.

Also, if and when networks move to more online platforms, they will simply stop selling their stuff to Netflix and keep it in-house, which will fundamentally change how they operate.

If they stop selling to Netflix then consumers will just pay the studio rather than Netflix. Either way the limit on what they can charge is what consumers will pay, and if Disney tries to charge $40/month to watch movies from their catalog and another $40/month to watch Disney TV channels plus ESPN channels, they are not going to have nearly as many subscribers as the cable/satellite companies have today.

But losing subscribers can be cost effective. Every Netflix subscriber has an acquisition cost, retention cost, and a usage cost.

I would bet that 1% of Netflix subscribers are no less than 10% of their delivery cost and probably higher than that.

If you can sell 75,000 seats at $50 per but only 60,000 at $75 you are better off selling 60,000 other than how it looks to have 15,000 empty seats.

If I'm Disney and I can get 1/3rd of the Netflix subscribers to pay $40 a month for my content they are distributing now, I take that deal.

(07-23-2015 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 08:21 AM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 07:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll try one last time:

Nebraskafan, why is a (supposed) fan of a school that hightailed it out of the XII, for their own good, so adamant on shouting down everyone who says that the XII is not going to survive??


But you ignored my question in two other threads, so I don't expect you to expose your true agenda now.

What question? I work for a living and don't read every post. So, what question you have?

What does Nebraska being in the B1G have anything to do with the current environment of GOR's????????

Your post is very odd.

You read it just fine in the previous two threads. Just like you avoided it here.

The question, as it was plainly stated multiple times: why are you so adamant on making sure the XII is going to survive??

In other words, a Nebraska fan should be rooting for the demise of that conference.

Here is my take on Nebraska fan. He hates Oklahoma and does not want to see them advance to the Big10 (with Nebraska) or the PAC or SEC. He does not slam Boren, instead he slams OU and their fans.

IMO he would like to see OU have to remain in a conference diluted by adding G5 schools.

Most Nebraska fans had a healthy respect for OU and the rivalry. However, some younger fans, a very few IMO, grew up in a generation of hate your rival.

(07-23-2015 03:19 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 08:21 AM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 07:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll try one last time:

Nebraskafan, why is a (supposed) fan of a school that hightailed it out of the XII, for their own good, so adamant on shouting down everyone who says that the XII is not going to survive??


But you ignored my question in two other threads, so I don't expect you to expose your true agenda now.

What question? I work for a living and don't read every post. So, what question you have?

What does Nebraska being in the B1G have anything to do with the current environment of GOR's????????

Your post is very odd.

You read it just fine in the previous two threads. Just like you avoided it here.

The question, as it was plainly stated multiple times: why are you so adamant on making sure the XII is going to survive??

In other words, a Nebraska fan should be rooting for the demise of that conference.

Here is my take on Nebraska fan. He hates Oklahoma and does not want to see them advance to the Big10 (with Nebraska) or the PAC or SEC. He does not slam Boren, instead he slams OU and their fans.

IMO he would like to see OU have to remain in a conference diluted by adding G5 schools.

Most Nebraska fans had a healthy respect for OU and the rivalry. However, some younger fans, a very few IMO, grew up in a generation of hate your rival.

Where on earth do you get that I hate Oklahoma? Some people make some really odd posts. I haven't even said a single thing about Oklahoma as a football program. I enjoy watching them.

Their fans are bickering like crazy though because they are struggling at the moment and some think they can just announce a change of conference at 9PM CT tonight. Not that simple.

If there is a football program that I don't like, it is South Carolina.

(07-23-2015 03:19 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 08:21 AM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 07:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll try one last time:

Nebraskafan, why is a (supposed) fan of a school that hightailed it out of the XII, for their own good, so adamant on shouting down everyone who says that the XII is not going to survive??


But you ignored my question in two other threads, so I don't expect you to expose your true agenda now.

What question? I work for a living and don't read every post. So, what question you have?

What does Nebraska being in the B1G have anything to do with the current environment of GOR's????????

Your post is very odd.

You read it just fine in the previous two threads. Just like you avoided it here.

The question, as it was plainly stated multiple times: why are you so adamant on making sure the XII is going to survive??

In other words, a Nebraska fan should be rooting for the demise of that conference.

He hates Oklahoma

(07-23-2015 03:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 02:55 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 02:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  If Netflix or Amazon has their own streaming video for $10/month, I question whether half the U.S. households would pay $40/month for a Disney/ESPN bundle.

That price will not stay. Have you seen the cost of the deals recently made by Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu? As they have eroded DVD and video sales, studios have charged them much, much more, for rights, and their subscription fees will go way up, once they have to renew deals.

Also, if and when networks move to more online platforms, they will simply stop selling their stuff to Netflix and keep it in-house, which will fundamentally change how they operate.

If they stop selling to Netflix then consumers will just pay the studio rather than Netflix. Either way the limit on what they can charge is what consumers will pay, and if Disney tries to charge $40/month to watch movies from their catalog and another $40/month to watch Disney TV channels plus ESPN channels, they are not going to have nearly as many subscribers as the cable/satellite companies have today.

But the point is, the content studios can start charging customers a single, monthly fee for access to their entire libraries of content.

Rather than selling individual access option to individual consumers.


If cable made more money bundling, why wouldn't streaming work in a similar fashion?


I'm not saying I want that, I'm just saying that's where it might be heading.

(07-23-2015 03:37 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:19 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 08:21 AM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 07:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I'll try one last time:

Nebraskafan, why is a (supposed) fan of a school that hightailed it out of the XII, for their own good, so adamant on shouting down everyone who says that the XII is not going to survive??


But you ignored my question in two other threads, so I don't expect you to expose your true agenda now.

What question? I work for a living and don't read every post. So, what question you have?

What does Nebraska being in the B1G have anything to do with the current environment of GOR's????????

Your post is very odd.

You read it just fine in the previous two threads. Just like you avoided it here.

The question, as it was plainly stated multiple times: why are you so adamant on making sure the XII is going to survive??

In other words, a Nebraska fan should be rooting for the demise of that conference.

Here is my take on Nebraska fan. He hates Oklahoma and does not want to see them advance to the Big10 (with Nebraska) or the PAC or SEC. He does not slam Boren, instead he slams OU and their fans.

IMO he would like to see OU have to remain in a conference diluted by adding G5 schools.

Most Nebraska fans had a healthy respect for OU and the rivalry. However, some younger fans, a very few IMO, grew up in a generation of hate your rival.

Where on earth do you get that I hate Oklahoma? Some people make some really odd posts. I haven't even said a single thing about Oklahoma as a football program. I enjoy watching them.

Their fans are bickering like crazy though because they are struggling at the moment and some think they can just announce a change of conference at 9PM CT tonight. Not that simple.

If there is a football program that I don't like, it is South Carolina.

I was sure you would deny your hate for Oklahoma, but your posts give you away.

Arkstfan one of the most knowledgeable posters on this board with a 431 reputation, put it pure and simple.....You hate Oklahoma.

(07-23-2015 12:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 12:21 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  http://www.scribd.com/doc/116756116/Grant-of-Rights-pdf

Here is the whole GOR for the Big 12. A whopping 4 pages and vague enough to go to court to see what sticks and what doesn't.

http://sportspolitico.com/2015/02/16/wil...ure-raids/
Accompanying link for the article discussing the GOR

A couple quotes.
"The Big 12 GOR is most commonly described as a contractual agreement between the ten schools that makeup the Big 12. The GOR uses the existing TV rights of each member as a hostage to prevent any member from leaving for a new conference. The agreement is usually perceived as being a rock solid contractual agreement that is impossible to get out of.

Contrary to popular opinion, that last sentence is untrue. The Big 12 Grant of Rights is a little over four pages long. (1) It is an incredibly short contract for an agreement involving millions of dollars. The Grant of Rights further does itself no favors by having text that is filled with ambiguity. But the absolute killer for the GOR as a contract is the omission of a termination procedure as well as a damages clause."

"The GOR is designed to be open-ended and prone to multiple interpretations. It is in this way that the agreement gains its strength. Rather than acting as a roadblock, the agreement acts as a long, windy, and uncertain pathway that attempts to discourage schools from leaving by making an exit longer and/or more complicated.

"The GOR won’t be able to hold the conference together. If the Big 12 stays intact over the coming years it will do so because the other P5 schools were either unwilling to invite a Big 12 member outright, or the P5 conference in question did not offer terms that the prospective Big 12 member found acceptable."

This guy writes on sports. Does he have any background that makes him more qualified to opine than you or I?

The first guy who wrote that GORs were worthless was an actual attorney from Arizona who dealt in contract law and was widely ridiculed by attorneys who understood that GORs were different than straight contract law.

who was the AZ guy?

(07-23-2015 04:00 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:37 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:19 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 08:21 AM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  What question? I work for a living and don't read every post. So, what question you have?

What does Nebraska being in the B1G have anything to do with the current environment of GOR's????????

Your post is very odd.

You read it just fine in the previous two threads. Just like you avoided it here.

The question, as it was plainly stated multiple times: why are you so adamant on making sure the XII is going to survive??

In other words, a Nebraska fan should be rooting for the demise of that conference.

Here is my take on Nebraska fan. He hates Oklahoma and does not want to see them advance to the Big10 (with Nebraska) or the PAC or SEC. He does not slam Boren, instead he slams OU and their fans.

IMO he would like to see OU have to remain in a conference diluted by adding G5 schools.

Most Nebraska fans had a healthy respect for OU and the rivalry. However, some younger fans, a very few IMO, grew up in a generation of hate your rival.

Where on earth do you get that I hate Oklahoma? Some people make some really odd posts. I haven't even said a single thing about Oklahoma as a football program. I enjoy watching them.

Their fans are bickering like crazy though because they are struggling at the moment and some think they can just announce a change of conference at 9PM CT tonight. Not that simple.

If there is a football program that I don't like, it is South Carolina.

I was sure you would deny your hate for Oklahoma, but your posts give you away.

Arkstfan one of the most knowledgeable posters on this board with a 431 reputation, put it pure and simple.....You hate Oklahoma.

You are crazy. I would love to see Oklahoma in the B1G. Yep, I hate Oklahoma so much my blood boils. lol.

(07-23-2015 04:12 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 04:00 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:37 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:19 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 10:18 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  You read it just fine in the previous two threads. Just like you avoided it here.

The question, as it was plainly stated multiple times: why are you so adamant on making sure the XII is going to survive??

In other words, a Nebraska fan should be rooting for the demise of that conference.

Here is my take on Nebraska fan. He hates Oklahoma and does not want to see them advance to the Big10 (with Nebraska) or the PAC or SEC. He does not slam Boren, instead he slams OU and their fans.

IMO he would like to see OU have to remain in a conference diluted by adding G5 schools.

Most Nebraska fans had a healthy respect for OU and the rivalry. However, some younger fans, a very few IMO, grew up in a generation of hate your rival.

Where on earth do you get that I hate Oklahoma? Some people make some really odd posts. I haven't even said a single thing about Oklahoma as a football program. I enjoy watching them.

Their fans are bickering like crazy though because they are struggling at the moment and some think they can just announce a change of conference at 9PM CT tonight. Not that simple.

If there is a football program that I don't like, it is South Carolina.

I was sure you would deny your hate for Oklahoma, but your posts give you away.

Arkstfan one of the most knowledgeable posters on this board with a 431 reputation, put it pure and simple.....You hate Oklahoma.

You are crazy. I would love to see Oklahoma in the B1G. Yep, I hate Oklahoma so much my blood boils. lol.

Yeah ...right.

(07-23-2015 02:15 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 01:38 PM)Dasville Wrote:  If the original Beatles had a GoR, could they have still invited Ringo?
Which choice would have been Best?

The original Beatles did have a GOR. That was how Michael Jackson ended up owning their rights. They had a GOR, for a lack of a better term, assigned to a company they all jointly owned. The later sold the company, and their future rights, for a large sum to Sony, who eventually sold/transferred them to Michael Jackson.

And?

Was Pete part of the GoR and still got booted?
Did George, if he disagreed with the rest, not have an option to leave the band with no penalty at the point where a vote was taken?
When partners change, you have an option.
If terms or partners change, you just don't sign those rights away without options.
Unless the contract allows that.
Did Texas and Oklahoma sign off on allowing the big 12 to take them in any direction the rest choose?
I don't think so.
But perhaps they did.

(07-23-2015 04:16 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 04:12 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 04:00 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:37 PM)Nebraskafan Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 03:19 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  Here is my take on Nebraska fan. He hates Oklahoma and does not want to see them advance to the Big10 (with Nebraska) or the PAC or SEC. He does not slam Boren, instead he slams OU and their fans.

IMO he would like to see OU have to remain in a conference diluted by adding G5 schools.

Most Nebraska fans had a healthy respect for OU and the rivalry. However, some younger fans, a very few IMO, grew up in a generation of hate your rival.

Where on earth do you get that I hate Oklahoma? Some people make some really odd posts. I haven't even said a single thing about Oklahoma as a football program. I enjoy watching them.

Their fans are bickering like crazy though because they are struggling at the moment and some think they can just announce a change of conference at 9PM CT tonight. Not that simple.

If there is a football program that I don't like, it is South Carolina.

I was sure you would deny your hate for Oklahoma, but your posts give you away.

Arkstfan one of the most knowledgeable posters on this board with a 431 reputation, put it pure and simple.....You hate Oklahoma.

You are crazy. I would love to see Oklahoma in the B1G. Yep, I hate Oklahoma so much my blood boils. lol.

Yeah ...right.

You are the one that is posting crazy stuff.

(07-23-2015 04:21 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 02:15 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 01:38 PM)Dasville Wrote:  If the original Beatles had a GoR, could they have still invited Ringo?
Which choice would have been Best?

The original Beatles did have a GOR. That was how Michael Jackson ended up owning their rights. They had a GOR, for a lack of a better term, assigned to a company they all jointly owned. The later sold the company, and their future rights, for a large sum to Sony, who eventually sold/transferred them to Michael Jackson.

And?

Was Pete part of the GoR and still got booted?
Did George, if he disagreed with the rest, not have an option to leave the band with no penalty at the point where a vote was taken?
When partners change, you have an option.
If terms or partners change, you just don't sign those rights away without options.
Unless the contract allows that.
Did Texas and Oklahoma sign off on allowing the big 12 to take them in any direction the rest choose?
I don't think so.
But perhaps they did.

In music group rights and individual rights are different. So it's not comparable. One reason you see the lead singer of a group sometimes go "solo," and then have the former group as backup singers, is it allows them to get around existing contracts, and sign a new one with more leverage. So if someone left the Beatles they'd be free to record as a solo artist and not be tied to the GOR. So it's not an apt comparison.

My only questions are;

1. What is the intrinsic value that the Grant of Rights is meant to protect.

2. Who assigned said value and for what purpose.

3. If the Value is based upon a contract with a specified payment. Does it pay/treat all entities equally.

I'd say in the above lies a couple loopholes.

Is the OP the author of the article?

(07-23-2015 07:12 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Is the OP the author of the article?

No. Posted link to article.

They took the article down or it was moved somewhere else. Oh well. Article is still in the original post.

(07-23-2015 07:00 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  My only questions are;

1. What is the intrinsic value that the Grant of Rights is meant to protect.

It's in the eye of the purchasing network, right? If I purchase rights to the Jackson 5, I want to know what 5 I'm buying. And, I'm willing to pay more for that.

I'll cut 1 check, and then it's up to them to divide it.

(07-23-2015 08:03 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(07-23-2015 07:00 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  My only questions are;

1. What is the intrinsic value that the Grant of Rights is meant to protect.

It's in the eye of the purchasing network, right? If I purchase rights to the Jackson 5, I want to know what 5 I'm buying. And, I'm willing to pay more for that.

Exactly except per the released info from the Big 12 media days, any additional teams would be paid the same as the existing teams. This can be construed as all teams being equal in value. Now if that can be shown by the wording of the Network Contracts, then any team can leave as long as they are replaced without showing loss to the Conference. Thus the GOR is worthless.

Sigh. I'm ready to be bashed.