Andjust what did tne restrest of the world get out of this deal?

(07-14-2015 09:47 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Obama gets his piece of paper, which is essentially worthless. 14 day notice for inspections? Are you kidding?

We are now with Iran where we were with Saddam. Except Iran is a much bigger country with many more places to hide.

This is Obama's Sudetenland.

14 days for inspections of new sites. While it's relatively easy to move WMD's that are already made, it's a lot harder to build a facility for nuclear weapons and accomplish something with it in that short a period of time. So in that respect it's a little different. That said, I'd have to understand that part better. I'd like to hear the opinion of the nuclear physicists that were involved in the deal.

(07-14-2015 10:15 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:14 AM)BobL Wrote:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/his...story.html


the 14 day notification applies only to undeclared sites...
enrichment level max 3.67%

new U.N. resolution will incorporate all existing sanctions resolutions and lift them once the International Atomic Energy Agency certifies it has met its commitments under the deal.

Separately, negotiators agreed to an ongoing eight-year missile ban, and continuing prohibitions on most conventional weapons sales for five years — though either could theoretically be lifted earlier if the IAEA completes all its investigations more quickly than usual.

Under the agreement, Iran will commit to the Additional Protocol of the international nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which allows IAEA inspectors to demand access to any site in the country, including military facilities.

Once it submits a request to Iran to visit an “undeclared” facility, the IAEA and Iran will have 14 days to agree, either to IAEA access to the site or satisfaction of inspector concerns by some other means.

Great. So we trust Iran to be honest and tell us where all their nuclear sites are?

Good, because I thought for a second Obama got bent over the negotiation table.

No, we don't, which is why we'll continue to use our intelligence and technology to monitor the situation on top of this agreement. This sort of complaint just seems entirely disingenuous to me, it's almost implying that Obama is giving up his ability to monitor the nuclear program outside of this and that at one point we had control over Irans nuclear program. Neither one is accurate.

I seriously doubt it will ever bee seen as some diplomatic coup, but I don't know exactly what else you'd expect given the facts as they are.

If they can build bombs in places that we don't know about, then the only way we could stop them would be to invade and occupy the entire country. You couldn't bomb them, because you wouldn't know where to bomb. And that's assuming it isn't underground.

(07-14-2015 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  If they can build bombs in places that we don't know about, then the only way we could stop them would be to invade and occupy the entire country. You couldn't bomb them, because you wouldn't know where to bomb. And that's assuming it isn't underground.

Exactly Obama's line of thinking. So, cool, Iran gets the bomb now.

Good job, team!

(07-14-2015 02:25 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  If they can build bombs in places that we don't know about, then the only way we could stop them would be to invade and occupy the entire country. You couldn't bomb them, because you wouldn't know where to bomb. And that's assuming it isn't underground.

Exactly Obama's line of thinking. So, cool, Iran gets the bomb now.

Good job, team!

So you'd rather invade Iran and occupy the entire country. And then the Republicans would still complain about some people defrauding welfare instead of the hundreds of billions we'd spend on another war.

(07-14-2015 02:25 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  If they can build bombs in places that we don't know about, then the only way we could stop them would be to invade and occupy the entire country. You couldn't bomb them, because you wouldn't know where to bomb. And that's assuming it isn't underground.

Exactly Obama's line of thinking. So, cool, Iran gets the bomb now.

Good job, team!

I hope you're embarrassed of this post.

(07-14-2015 02:27 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:25 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  If they can build bombs in places that we don't know about, then the only way we could stop them would be to invade and occupy the entire country. You couldn't bomb them, because you wouldn't know where to bomb. And that's assuming it isn't underground.

Exactly Obama's line of thinking. So, cool, Iran gets the bomb now.

Good job, team!

So you'd rather invade Iran and occupy the entire country. And then the Republicans would still complain about some people defrauding welfare instead of the hundreds of billions we'd spend on another war.

If it was always inevitable that Iran would get the bomb, and that the only way we'd be able to prevent that is a full invasion/occupation of the country, why not just come out and say that? Why blow smoke up our ass and tell us that he's cut off all pathways to the bomb, when we know, you know, and HE knows that's an utter crock of ****. This "deal" has been a waste of time and has accomplished nothing.

(07-14-2015 02:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:15 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:14 AM)BobL Wrote:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/his...story.html


the 14 day notification applies only to undeclared sites...
enrichment level max 3.67%

new U.N. resolution will incorporate all existing sanctions resolutions and lift them once the International Atomic Energy Agency certifies it has met its commitments under the deal.

Separately, negotiators agreed to an ongoing eight-year missile ban, and continuing prohibitions on most conventional weapons sales for five years — though either could theoretically be lifted earlier if the IAEA completes all its investigations more quickly than usual.

Under the agreement, Iran will commit to the Additional Protocol of the international nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which allows IAEA inspectors to demand access to any site in the country, including military facilities.

Once it submits a request to Iran to visit an “undeclared” facility, the IAEA and Iran will have 14 days to agree, either to IAEA access to the site or satisfaction of inspector concerns by some other means.

Great. So we trust Iran to be honest and tell us where all their nuclear sites are?

Good, because I thought for a second Obama got bent over the negotiation table.

No, we don't, which is why we'll continue to use our intelligence and technology to monitor the situation on top of this agreement. This sort of complaint just seems entirely disingenuous to me, it's almost implying that Obama is giving up his ability to monitor the nuclear program outside of this and that at one point we had control over Irans nuclear program. Neither one is accurate.

I seriously doubt it will ever bee seen as some diplomatic coup, but I don't know exactly what else you'd expect given the facts as they are.

I think the expectation was that whatever agreement the Obama administration reached would include the necessary provisions to preclude Iran from getting nuclear weapons. The problem is that outside of military engagement, its impossible to enforce such a restriction. Thus this agreement appears to be little more than a fig leaf; a means of providing political cover for an unstoppable eventuality.

(07-14-2015 02:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:15 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:14 AM)BobL Wrote:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/his...story.html


the 14 day notification applies only to undeclared sites...
enrichment level max 3.67%

new U.N. resolution will incorporate all existing sanctions resolutions and lift them once the International Atomic Energy Agency certifies it has met its commitments under the deal.

Separately, negotiators agreed to an ongoing eight-year missile ban, and continuing prohibitions on most conventional weapons sales for five years — though either could theoretically be lifted earlier if the IAEA completes all its investigations more quickly than usual.

Under the agreement, Iran will commit to the Additional Protocol of the international nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which allows IAEA inspectors to demand access to any site in the country, including military facilities.

Once it submits a request to Iran to visit an “undeclared” facility, the IAEA and Iran will have 14 days to agree, either to IAEA access to the site or satisfaction of inspector concerns by some other means.

Great. So we trust Iran to be honest and tell us where all their nuclear sites are?

Good, because I thought for a second Obama got bent over the negotiation table.

No, we don't, which is why we'll continue to use our intelligence and technology to monitor the situation on top of this agreement. This sort of complaint just seems entirely disingenuous to me, it's almost implying that Obama is giving up his ability to monitor the nuclear program outside of this and that at one point we had control over Irans nuclear program. Neither one is accurate.

I seriously doubt it will ever bee seen as some diplomatic coup, but I don't know exactly what else you'd expect given the facts as they are.

I think the expectation was that whatever agreement the Obama administration reached would include the necessary provisions to preclude Iran from getting nuclear weapons. The problem is that outside of military engagement, its impossible to enforce such a restriction. Thus this agreement appears to be little more than a fig leaf; a means of providing political cover for an unstoppable eventuality.

So, it was smart diplomacy? Good to hear.

It really just isn't that big of a deal.

If this had normalized relations with Iran or been some massive tectonic shift I'd be happy. I think we need to change 30 years of failed policy. That said, that isn't what we got.

In lieu of that, I'd be happy if they at least achieved our aims and interests which center around them not getting a bomb. Well, they failed at that too. This is just a slow down, and by most estimates it means a year at most.

Well, seeing as I won't be happy with points one or two then I would at least like to be fine on my own front. And, I'm not because about the only thing this has achieved is the flooding of the market with another 30 million barrels of crude and added another 500,000-750,000 bpd in production by year's end. All meaning the price of oil will continue to drop. That isn't good for the country right now.

All in all, a pretty ****** deal, as usual, from the incompetent in chief and his nerf herding lackey.

(07-14-2015 02:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:15 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:14 AM)BobL Wrote:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/his...story.html


the 14 day notification applies only to undeclared sites...
enrichment level max 3.67%

new U.N. resolution will incorporate all existing sanctions resolutions and lift them once the International Atomic Energy Agency certifies it has met its commitments under the deal.

Separately, negotiators agreed to an ongoing eight-year missile ban, and continuing prohibitions on most conventional weapons sales for five years — though either could theoretically be lifted earlier if the IAEA completes all its investigations more quickly than usual.

Under the agreement, Iran will commit to the Additional Protocol of the international nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which allows IAEA inspectors to demand access to any site in the country, including military facilities.

Once it submits a request to Iran to visit an “undeclared” facility, the IAEA and Iran will have 14 days to agree, either to IAEA access to the site or satisfaction of inspector concerns by some other means.

Great. So we trust Iran to be honest and tell us where all their nuclear sites are?

Good, because I thought for a second Obama got bent over the negotiation table.

No, we don't, which is why we'll continue to use our intelligence and technology to monitor the situation on top of this agreement. This sort of complaint just seems entirely disingenuous to me, it's almost implying that Obama is giving up his ability to monitor the nuclear program outside of this and that at one point we had control over Irans nuclear program. Neither one is accurate.

I seriously doubt it will ever bee seen as some diplomatic coup, but I don't know exactly what else you'd expect given the facts as they are.

I think the expectation was that whatever agreement the Obama administration reached would include the necessary provisions to preclude Iran from getting nuclear weapons. The problem is that outside of military engagement, its impossible to enforce such a restriction. Thus this agreement appears to be little more than a fig leaf; a means of providing political cover for an unstoppable eventuality.

At best we can slow down their building of nuclear weapons.

(07-14-2015 02:32 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I think the expectation was that whatever agreement the Obama administration reached would include the necessary provisions to preclude Iran from getting nuclear weapons. The problem is that outside of military engagement, its impossible to enforce such a restriction. Thus this agreement appears to be little more than a fig leaf; a means of providing political cover for an unstoppable eventuality.

So, it was smart diplomacy? Good to hear.

Smart party policy that isn't going to cost Obama any foreign political capital. When Iran tests a nuclear weapon next year everyone will be able to say 'at least we tried.'

(07-14-2015 02:33 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:30 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  I think the expectation was that whatever agreement the Obama administration reached would include the necessary provisions to preclude Iran from getting nuclear weapons. The problem is that outside of military engagement, its impossible to enforce such a restriction. Thus this agreement appears to be little more than a fig leaf; a means of providing political cover for an unstoppable eventuality.

At best we can slow down their building of nuclear weapons.

Only if inspections are insisted upon. But as evident buy the Stuxnet episode, getting fissionable material really isn't Iran's problem anymore. Western focus should be intensified on delivery systems instead.

So, under this "agreement" how soon are the sanctions lifted and the billions freed up? So Iran can go back to paying top dollar to Hamas to bomb Israel, the Houti's (sp) to finish overrunning Yemen (the BIG success story), continuing their support of the murderous thug Al-Assad, and the other groups killing Americans and waging war all over the ME?

And anyone that believes those sanctions can just be "snapped back" once China, Russia and others are back in there selling billions worth of guns, ammo, artillery, and whatever other "products" and contracts are in place is simply a fool.

I'm looking at you Kerry/zerO.

It's a win-win for the parties involved. Obama gets a piece of paper that he can wave. Iran gets nukes, which they were going to get anyway. "Peace in our time," said Neville Chamberlain.

The really interesting part will be how the outsiders to the negotiations will respond. I would expect the Saudis to have nukes before Iran (if they don't have them already). The reactions of the other Arabs will be interesting, because at the end of the day they are threatened by this more than Israel.

Indeed, Peace in our time.

And a nuclear arms race ALL over the ME. What could possibly go wrong there? No potential bad actors over there trying to take advantage...

(07-14-2015 09:29 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Thanks Obama! Another massive feather in the cap of a great president.

Sorry haters.

Ayatollahs with the bomb ... Thanks, Obama.

Iran is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. It is evil.

And Obama caved to them. What an ass.

(07-14-2015 08:11 AM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Utterly ridiculous. Israel will take the lead going forward with Saudi Arabia.

Another example of how we are weak internationally and negotiations.

News flash. .....conservatives don't like it.

Intelligent people can disagree on obamacare, taxes, guns, etc. that is all fair. But what I find laughable is that there are some who believe that the U.S., UK, Germany and France would sign an agreement that did not make it much more difficult for Iran to develop nuclear weapons. Some folks put their political adgenda and interest ahead of the best interest of the U.S. And the rest of the world. Read the agreement, we can debate details, but only a moron would think the leaders of these 5 countries would sign a deal that was not In our collective best interest as free democratic nations.