http://csnbbs.com/thread-740927.html
thats how bama has raised its fcoa by altering the numbers.
if they can get away with it who else will and when will it stop.

It's funny with the posturing by some schools that are publicly saying that FCOA hasn't been an issue and that kids are not considering it much.

It's early,once things get rolling and firm numbers come out by institutions it will be a larger issue.Not for the $50 less/month schools but the schools giving $100 +/month over other schools will be impacted.Speculating further,conferences with less tradition and "wow" factor in facilities (G5) recruits will use the number more to make up for the lack of P5 interest.

I will concede in the advent of Pell Grant reduction against FCOA it may equalize the disparity some and mathematically not be as impactful with lower income recruits as I think.Not sure how Pell Grants play into this but i thought I heard they would be counted against FCOA

(06-29-2015 07:20 AM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  It's funny with the posturing by some schools that are publicly saying that FCOA hasn't been an issue and that kids are not considering it much.

It's early,once things get rolling and firm numbers come out by institutions it will be a larger issue.Not for the $50 less/month schools but the schools giving $100 +/month over other schools will be impacted.Speculating further,conferences with less tradition and "wow" factor in facilities (G5) recruits will use the number more to make up for the lack of P5 interest.

I will concede in the advent of Pell Grant reduction against FCOA it may equalize the disparity some and mathematically not be as impactful with lower income recruits as I think.Not sure how Pell Grants play into this but i thought I heard they would be counted against FCOA

Is the Pell Grant used now to help cover Scholarships? Do we normally pay the difference between what Pell will pay and the price of tuition/books plus dorm/meal plan?

How will the COA affect walk ons?

(06-29-2015 07:29 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 07:20 AM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  It's funny with the posturing by some schools that are publicly saying that FCOA hasn't been an issue and that kids are not considering it much.

It's early,once things get rolling and firm numbers come out by institutions it will be a larger issue.Not for the $50 less/month schools but the schools giving $100 +/month over other schools will be impacted.Speculating further,conferences with less tradition and "wow" factor in facilities (G5) recruits will use the number more to make up for the lack of P5 interest.

I will concede in the advent of Pell Grant reduction against FCOA it may equalize the disparity some and mathematically not be as impactful with lower income recruits as I think.Not sure how Pell Grants play into this but i thought I heard they would be counted against FCOA

Is the Pell Grant used now to help cover Scholarships? Do we normally pay the difference between what Pell will pay and the price of tuition/books plus dorm/meal plan?

How will the COA affect walk ons?

Here is an interesting article about Pell grants and athletes in Alabama. http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/...ivisi.html

Pell is based on COA, among other factors, as well - so if an institution is providing 100% COA then I don't think Pell will give anything to the student.

If schools start jacking COA it will be applied to all students - if this starts making overall Pell budget grow then the Feds may take notice.

Walk-ons aren't supposed to receive any COA money from the school, but an increased COA figure allows them to qualify for more aid - grants, scholarships, or subsidized loans.

COA will not apply to non scholarship players and schools will have the option to use only "head count" sports that give full aid to that limited number or break up all scholarships (roughly 225) and give COA to the percentage of full aid they are receiving.

Regarding Pell,I'm thinking that kids that fully qualify for the 5500 will get the additional over the COA.Only a few schools have a COA over the Pell Grant max ie. Auburn,Tennessee

(06-29-2015 09:31 AM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  Regarding Pell,I'm thinking that kids that fully qualify for the 5500 will get the additional over the COA.Only a few schools have a COA over the Pell Grant max ie. Auburn,Tennessee

I think Pell only covers for cost of attendance - if that is fully covered by the institution then why would Pell provide anything? At that point the cost of attendance figure Pell would use would be $0 since the student received all of the aid - there is no unmet need.

(06-29-2015 09:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 09:31 AM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  Regarding Pell,I'm thinking that kids that fully qualify for the 5500 will get the additional over the COA.Only a few schools have a COA over the Pell Grant max ie. Auburn,Tennessee

I think Pell only covers for cost of attendance - if that is fully covered by the institution then why would Pell provide anything? At that point the cost of attendance figure Pell would use would be $0 since the student received all of the aid - there is no unmet need.

I was working with the assumption that Pell was the same 5500 for every institution irregardless of their published COA.I was wrong if not so.

(06-29-2015 11:35 AM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 09:53 AM)rokamortis Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 09:31 AM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  Regarding Pell,I'm thinking that kids that fully qualify for the 5500 will get the additional over the COA.Only a few schools have a COA over the Pell Grant max ie. Auburn,Tennessee

I think Pell only covers for cost of attendance - if that is fully covered by the institution then why would Pell provide anything? At that point the cost of attendance figure Pell would use would be $0 since the student received all of the aid - there is no unmet need.

I was working with the assumption that Pell was the same 5500 for every institution irregardless of their published COA.I was wrong if not so.

Pell is a max amount but based on the COA and other factors. I don't see how a student will get more than the full cost of attendance regardless of who pays. Even if a school tries to have Pell pay first, not sure if they can but may be able, then they still shouldn't be able to provide more than the total cost of attendance.

Guys, the whole purpose of the P5 pushing FCOA was to simplify bookkeeping. The money is insignificant [to a school with $20,000,000 of mail box money from the conference] and they no longer have to have a financial aid specialist in the AD's office to help athletes get Pell Grants. Much easier to just cut a check.

This is shaping up to be a royal mess.

(06-29-2015 07:16 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  http://csnbbs.com/thread-740927.html
thats how bama has raised its fcoa by altering the numbers.
if they can get away with it who else will and when will it stop.

Big guys will do what the big guys will do. They are just hurting themselves because if the calculation is changed, then it will effect more than sports it will effect federal grants for regular students as well.

In the end, we are not going to lure an athlete away from Alabama because we give them $200 more a month.

The issue will be does your school pay COA yes or no? Followed by:What percentage do you pay? It's going to matter more if you pay 100% or if you pay less.

(06-29-2015 04:03 PM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 07:16 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  http://csnbbs.com/thread-740927.html
thats how bama has raised its fcoa by altering the numbers.
if they can get away with it who else will and when will it stop.

Big guys will do what the big guys will do. They are just hurting themselves because if the calculation is changed, then it will effect more than sports it will effect federal grants for regular students as well.

In the end, we are not going to lure an athlete away from Alabama because we give them $200 more a month.

The issue will be does your school pay COA yes or no? Followed by:What percentage do you pay? It's going to matter more if you pay 100% or if you pay less.

I'll also add that this could be bad news for any SBC school that does not pay COA. It's more than likely to lead to issues than worrying about what Alabama does.

(06-29-2015 12:08 PM)Vobserver Wrote:  Guys, the whole purpose of the P5 pushing FCOA was to simplify bookkeeping. The money is insignificant [to a school with $20,000,000 of mail box money from the conference] and they no longer have to have a financial aid specialist in the AD's office to help athletes get Pell Grants. Much easier to just cut a check.

Well, that makes sense and all - but I'm thinking that IF they can save $ by having the majority of COA covered by the Pell Grant for a large % of their student athletes...... THAT CA$H is going to far out weigh the salary of some Financial Aid workers - that the University already has to have on staff anyway.

Looks like they are doing it now for the players who qualify, I don't see that changing. But they are going to have to deduct it from the total payout or this thing is going to get crazy.

(06-29-2015 04:08 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 12:08 PM)Vobserver Wrote:  Guys, the whole purpose of the P5 pushing FCOA was to simplify bookkeeping. The money is insignificant [to a school with $20,000,000 of mail box money from the conference] and they no longer have to have a financial aid specialist in the AD's office to help athletes get Pell Grants. Much easier to just cut a check.

Well, that makes sense and all - but I'm thinking that IF they can save $ by having the majority of COA covered by the Pell Grant for a large % of their student athletes...... THAT CA$H is going to far out weigh the salary of some Financial Aid workers - that the University already has to have on staff anyway.

But I have no idea if it is used now or not and this may all be non-sense?

I think it's edging on non-sense. Pell's are commonly issued to students and athletes to cover living expenses. This simplifies the issue and now it's construed as "paying players". I can honesty say that I've never heard of a student making a college choice over how much Pell grant money they get versus another school. But that's just my experience. The issue is now it's available to everyone regardless of need. So the question from a student athlete to a school will be do you offer COA or not?

(06-29-2015 04:19 PM)GoAppsGo92 Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 04:08 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(06-29-2015 12:08 PM)Vobserver Wrote:  Guys, the whole purpose of the P5 pushing FCOA was to simplify bookkeeping. The money is insignificant [to a school with $20,000,000 of mail box money from the conference] and they no longer have to have a financial aid specialist in the AD's office to help athletes get Pell Grants. Much easier to just cut a check.

Well, that makes sense and all - but I'm thinking that IF they can save $ by having the majority of COA covered by the Pell Grant for a large % of their student athletes...... THAT CA$H is going to far out weigh the salary of some Financial Aid workers - that the University already has to have on staff anyway.

But I have no idea if it is used now or not and this may all be non-sense?

I think it's edging on non-sense. Pell's are commonly issued to students and athletes to cover living expenses. This simplifies the issue and now it's construed as "paying players". I can honesty say that I've never heard of a student making a college choice over how much Pell grant money they get versus another school. But that's just my experience. The issue is now it's available to everyone regardless of need. So the question from a student athlete to a school will be do you offer COA or not?

Little pride in Pell Grant money. However kids will draw "worth" from a higher COA payment most likely...just the way minds work.Getting a check every month from your athletic department for a $100 more than your buddy at a competing school will get some social media play.For every student athlete that humbly moves through their tenure at an institution their are 4 others on social media playing up their greatness....that's going to increase and schools/coaches will play it like a fiddle