(06-18-2015 03:35 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I've posted it before, the B1G would pay anything to get their hands on WF.

First I know Wake isn't going anywhere but why would the B1G "pay anything" to get Wake? It seems like there are a dozen options in the ACC alone before Wake.

(06-18-2015 04:58 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 03:35 PM)Dasville Wrote:  I've posted it before, the B1G would pay anything to get their hands on WF.

First I know Wake isn't going anywhere but why would the B1G "pay anything" to get Wake? It seems like there are a dozen options in the ACC alone before Wake.

In our very brief stay in the ACC, I have learned that WF is THE most influential member in the Conference. If WF were to go to the B1G, that would literally open the door for whatever "other" team they wanted. Unlike Indiana/Purdue/Northwestern or Vandy/UK or many teams in the PAC and Big 12, WF has an equal and equally powerful voice in the ACC.

If WF were to accept an offer from any other P5, that would be the end of the ACC. The ACC could almost withstand ANY other loss.

I think there's a chance that Wake Forest will no longer be in the ACC within the next decade. The NLRB's decision could play a major role in private universities' ability to field football teams, and I could see not only Wake Forest, but Tulane, Northwestern, Rice, etc. dropping their football programs entirely.

I think it's a slim chance, but I do think if I were an athletic director, I would pencil it into a risks list as I put together my strategic plan.

I think some folks give Wake Forest far more respect for their "influence" in the ACC than they deserve. That being said, I don't see them ever being forced out. That's not because I think the other presidents would take the high road or anything. This wouldn't be about loyalty or "doing the right thing".

The fact is, there are enough other schools in the league who would be afraid that if Wake could be booted, so could they. And it doesn't take many such votes to prevent an ouster.

But I must confess, the thought has occurred to me that the league might some day consider offering Wake some financial incentive to drop football, or to join another conference for football only while remaining in the ACC for all other sports. They could even prevail on the remaining NC schools to schedule them OOC to sweeten the deal. The problem with that scenario is that who would want Wake just for its football? Even though they would be a nice add for either the Sunbelt or CUSA from a geographic standpoint, and would fit competitively, they wouldn't make either league more money.

So, I believe that Wake keeps its football and stays right where it is.

I've seen articles in the past saying Wake loses tons of money on football. So in the event that the ACC nudges them out of the nest, I could easily see Wake dropping football and focusing on basketball.

ECU's jealousy of a team that beats them 75% of the time on the football field is pretty sad.

The MAC would take them in a heart beat if it somehow happened. It isn't but they would.

(06-18-2015 06:03 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  ECU's jealousy of a team that beats them 75% of the time on the football field is pretty sad.

I think ECU would play Wake Forest any day of the week. Home and home deal. Gives you guys a non-conference game sell out also.

(06-18-2015 02:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Heh - I had mentioned to some others that Wake Forest seems to always be the favorite G5 fan target for elimination. The problem is that the ACC won't kick Wake out any more than they would kick UNC and Duke out. They are the equivalent of Mark Zuckerberg's secretary - she was in the right place at the right time in the very beginning of the formation of Facebook and is now a multimillionaire for life. Likewise, Wake Forest was a founder of the ACC and that gets them protection as long as the conference exists. Being shareholder #1 gets you a ton of lifetime benefits even if you're not providing any value to the company anymore.

If it was a business? Stockholders can forced CEO/founder out of a company. They forced the founder and CEO of the company he created for men's clothing out a couple of years ago.

Wake is not going anywhere, so it is a moot point.

The ACC's not breaking up, so it's a moot point.

It wasn't too long ago that Wake Forest played in the Orange Bowl. They have proven they can be successful at a high level. They also have the potential to return being a great basketball program. I like Wake and think they bring a number of things to the table

Wake would be a welcome addition to any east coast based league they wanted or needed to go to. CUSA and AAC would jump all over the chance to add them.

Actually, the least likely scenario is the SEC. They league doesn't need another small private school whipping boy in the SEC East. Vandy occupies that role. Wake would be redundant. I'm fairly certain if there was any ACC shakeup, the SEC would seriously consider adding NCSU (and definitely ahead of ECU). They're the best fit (and UNC CHeat is a pariah for now). The SEC would love to have program in the heart of ACC country. For that reason, ECU, and even, if they ever get viable, Charlotte would both be at least possibilities further down the road (if NCSU crazily passed on the opportunity). Don't underestimate the geographical conference rivalry there - because that's what it would be about, since those schools don't bring the big any big backers like T. Boone Pickens.

I still think there's a meaningful chance that NCSU ends up in the SEC in the next 10-15 years, after some of the small privates drop FBS football.

(06-19-2015 05:48 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 02:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Heh - I had mentioned to some others that Wake Forest seems to always be the favorite G5 fan target for elimination. The problem is that the ACC won't kick Wake out any more than they would kick UNC and Duke out. They are the equivalent of Mark Zuckerberg's secretary - she was in the right place at the right time in the very beginning of the formation of Facebook and is now a multimillionaire for life. Likewise, Wake Forest was a founder of the ACC and that gets them protection as long as the conference exists. Being shareholder #1 gets you a ton of lifetime benefits even if you're not providing any value to the company anymore.

If it was a business? Stockholders can forced CEO/founder out of a company. They forced the founder and CEO of the company he created for men's clothing out a couple of years ago.

Frank's analogy is excellent.

However, the Men's Warehouse guy is a different situation. He sold his stock so he no longer had any ownership of the company. He traded his influence for a nice big pile of cash. Wake Forest, on the other hand, still owns 1/15th of the ACC.

(06-19-2015 07:34 AM)rednblackattack Wrote:  It wasn't too long ago that Wake Forest played in the Orange Bowl. They have proven they can be successful at a high level. They also have the potential to return being a great basketball program. I like Wake and think they bring a number of things to the table

I could say the same of Cincinnati, UConn and Northern Illinois having all played in access bowls by another name in the past... or UCF which actually won one. Wake really doesn't add much to the ACC other than Chris Paul and Tim Duncan's legacies.

That being said, the ACC won't drop them. It's a good thought question.. will a P5 ever get dropped... I'm thinking no - that it never happens. (temple... sort of...I know)...

Let's look at this for argument's sake... Let's say the ACC was to drop Wake Forest for Cincinnati (UConn football would probably be better than Wake if it was in a P5 within a few years.. probably... wrong coach, doesn't happen... UCF doesn't have the tradition - same with Northern Illinois ... ECU doesn't add much vs. Wake... swapping in the same quasi-region ... so I'm throwing Cincinnati out there as the sample).

Is the lawsuit by Wake and bad faith of losing them worth the addition of a superior football program in a strategic area? Keep in mind the NCAA is an old boys' network like none other. I just don't see it happening... too much risk.

(06-19-2015 05:48 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 02:48 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Heh - I had mentioned to some others that Wake Forest seems to always be the favorite G5 fan target for elimination. The problem is that the ACC won't kick Wake out any more than they would kick UNC and Duke out. They are the equivalent of Mark Zuckerberg's secretary - she was in the right place at the right time in the very beginning of the formation of Facebook and is now a multimillionaire for life. Likewise, Wake Forest was a founder of the ACC and that gets them protection as long as the conference exists. Being shareholder #1 gets you a ton of lifetime benefits even if you're not providing any value to the company anymore.

If it was a business? Stockholders can forced CEO/founder out of a company. They forced the founder and CEO of the company he created for men's clothing out a couple of years ago.

The chances that the ACC would ever try to force Wake out: Zero percent.

(06-18-2015 02:35 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Wake isn't going anywhere unless they want to. They know where all the bodies are buried.

This is the correct answer.

(06-19-2015 10:21 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(06-18-2015 02:35 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Wake isn't going anywhere unless they want to. They know where all the bodies are buried.

This is the correct answer.

They are also making money at football. Their share of the football portion of the ACC tv deal ($15 million +/-), plus their share of CFP and Orange Bowl money ($5 million+), exceeds the budget for the football program (just under $19 million).

It's not like WF is not trying to win. They've made a couple of pretty decent hires to head the basketball and football programs. Call it luck or whatever, but WF aligned with the right conference at the right time. And that's what irks so many posters, viz., that they their school didn't have that same luck or opportunity.

(06-18-2015 05:39 PM)ken d Wrote:  But I must confess, the thought has occurred to me that the league might some day consider offering Wake some financial incentive to drop football, or to join another conference for football only while remaining in the ACC for all other sports.

If you asked a consultant what the "market value" would be to pay a school to move from a P5 league to a G5 league, to compensate for the loss in long-term value to the school, the answer would be at least hundreds of millions of dollars, I think.

Just making a back-of-the-envelope calculation: If the difference in Wake's annual athletic department revenue between ACC membership and P5 membership is about $30 million/year each year for the next 20 years, then the amount you'd have to pay them today just to compensate for the next 20 years of decreased revenue would be the present value of that future money, somewhere between $350 million and $500 million.