(05-31-2015 06:33 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:27 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 05:55 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 05:14 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 02:21 PM)stever20 Wrote:  This year every conference but the ACC is guaranteed at least 90 million. The following year- the 4 P5 conference guaranteed at least 90 million, while the ACC is guaranteed only 77.5 million.

S20, I am not arguing that the ACC isn't the lowest of the P5 schools when the money is distributed on average. I do think your math may be a little off. I think it is more around low 80 million the ACC because I think each P5 gets 55 Million. I be the last to say the ACC should claim poverty, but thaks for the concern.

Hey I get why Big East fans probably hate the ACC. No doubt the ACC and Swofford killed the BE in it's quest to survive. Basically, the ACC tripped the Big East while running from the zombies to save itself.

I think this past year-
SEC 87.5 million (50 million for the CFP share, 27.5 for Orange Share, 6 million for Alabama in CFP semifinal, 4 million for Ole Miss).
ACC 83.5 million (50 million for CFP share, 27.5 for Orange Share, 6 million for FSU in CFP semifinal).
P12 60 million (50 million for CFP share, 6 million for Oregon in CFP semifinal, 4 million for Arizona)
B10 60 million (50 million for CFP share, 6 million for Ohio St in CFP semifinal, 4 million for Mich St)
B12 58 million 50 million for CFP share, 4 million each for Baylor, TCU).

This upcoming year guarantees-
SEC, P12, B10, B12 90 million (50 million for CFP share, 40 million for Rose/Sugar share)
ACC 50 million(50 million for CFP share)

Got 6 million each for the 4 CFP SF teams, and the 3 access bowl slots left get 4 million each.

Yes Spot on....remember about the OB.... in non Semifinal years SEC can only be selected 3 times (or only two more times) BIG gets 3 and ND 2(Or something like that....

So there will be years when ND, gets 27.5 which will be greater then a G5 conf.... and years where the big will get 87.5M and SEC 60M....

Also what will the revenue split look like when ND gets the 27.5M from the OB? Will BIG/PAC/SEC be at 60M and the ACC 77.5? I think so...

Actually that's not totally right about the Orange Bowl... The SEC/Big Ten have to be selected 3 times each- but can go up to 5 times.

Also- the base spot is 50 million.. If the semifinals are exactly like last year with the teams that everyone got.....

SEC would get- 50 million base, 40 million Sugar, 6 million for team in the CFP sf, and then 4 million for 3rd team in. total 100 million
B10 would get 50 million base, 40 million Rose, 6 million for team in CFP sf. Total 96 million.
P12 would get 50 million base, 40 million Rose, 6 million for team in CFP sf. Total 96 million.
B12 would get 50 million base, 40 million Sugar, 4 million for 2nd team in. total 94 million
ACC would get 50 million base, 6 million for CFP SF, 4 million for 2nd team in. total 60 million.

Above numbers for years that OB is semi-final and Suger/Rose are contract bowls..

90M for SEC/PAC/BIG/BIG12
50M for ACC

the rest depends on rankings and who makes the CFP or Access Bowl

However when the ROSE/SUGER are Semis And BIG gets slotted to OB
BIG 87.5
ACC 77.5
SEC/BIG12/PAC 60M

Again...the rest depends on rankings and who makes the CFP or Access Bowl

However when the ROSE/SUGER are Semis And ND gets slotted to OB
ACC 91.25M
BIG/SEC/PAC/BIG12 60M
ND 13.75M

Again..the rest depends on rankings and who makes the CFP or Access Bowl

The problem that the ACC has is that it's such a narrow wedge for Notre Dame with the Orange Bowl. Literally, some years if they are 11-1, they are CFP bound, but at 9-3 they would definitely be behind them. So it's 10-2 or bust for the Orange getting ND.

(05-31-2015 06:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If ND is selected to the Orange then the ACC would get a full 40 million and ND would only get 15 million.

DO you have a link?? Would love to read it..I can't find the actual numbers..just articles saying ND will get less then SEC/BIG

(05-31-2015 06:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The problem that the ACC has is that it's such a narrow wedge for Notre Dame with the Orange Bowl. Literally, some years if they are 11-1, they are CFP bound, but at 9-3 they would definitely be behind them. So it's 10-2 or bust for the Orange getting ND.

Good Point

(05-31-2015 06:46 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If ND is selected to the Orange then the ACC would get a full 40 million and ND would only get 15 million.

DO you have a link?? Would love to read it..I can't find the actual numbers..just articles saying ND will get less then SEC/BIG

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...new-format

It's actually even better for the ACC than I remembered- 41.25 million for ACC and 13.75 million for ND.

(05-31-2015 06:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:46 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If ND is selected to the Orange then the ACC would get a full 40 million and ND would only get 15 million.

DO you have a link?? Would love to read it..I can't find the actual numbers..just articles saying ND will get less then SEC/BIG

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...new-format

It's actually even better for the ACC than I remembered- 41.25 million for ACC and 13.75 million for ND.

Same link talks about rematches... interesting I did not know this...

If the ACC's highest-ranked opponent from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

An 80/20 split between the P5 and G5 seems fair, we don't want half of a sports laegue getting all uppity by getting an equal portion. by only giving the G5 20% it drives home the point that they aren't in FBS to "be competitive" and "win championships", heck no, they're in FBS to pad the win totals of the P5 teams. 20% seems like a reasonable fee for being used. Besides, I don't want to live in a country where the P5 doesn't have all the chips stacked in their favor, its the way God and Ben Franklin intended. 'Murica!

(05-31-2015 06:55 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:46 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 06:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If ND is selected to the Orange then the ACC would get a full 40 million and ND would only get 15 million.

DO you have a link?? Would love to read it..I can't find the actual numbers..just articles saying ND will get less then SEC/BIG

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...new-format

It's actually even better for the ACC than I remembered- 41.25 million for ACC and 13.75 million for ND.

Same link talks about rematches... interesting I did not know this...

If the ACC's highest-ranked opponent from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten would create a regular-season rematch, the Orange Bowl has the flexibility to avoid that rematch by taking the next highest-ranked team from Notre Dame, the SEC or Big Ten. The team that was "skipped" over would be placed in an access bowl as long as it meets the minimum ranking requirement.

yeah the rematch thing has been talked about some. not sure how much it'll come out- as I think most of the time, the team coming from the SEC will be from the west, with very few head to heads with the ACC.

I am not sure, but I don't think ND has to be ranked over B1G or SEC to get the bid. I believe they have to be in the top 10 in the rankings to get the bid and the Orange may opt for ND. Remember when th B1G gets an Orange bowl, the ACC gets the BWW (formerly Capitol One Bowl) which gets the ACC another 4 or 5 million for that bowl. So basically the B1G only get 23 Million since they give up that bowl. Many forget about that part of the deal with B1G in the Orange Bowl. As I said earlier, the ACC probably has the lowest average of the P5 for the pool of Money but they are not hurting by any means.

(05-31-2015 07:43 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I am not sure, but I don't think ND has to be ranked over B1G or SEC to get the bid. I believe they have to be in the top 10 in the rankings to get the bid and the Orange may opt for ND. Remember when th B1G gets an Orange bowl, the ACC gets the BWW (formerly Capitol One Bowl) which gets the ACC another 4 or 5 million for that bowl. So basically the B1G only get 23 Million since they give up that bowl. Many forget about that part of the deal with B1G in the Orange Bowl. As I said earlier, the ACC probably has the lowest average of the P5 for the pool of Money but they are not hurting by any means.

nope. ND absolutely has to be ranked over the Big Ten and SEC to get the bid.

It's no probable about it- the ACC has the lowest average of the P5 for the pool of money... Think about it- let's go best case.... ND 2 times in.

ACC gets 600 million over 12 years in the CFP payouts. 27.5 million times 6 for the Orange Bowl payouts the years Big Ten/SEC go=165 million. 41.25 million times 2 for the Orange Bowl payouts the years ND goes- 82.5 million. That equals 847.5 million total
B12/P12 gets 600 million over 12 years in the CFP payouts. 40 million times 8 for the Sugar/Rose Payouts- 320 million. That equals 920 million total.
SEC/B10 gets 600 million over 12 years in the CFP payouts. 40 million times 8 for the Sugar/Rose Payouts- 320 million. 27.5 million times 3 for the Orange Bowl payouts- 82.5 million. Totals 1002.5 million.

Where it gets even worse for the ACC is per team...
ACC- 60.5 million per school for 12 years.
B12- 92 million per school for 12 years
P12 - 76.7 million per school for 12 years
SEC- 71.6 million per school for 12 years
B10- 71.6 million per school for 12 years

And this is before the other payouts for teams making the CFP etc, which the ACC isn't all that well positioned for.

And, it'll be interesting if the SEC gets the next 2-3 times with the Orange when the BWW Bowl gets re-negotiated in 5 years if they balk at taking the ACC at that point- knowing they could have ACC at least half the 6 times.

and worse case for ACC-
ACC gets 820 million total
SEC/B10 if they got 4-4 would be both at 1030 million
If one got 5- they would be at 1057.5 million.

If that happens-
ACC- 58.6 million per school.
if it's 4-4- 73.6 million per school for SEC/Big Ten.
if it's 5-3 the one that got 5 would be at 75.5 million.

So the ACC in 12 years could be down at least 15 million in CFP payouts compared to everyone else.

The original chart also shows why the Big 12 in my mind has no shot at getting the 10 team CCG proposal passed.

(05-31-2015 08:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 07:43 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I am not sure, but I don't think ND has to be ranked over B1G or SEC to get the bid. I believe they have to be in the top 10 in the rankings to get the bid and the Orange may opt for ND. Remember when th B1G gets an Orange bowl, the ACC gets the BWW (formerly Capitol One Bowl) which gets the ACC another 4 or 5 million for that bowl. So basically the B1G only get 23 Million since they give up that bowl. Many forget about that part of the deal with B1G in the Orange Bowl. As I said earlier, the ACC probably has the lowest average of the P5 for the pool of Money but they are not hurting by any means.

nope. ND absolutely has to be ranked over the Big Ten and SEC to get the bid.

It's no probable about it- the ACC has the lowest average of the P5 for the pool of money... Think about it- let's go best case.... ND 2 times in.

ACC gets 600 million over 12 years in the CFP payouts. 27.5 million times 6 for the Orange Bowl payouts the years Big Ten/SEC go=165 million. 41.25 million times 2 for the Orange Bowl payouts the years ND goes- 82.5 million. That equals 847.5 million total
B12/P12 gets 600 million over 12 years in the CFP payouts. 40 million times 8 for the Sugar/Rose Payouts- 320 million. That equals 920 million total.
SEC/B10 gets 600 million over 12 years in the CFP payouts. 40 million times 8 for the Sugar/Rose Payouts- 320 million. 27.5 million times 3 for the Orange Bowl payouts- 82.5 million. Totals 1002.5 million.

Where it gets even worse for the ACC is per team...
ACC- 60.5 million per school for 12 years.
B12- 92 million per school for 12 years
P12 - 76.7 million per school for 12 years
SEC- 71.6 million per school for 12 years
B10- 71.6 million per school for 12 years

And this is before the other payouts for teams making the CFP etc, which the ACC isn't all that well positioned for.

And, it'll be interesting if the SEC gets the next 2-3 times with the Orange when the BWW Bowl gets re-negotiated in 5 years if they balk at taking the ACC at that point- knowing they could have ACC at least half the 6 times.

There is no question that the SEC & BIG get the most TV dollars guaranteed for the next 12 years....

However I think you are saying that

You say ..Where it gets even worse for the ACC is per team...
ACC- 60.5 million per school after 12 years.
B12- 92 million per school after 12 years
P12 - 76.7 million per school after 12 years
SEC- 71.6 million per school after 12 years
B10- 71.6 million per school after 12 years

So I say.....it is not as bad per school per year as you are selling
ACC avg yearly School Payout CFP era- 5M
BIG12 avg yearly School Payout CFP era-7.6M
P12 avg yearly School Payout CFP era-6.3M
SEC avg yearly School Payout CFP era-5.9M
BIG avg yearly School Payout CFP era-5.9M

I do think Wake Forest does not deserve the same Money as Auburn and Bama...And Yes the 48M per year that is left on the table and up for grabs can either allow a conf like the ACC to close the gap for each school or allow a Conf like the BIG 12 to extend their lead....

But I do not think life is bad for the ACC ...

(05-31-2015 07:05 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  An 80/20 split between the P5 and G5 seems fair, we don't want half of a sports laegue getting all uppity by getting an equal portion. by only giving the G5 20% it drives home the point that they aren't in FBS to "be competitive" and "win championships", heck no, they're in FBS to pad the win totals of the P5 teams. 20% seems like a reasonable fee for being used. Besides, I don't want to live in a country where the P5 doesn't have all the chips stacked in their favor, its the way God and Ben Franklin intended. 'Murica!

Face it, none of those bowls nor even the next couple of tiers below want anything to do with the G5. If you want it totally market driven the G5 would get 0. Heck the AAC champ couldn't even hold on to liberty bowl over a low ranking B12.

The problem the ACC's got....
CFP money- they're behind.
TV money- they're behind.
basketball money- they're ahead of most- but like best case- lets say they do get 120 units over 6 years. Lowest P5 conference at say 60 units over 6 years. The difference there is 18 million total. Also if the lowest conference is the B12, the gap is only 600k.

And you say that Wake Forest doesn't deserve the same money as Auburn or Bama. That's fine. But do you think FSU deserves the same money?

(06-01-2015 07:48 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 07:05 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  An 80/20 split between the P5 and G5 seems fair, we don't want half of a sports laegue getting all uppity by getting an equal portion. by only giving the G5 20% it drives home the point that they aren't in FBS to "be competitive" and "win championships", heck no, they're in FBS to pad the win totals of the P5 teams. 20% seems like a reasonable fee for being used. Besides, I don't want to live in a country where the P5 doesn't have all the chips stacked in their favor, its the way God and Ben Franklin intended. 'Murica!

Face it, none of those bowls nor even the next couple of tiers below want anything to do with the G5. If you want it totally market driven the G5 would get 0. Heck the AAC champ couldn't even hold on to liberty bowl over a low ranking B12.

Which is why I believe the only way for a G5 conference to have a decent bowl is to create it themselves and to fund it with a high enough pay out to attract a good P5 opponent. If the G5 want good bowls, they will need to build them and pay for them. On the up side, they will also receive all the ticket sales and TV rights money, so it should actually make money for any G5 conference willing to do that heavy lifting.

You right S20, the ACC should just go out and shoot itself right now. I mean, how in the world will it ever compete and be part of the P5. I mean the little money the ACC gets from this deal is embarrassing. I don't just get why they don't start calling it the G6 since the money is on par with MWC, AAC, SB, MAC and CUSA with their TV Deals and CFP allotment. I mean, Swofford should be shot for getting the ACC into a NYD bowl by taking the B1G spot when they go to the Orange. Also, getting a better share of money if ND plays in the Orange. I mean the powerhouse history of the ACC in football, I am shocked how the ACC could be happy with this deal. The ACC is so much worse off than it's old rival the OBE/AAC. I know those teamd would laugh at the thought of trading places with the ACC order in the football world. I only wish ESPN treated the ACC as well as the treat the AAC with money and exposure. Hey, maybe we could see if FS1 wants to try and steal us away since the Big East Basketball gets so much more exposure and money than the ACC. What do you think?

I guess I will remain to be ignorant and be happy with the pittance the ACC is marking compared to other conferences overall.

The thing is- with the money the way it is- they aren't going to be competitive with the SEC or Big Ten. The ACC never considered themselves on level with the Big East/AAC, they considered themselves to be level with the Big Ten and the SEC.

If you don't think there are schools that aren't happy with the money, then you live in denial. I mean, do you think FSU will be content to be making somewhere between 7-10 million per year less than Florida? Georgia Tech with Georgia? Clemson with South Carolina? No chance.

It's remarkable how there are ACC fans on here that think all is great with the ACC, that there's no reason for concern. They think that pie in the sky look in will do them great- and that mythical ACC Network will save them.

(06-01-2015 09:37 AM)stever20 Wrote:  The thing is- with the money the way it is- they aren't going to be competitive with the SEC or Big Ten. The ACC never considered themselves on level with the Big East/AAC, they considered themselves to be level with the Big Ten and the SEC.

If you don't think there are schools that aren't happy with the money, then you live in denial. I mean, do you think FSU will be content to be making somewhere between 7-10 million per year less than Florida? Georgia Tech with Georgia? Clemson with South Carolina? No chance.

It's remarkable how there are ACC fans on here that think all is great with the ACC, that there's no reason for concern. They think that pie in the sky look in will do them great- and that mythical ACC Network will save them.

Considering a few years ago on this board folks like yourself said the ACC is dead, this shows they are not.... The current deal with CFP gives the ACC schools 5M a year while the SEC/BIG gets 5.9M....

There is 48M left to get via CFP/At Large Bowls so I agree the ACC needs to get some of that money...

You are also correct that the SEC/BIG have networks and the ACC does not yet... But the BIG/PAC/LHN did not leave the SEC in the dust because they all had a network before the SEC....

SO far I have the ACC behind the SEC/BIG .9M in CFP money before the 48M given for CFP and At LargeBowls... and it looks like each SEC school is getting 10M for a Network....

SO the SEC schools are getting 10.9M more in CFP and Network money (Not sure what the BIG gets in network money per school)....I think the ACC is on track to close the gap via an ACC network and by getting some of the CFP 48M...

Is the SEC/BIG clearly fighting for First...Yes.... But to say the ACC is dead and can't close the gap is a bit crazy and with the ACC being in the hunt the #1 in BBball Dollars...It is clear to me that the ACC is here to stay...

(06-01-2015 09:05 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 07:48 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(05-31-2015 07:05 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  An 80/20 split between the P5 and G5 seems fair, we don't want half of a sports laegue getting all uppity by getting an equal portion. by only giving the G5 20% it drives home the point that they aren't in FBS to "be competitive" and "win championships", heck no, they're in FBS to pad the win totals of the P5 teams. 20% seems like a reasonable fee for being used. Besides, I don't want to live in a country where the P5 doesn't have all the chips stacked in their favor, its the way God and Ben Franklin intended. 'Murica!

Face it, none of those bowls nor even the next couple of tiers below want anything to do with the G5. If you want it totally market driven the G5 would get 0. Heck the AAC champ couldn't even hold on to liberty bowl over a low ranking B12.

Which is why I believe the only way for a G5 conference to have a decent bowl is to create it themselves and to fund it with a high enough pay out to attract a good P5 opponent. If the G5 want good bowls, they will need to build them and pay for them. On the up side, they will also receive all the ticket sales and TV rights money, so it should actually make money for any G5 conference willing to do that heavy lifting.

I think we are starting to see that with the G5 creating bowls. However until a network besides ESPN supports a G5#1 vs G5#1 you will not see that happen.... The dollars are not there...

The basketball dollars are pretty close though. If ACC was at 120 units and all 4 other P5 were at 60 units... and say units worth 300k....
ACC- 36 million- 2.4 per
B10/SEC- 18 million- 1.29 per
P12- 18 million 1.5 per
B12- 18 million 1.8 per

That's an extreme best case for the ACC- it'll never happen. ACC will be lucky to get 2 million per(or about 100 units). Big 12 to match that would just need to have 67 units.

And I would say the Big Ten had been leaving the SEC in the dust with their network- they were making a good 4-5 million more per year. That's changing. Also, that didn't hurt the SEC as much as it's hurting the ACC because those SEC schools aren't in direct competition with the Big Ten, while SEC schools are in direct competition with the ACC...

I think it's getting pretty close to saying that the ACC has to get a network to be anywhere near viable. It's their only chance to really slice into the SEC money advantage.