I wonder if GoodOwl is a pseudonym? Man these guys crawl out of the woodwork don't they. Like Chatty Cathy dolls. Just pull a string.

(04-22-2015 03:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  One way to reduce costs is to ban multiple school districts within counties.

Good point. I wonder how that came about in the first place?

(04-22-2015 03:18 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 03:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  One way to reduce costs is to ban multiple school districts within counties.

Good point. I wonder how that came about in the first place?

Many communities decided to create their own school districts to avoid having to pay for poor or non-white communities. Sometimes it was more an issue of local control.

(04-22-2015 03:29 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 03:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  One way to reduce costs is to ban multiple school districts within counties.

Many communities decided to create their own school districts to avoid having to pay for poor or non-white communities. Sometimes it was more an issue of local control.

Government schools don't work. There's no fixing a broken idea. Make all schools private, free teachers to control and choose their destinies, classrooms and rules and let the money follow the kids freely and equally.

Accept that some people value education and will sacrifice the time and energy to prioritize it and some will not. Let the market bear the consequences of individual decisions in education. Eliminate all government student loans and grants and watch college and post-high-school costs plummet in one or two years back to normal levels.

In almost every case in modern society, any government involvement is the problem.

(04-22-2015 12:57 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 12:52 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  We, locally, get no funding for HS athletics from the County. They pay a small additional stipend for H Coaches, something like 2500 a "semester" or season and some fraction off that for 3 additional assistants (ftball only), 700 bucks for the JV coach and nothing more for assistants. Like wise with other sports, 2500 HC, 700 JV, that's it.
When I was helping with one of the JV squads the HC and I did some quick math with practice times, travel, film etc and we figured he got about $2.25-2.50 an hour. Me? I got a hat.
All equipment comes from the gate and fundraising, helmets for lacrosse and the like are the responsibility of the players as is everything else except the uniforms. And maybe some socks. I think they get socks.

You get more help than I do. But I'm betting you still run an effective program. I know it's hard, but it sorta kinda should be hard.

With institutional funding measured in the hundreds (not thousands) of dollars per year, I took a Division II program to the Sweet-16 round of the Division I national championship. Then I was told that having to fund our trip to nationals put a strain on the Rec Sports budget. I was also told that a coach of another program was fired for setting and trying to achieve competitive goals that were too high. I was told that if my goal was to compete for national honors, I was in the wrong place--in precisely those words. I chose to move to a new program which is now starting from scratch. We'll see how that goes.

you are just an old rugby coach.

(04-22-2015 12:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ever.

Let's cut your household Income by 20% next year and when bills start coming up short we will blame your budgeting skills.

Households do that all the time. Schools can also. Hamilton County (Cincy)
had to slash their budget by ?30% a few years ago. They did and there is no issue with lack of services. Just shows how much bloat and fat there was.

(04-22-2015 12:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 12:33 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ever.

Let's cut your household Income by 20% next year and when bills start coming up short we will blame your budgeting skills.

Fire the administrators who do nothing useful, and you'd have enough money left over to give teachers a raise--which they deserve.

How many assistant principals were there when you went to high school? How many now? How many of them add anything useful?

Require athletics and other extracurricular activities to provide more of their own funding. I'm a coach, we get very little institutional funding (most from an endowment set up by former players), and we can manage. You don't need 10 assistant coaches for a HS football team. You just don't.

I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

"Academic support"

That's how you know you are wasting money.

I'm calling bull**** in the Hamilton County bs above. I need links and facts and I gaurantee you some pain was involved and kids are getting less than what they received before.

Bloomberg with a piece about this today.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articl...ze-revenue

(04-22-2015 04:18 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 03:29 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 03:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  One way to reduce costs is to ban multiple school districts within counties.

Many communities decided to create their own school districts to avoid having to pay for poor or non-white communities. Sometimes it was more an issue of local control.

Government schools don't work. There's no fixing a broken idea. Make all schools private, free teachers to control and choose their destinies, classrooms and rules and let the money follow the kids freely and equally.

Accept that some people value education and will sacrifice the time and energy to prioritize it and some will not. Let the market bear the consequences of individual decisions in education. Eliminate all government student loans and grants and watch college and post-high-school costs plummet in one or two years back to normal levels.

In almost every case in modern society, any government involvement is the problem.

(04-22-2015 05:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

Many seem to think its a money issue, but US academic performance has seen much of an increase since we started dumping cash into the system. Ultimately, no amount of cash can overcome parent and/or student apathy towards education.

No one wants so say it but I think it's time to acknowledge that for some parents, school is simply a glorified daycare service. How else could you explain kids graduating (read certificate of attendance) from high school and not able to read? Step one is to gets the kids and parents who value education out of schools where they are glorified juvenile detention centers. Of the kids that remain behind, it's time to figure out what exactly motivates the them and leverage that first and sneak education in on the sly.

(05-05-2015 09:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

Many seem to think its a money issue, but US academic performance has seen much of an increase since we started dumping cash into the system. Ultimately, no amount of cash can overcome parent and/or student apathy towards education.

No one wants so say it but I think it's time to acknowledge that for some parents, school is simply a glorified daycare service. How else could you explain kids graduating (read certificate of attendance) from high school and not able to read? Step one is to gets the kids and parents who value education out of schools where they are glorified juvenile detention centers. Of the kids that remain behind, it's time to figure out what exactly motivates the them and leverage that first and sneak education in on the sly.

And sending those kids to religious schools or homeschooling will NOT solve or even mitigate these problems. Because the parent (usually its just one) isn't engaged in the child's education.

(05-05-2015 09:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

Many seem to think its a money issue, but US academic performance has seen much of an increase since we started dumping cash into the system. Ultimately, no amount of cash can overcome parent and/or student apathy towards education.

Ya know...I hear this said a lot. Are there actually any statistics to back it up? Where I'm from, the schools are all basically broke. They can't pass levy's and the state has not been increasing their funding.

(05-05-2015 09:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 09:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

Many seem to think its a money issue, but US academic performance has seen much of an increase since we started dumping cash into the system. Ultimately, no amount of cash can overcome parent and/or student apathy towards education.

No one wants so say it but I think it's time to acknowledge that for some parents, school is simply a glorified daycare service. How else could you explain kids graduating (read certificate of attendance) from high school and not able to read? Step one is to gets the kids and parents who value education out of schools where they are glorified juvenile detention centers. Of the kids that remain behind, it's time to figure out what exactly motivates the them and leverage that first and sneak education in on the sly.

And sending those kids to religious schools or homeschooling will NOT solve or even mitigate these problems. Because the parent (usually its just one) isn't engaged in the child's education.

Of course not. Opting for home or religious schooling is by definition a sign of a parent that cares about their kids education. You can't force people to care. I'm not expecting public schools to turn all children into Rhodes Scholars either. Reading, Writing and Math up to pre-Algebra is really all I'm looking for with enough experiences to convey to kids that they have a multitude of options for how to direct their life.

(05-06-2015 08:53 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 09:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

Many seem to think its a money issue, but US academic performance has seen much of an increase since we started dumping cash into the system. Ultimately, no amount of cash can overcome parent and/or student apathy towards education.

Ya know...I hear this said a lot. Are there actually any statistics to back it up? Where I'm from, the schools are all basically broke. They can't pass levy's and the state has not been increasing their funding.

I think Vandiver left out a word and meant to write "US academic performance has NOT seen..." And yes, there are tons of statistics to back it up. There's a graph showing increased expenditures versus actual performance that is quite shocking. It's been posted in related threads, I'll try to find it and link it. But I don't think there's much dispute on this point, even on the left.

Reading, Writing and Math up to pre-Algebra is really all I'm looking for with enough experiences to convey to kids that they have a multitude of options for how to direct their life.

+3

This guy makes alot of sense here. The biggest problem we have had is increased standards for EVERYBODY and then the standardized tests. Public schools are directing their limited resources on the middle 60%. The top 30% will pass the test anyways and we know we can't really help the bottom 10%. Anything they do is gravy. We spend all of our time and energy on the average. This has to change.

I'm going to pull a Hambone here. What do I know. I've only been teaching for 22 years.

I'm telling you guys. The standardized testing movement is a boondoggle. It's not good for the students. It's not good for the classroom. The only people it is good for are the testing lobbyists. Ohio spent over 585 million on these tests last year. Obama even ran on getting rid of them and he doubled down on their stupidity with the Common Core. I'm afraid there is too much money in them though now. We have to change one of two things. Either we get rid of the mentality that every kid is college prep or we get rid of standardized tests. It's hurting us. I'm telling you it is. In one way or another it's hurting public school kids.

(05-06-2015 08:53 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 09:12 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-22-2015 05:45 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't disagree about the administrators, though IME in other industries the growth of administrators is a response to the increased liability expectations from certain areas, as is the case in hospitals. I'm all for limiting them, personally, but that might be a little more difficult than implied in your post.

As for your last part, man if only we could get parents excited for academics as they are for sportsball! I'd imagine a lot of high schools that have multiple assistant coaches get the money to pay for that from parent donations that probably wouldn't exist for, say, the computer programming department. I agree the perfect solution would be an overall societal change in how we view our priorities in this manner, but that's sort of a pipe dream.

Many seem to think its a money issue, but US academic performance has seen much of an increase since we started dumping cash into the system. Ultimately, no amount of cash can overcome parent and/or student apathy towards education.

Ya know...I hear this said a lot. Are there actually any statistics to back it up? Where I'm from, the schools are all basically broke. They can't pass levy's and the state has not been increasing their funding.

You're right. Let me preface the below links by offering a correction; money towards education has increased in total in the past 20 years, but it's distribution is unevenly applied.

Facts About K-12 Funding
Is School Funding Fair?

Some areas are going to come up short based upon America's current school funding structure. If I remember correctly, a school district that has an average household income of 30K, without a major economic hub was the dividing line. I'll try to see if I can find that study as well.

(05-06-2015 09:09 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'm going to pull a Hambone here. What do I know. I've only been teaching for 22 years.

I'm telling you guys. The standardized testing movement is a boondoggle. It's not good for the students. It's not good for the classroom. The only people it is good for are the testing lobbyists. Ohio spent over 585 million on these tests last year. Obama even ran on getting rid of them and he doubled down on their stupidity with the Common Core. I'm afraid there is too much money in them though now. We have to change one of two things. Either we get rid of the mentality that every kid is college prep or we get rid of standardized tests. It's hurting us. I'm telling you it is. In one way or another it's hurting public school kids.

bingo...to a certain extent. I do think there should be some sort of testing to track a child's development, but I don't think it should be as extensive as it is now.