I read the whole thing Merrick, well said. This season is over and done with anyhow (all things eventually come to an end even bad ones) so for me its in the past and i'm done with it till next year. He's gonna be here and thats that. I'm looking forward to a promising and fun filled football season here pretty soon! Go Tigers!

One thing is for sure - Josh, and Tiger fans, could use a little good news right now.

It's been bad for a few weeks now - time to get a commitment/signing/transfer or something like that.

(03-30-2015 12:34 PM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 12:27 PM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 12:20 PM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:56 AM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:46 AM)RheaJ Wrote:  Well if RC would just give us a PG....

And if Gary Parrish and message boards would stop scaring recruits...

And if the powers at be continue to take ZERO responsibility....

So you disagree with everything Merrick wrote.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that a moderator is going to extremes to tell people how to think. Just turn a blind eye because the mod's are sick of hearing/reading the negative evaluations. Don't gripe about his salary because we don't pay it? Ridiculous. Josh took over a program that was under NCAA investigation. So what? That wasn't yesterday. Cal's players beat women, smoked, drank, cussed, etc. How come we lose so many players under Pastner? Are they horrible people too? Which great assistants have been under employment recently? Damon? Who else????

And all the points about what the coach needs to do now are made every season. When is it enough? Never obviously and according to Merrick we should just give in and say sink the ship, we'll still support you.

Do I disagree with everything? Of course not, don't be shortsighted. Do I think both sides to the argument have a valid point? Sure.

It's a messageboard. If coaches or parents invest in these opinions than that should tell you all you'd need to know about said people.

So let me understand this: you blast the OP and make no mention of agreeing with anything he said, but I am supposed to somehow read your mind and it is short-sighted to not assume there are parts of it you agree with? How so? Isn't it imprecise to criticize parts of a post but not declare there are parts that you feel are valid, and which parts those are?

Take the sensitivity down a bit...blast the OP? It's very shortsighted to assume in absolutes the way you are. You don't need to read anyone's mind if you're just going to base opinions on absolutes.

I agree with the OP that people (Billy) jump to attack other posters instead of offering any kind of debate or retort. See post above...

You mean when you said I was being 'short-sighted' before I said anything to you?

(03-30-2015 11:37 AM)tigers1125 Wrote:  Great post- I agree with most of it particularly about "beating the dead horse"; I do have a minor quibble:

"He needs to decide an identity for this team, and stick to it. Run-N-Gun, Press, Fast-Pace, Grit-N-Grind, whatever. Just pick one and STICK to it."


All good coaches adjust their game plan and make in game adjustments to offset opponents strengths and tendencies. KY has won by scoring in 50's and 100's.

One thing I noticed watching S16 was the Run-N-Gun teams like we used to have were gone from tourney (there is a difference between just running and offensive efficiency) So you prepare your team on their strengths and adjust game plan when needed.

Oh, I totally agree that in-game adjustments, as well as strategic adjustments based off the talent on the current roster should be made. Absolutely.

But the "we're going to be a press team this year" and then hardly press as all confusing to the fanbase.

A great example: you may be a fast-paced team that build a 12-point lead, then choose to slow it down with 3 minutes left to milk the clock. That's an in-game adjustment that is not only admirable, but probably should be expected.

I think we agree, I just may not have been as clear.....

(03-30-2015 12:20 PM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:56 AM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:46 AM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:44 AM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:41 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  That seems to be a chicken and egg type argument. Do you recruit the best players and find an identity or do you find an identity and then recruit players who bring those specific skills. Intelligent minds can disagree on this, but apparently "having a point guard" is critical under either theory.

No PG = No NCAA Tourney. Pure and simple,

Well if RC would just give us a PG....

And if Gary Parrish and message boards would stop scaring recruits...

And if the powers at be continue to take ZERO responsibility....

So you disagree with everything Merrick wrote.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that a moderator is going to extremes to tell people how to think. Just turn a blind eye because the mod's are sick of hearing/reading the negative evaluations. Don't gripe about his salary because we don't pay it? Ridiculous. Josh took over a program that was under NCAA investigation. So what? That wasn't yesterday. Cal's players beat women, smoked, drank, cussed, etc. How come we lose so many players under Pastner? Are they horrible people too? Which great assistants have been under employment recently? Damon? Who else????

And all the points about what the coach needs to do now are made every season. When is it enough? Never obviously and according to Merrick we should just give in and say sink the ship, we'll still support you.

Do I disagree with everything? Of course not, don't be shortsighted. Do I think both sides to the argument have a valid point? Sure.

It's a messageboard. If coaches or parents invest in these opinions than that should tell you all you'd need to know about said people.

Who said Merrick is telling people how to think? His OP (in my estimation, Merrick can eloquently speak for himself) is simply a call for people to be a little more even tempered in posting and not letting every thread devolve into a Pastner pro/con session.

I can't speak for the other moderators, but the rule of thumb in my book has never been what you say or think, but how respectfully you treat the people involved (posters, coach, players). I don't tire of any intelligent discussion of Pastner be it pro or con, and we have a good deal of intelligent, respectful, and well thought out commentary on both sides. That stuff drives the content of this site. That stuff is a pleasure to read... on either side... as it is interesting.

There are people here who want to keep Pastner and those who don't. Many fall in between (I am leaning against personally, but can sign up on the 'one more run' theory out of fairness for JP's accomplishments). It's not a binary state.

And that's cool. The OP (in my estimation, I won't dare speak for Merrick) seems to wish everyone would simply turn the temperature down and try to branch the conversation out beyond an extremely tired and somewhat false black/white narrative between the pro/con JP divisions.

The only real rule if you boil it down is be respectful and be interesting. You do those things, you got no issues, whatever you think of JP.

Dig?

(03-30-2015 11:16 AM)Tigerbluesky Wrote:  Good post. I just feel we have a difference of opinion. I totally agree with GP in that this is not a salvageable situation. Season ticket holder since the 80s and I know many others like myself who would prefer a change. So lets say we reach the S16 next year. Should we give him another 6 yrs to get back? At some point you've seen enough to know how the story will end.

You know? You may be right...perhaps it IS unsalvageable. I do believe we as fans can be fickle, though...he gets us to the S16 and makes some of the moves I referenced, he can sell that as a "Redirect" back on the path we all expect to travel.

So, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

But if he DOESN'T make those changes, then yeah.....it's a lonely road to nowhere.

(03-30-2015 11:33 AM)BigTigerMike Wrote:  So I get that many of you ' he has to go' crowd while offering your opinion will now:

1. Quit hijacking non pastner threads to go on a rant
2. Quit repeating the same thing over and over again as thought the board doesn't already know your position

(03-30-2015 11:41 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:37 AM)tigers1125 Wrote:  Great post- I agree with most of it particularly about "beating the dead horse"; I do have a minor quibble:

"He needs to decide an identity for this team, and stick to it. Run-N-Gun, Press, Fast-Pace, Grit-N-Grind, whatever. Just pick one and STICK to it."


All good coaches adjust their game plan and make in game adjustments to offset opponents strengths and tendencies. KY has won by scoring in 50's and 100's.

One thing I noticed watching S16 was the Run-N-Gun teams like we used to have were gone from tourney (there is a difference between just running and offensive efficiency) So you prepare your team on their strengths and adjust game plan when needed.

That seems to be a chicken and egg type argument. Do you recruit the best players and find an identity or do you find an identity and then recruit players who bring those specific skills. Intelligent minds can disagree on this, but apparently "having a point guard" is critical under either theory.

AGREED!!

And that advice should go both ways - the pro Pastner crowd certainly can be repetitive as well.

Trust me, everyone knows everyone's position by now.

(03-30-2015 12:42 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  One thing is for sure - Josh, and Tiger fans, could use a little good news right now.

It's been bad for a few weeks now - time to get a commitment/signing/transfer or something like that.

This is true.

One big issue about the board is that there is little else to talk about besides JP's tenure.
No NCAA.
No Big 12 announcement

We got the permit pulled for the practice facility thread (nice!), but otherwise we don't have a ton of cool stuff to talk about right now and that drives the conversation to the most logical direction, why aren't we playing right now?

Some good news would calm this place down a ton more than anything any poster could do.

(03-30-2015 12:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  And that advice should go both ways - the pro Pastner crowd certainly can be repetitive as well.

Trust me, everyone knows everyone's position by now.

Concur. Battle lines have indeed made themselves very clear.

I actually personally don't care about repetitiveness (not a whole lot to chat about now unfortunately), but I care a great deal about the level of respect and decorum.

Say what you like, just try to be respectful of your fellow posters and try to not grind the board into the DF JP job approval forum and it's all good then

No offense to anyone, but bullying has become the most overused term Ive seen on this board in a long time. Maybe Im just too old to get it, but bullying on a message board? really?

(03-30-2015 12:20 PM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:56 AM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:46 AM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:44 AM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:41 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  That seems to be a chicken and egg type argument. Do you recruit the best players and find an identity or do you find an identity and then recruit players who bring those specific skills. Intelligent minds can disagree on this, but apparently "having a point guard" is critical under either theory.

No PG = No NCAA Tourney. Pure and simple,

Well if RC would just give us a PG....

And if Gary Parrish and message boards would stop scaring recruits...

And if the powers at be continue to take ZERO responsibility....

So you disagree with everything Merrick wrote.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that a moderator is going to extremes to tell people how to think. Just turn a blind eye because the mod's are sick of hearing/reading the negative evaluations. Don't gripe about his salary because we don't pay it? Ridiculous. Josh took over a program that was under NCAA investigation. So what? That wasn't yesterday. Cal's players beat women, smoked, drank, cussed, etc. How come we lose so many players under Pastner? Are they horrible people too? Which great assistants have been under employment recently? Damon? Who else????

And all the points about what the coach needs to do now are made every season. When is it enough? Never obviously and according to Merrick we should just give in and say sink the ship, we'll still support you.

Do I disagree with everything? Of course not, don't be shortsighted. Do I think both sides to the argument have a valid point? Sure.

It's a messageboard. If coaches or parents invest in these opinions than that should tell you all you'd need to know about said people.

NEVER did I tell you how to think. I told you what I think. I mean, even though I'm a Mod, I can have opinions, no?

I also stated that the on-going rants of certain posters who just say the same thing over-and-over-and-over again without any new information just become...well, you know.

Lastly, I said that NONE OF US ARE SATISFIED. But since it's apparent a change (at least a change driven by Memphis) is not happening this year, to just continue to beat the same dang drum isn't something that most people want to read. But year, if we're going through the same thing next year, then a more drastic change will occur.

(03-30-2015 12:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  And that advice should go both ways - the pro Pastner crowd certainly can be repetitive as well.

Trust me, everyone knows everyone's position by now.

Agreed!

Well, if you can have a merged B12 thread, might as well merge every Pastner/coaching change thread as well.

IMO

(03-30-2015 12:55 PM)mrhappi06 Wrote:  No offense to anyone, but bullying has become the most overused term Ive seen on this board in a long time. Maybe Im just too old to get it, but bullying on a message board? really?

I'd say it is real (ex: constant e-stalking or doxxing especially), but can be a 'crying wolf' thing. Depends. Someone disagreeing with you respectfully is NOT bullying, but calling someone an idiot, getting more people to do it in concert or posting photos/info of people that they didn't authorize for this site? Definitely bullying.

It's a fine line for some, best way to stay on the right side is pretend there is an actual person you are chatting with. If you do that, you usually post like a good dude.

(03-30-2015 12:57 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Well, if you can have a merged B12 thread, might as well merge every Pastner/coaching change thread as well.

IMO

Not a bad idea. Not sure if we can do that going backwards though, we might have only one thread that is 1,987 pages long for the entirety of the 14-15 MBB season

(03-30-2015 12:42 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  One thing is for sure - Josh, and Tiger fans, could use a little good news right now.


It's been bad for a few weeks now - time to get a commitment/signing/transfer or something like that.

YES....YES....YES....

(Daniel Bryan chant)

(03-30-2015 12:20 PM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:56 AM)TigerBill Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:46 AM)RheaJ Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:44 AM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 11:41 AM)George CantStandYa Wrote:  That seems to be a chicken and egg type argument. Do you recruit the best players and find an identity or do you find an identity and then recruit players who bring those specific skills. Intelligent minds can disagree on this, but apparently "having a point guard" is critical under either theory.

No PG = No NCAA Tourney. Pure and simple,

Well if RC would just give us a PG....

And if Gary Parrish and message boards would stop scaring recruits...

And if the powers at be continue to take ZERO responsibility....

So you disagree with everything Merrick wrote.

I think it's pretty ridiculous that a moderator is going to extremes to tell people how to think. Just turn a blind eye because the mod's are sick of hearing/reading the negative evaluations. Don't gripe about his salary because we don't pay it? Ridiculous. Josh took over a program that was under NCAA investigation. So what? That wasn't yesterday. Cal's players beat women, smoked, drank, cussed, etc. How come we lose so many players under Pastner? Are they horrible people too? Which great assistants have been under employment recently? Damon? Who else????

And all the points about what the coach needs to do now are made every season. When is it enough? Never obviously and according to Merrick we should just give in and say sink the ship, we'll still support you.

Do I disagree with everything? Of course not, don't be shortsighted. Do I think both sides to the argument have a valid point? Sure.

It's a messageboard. If coaches or parents invest in these opinions than that should tell you all you'd need to know about said people.

All I can say after that is...Dayum!

This is what I, and others, have been saying for years and get bashed for it by Stammers and the like. I agree that Josh bashers go too far a lot of the time but it goes both ways. The Josh defenders are just as quick to denigrate as his opponents. This is just what happens when no one is happy with how things are going. People are going to be petty and pick fights. It won't change until we start having some success.