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Self-inflicted realignment wounds
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prp Offline
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Post: #1
Self-inflicted realignment wounds
Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?
02-23-2015 04:40 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
A bull-headed Connecticut Attorney General suing certain ACC member schools/administrators 03-banghead
02-23-2015 04:45 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

Skipping Louisville instead of following the pack was a critically good decision at this point. Should the Big 12 end up adding Cincinnati and/or Memphis along with BYU or UH, then it becomes a bad decision.
02-23-2015 05:25 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
WAC 16 was probably a bad idea.

But the 6 added were a bigger mistake. The 16 ONLY worked with pods, giving them no good E/W or N/S split. They needed 1 more team west of the Rockies. Nevada or Utah ST. could have worked. Boise and Idaho were still FCS in 1994 when all this was being worked out.
02-23-2015 05:31 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
I'd also say the Big 10 not taking Missouri was a very good decision. Maryland and Rutgers may have weaker football teams, but the last thing the Big 10 needed was another low national profile Midwestern team from a slow growing state. They've got a bunch of those.
02-23-2015 05:34 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
I don't think Miami had the option of choosing the SEC. IIRC, they were interested and some in the SEC were interested but couldn't get enough support within the conference to invite Miami.

Also IIRC, at the time Miami accepted the Big East invitation, the ACC wasn't interested, so their only choices at that time were to join the Big East or stay independent.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2015 05:45 PM by Wedge.)
02-23-2015 05:45 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
The Metro formed in 1975 as a league built around two factors: Basketball and television, and in many ways it became the precursor of the original Big East. The six charter members of the Metro included Cincinnati, Louisville, Tulane and Memphis, later adding Florida State, Virginia Tech, Southern Miss and South Carolina – all of which had independent football programs. Saint Louis, the other charter member, didn't have football.

Throughout the 1980s, the league – with the backing of Raycom Sports television – was one of the strongest in college basketball with great players, legendary coaching personalities and exposure in big cities in the South and mid-Atlantic.

In many ways, it was the model for what the Catholic 7, who decided to break away from the Big East's football side with the help of Fox Sports, are trying to do now.

"It was the forerunner of the TV conference," McFillen said. "We had a lot of success. But it was the football issue that was kind of our Achilles heel and continues to haunt people."

McFillen saw the future. He wanted the Metro to sponsor football and even laid out a plan in 1990 for the first "Super Conference" that would have invited schools like Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Temple, Rutgers and West Virginia, all of whom were playing football as independents at the time.

But a dividing line had been drawn within his own conference. The basketball powers such as Memphis, Cincinnati and Louisville kept the NCAA Tournament money they earned instead of splitting it up, which is how conferences have traditionally operated. As a result, there wasn't much reason for South Carolina and Florida State to consider joining for football, and eventually they got invitations to the SEC and ACC, respectively.

McFillen's superconference plan, which would have changed the course of college sports history, never got off the ground. And by 1995, it was too late. With football independence no longer viable for most programs in the college athletics, the remnants of the Metro and the Great Midwest merged to form the hybrid Conference USA.

"The football people were saying to the basketball folks, primarily, you keep your basketball money and we'll keep our football programs independent. Then the basketball schools resented the football schools for not wanting to play football (in the Metro)," McFillen said. "That was a distinction that made the Metro unique, so to speak, which only resulted in the demise of the conference."

It's a familiar theme for the likes of UConn, Cincinnati and South Florida, which have watched the Big East they were a part of crumble around them thanks to greed and the agenda-driven split between the football and basketball schools. Same for Houston and SMU, who were once part of the powerful Southwest Conference before its demise.

If there is one thing that brings most of the 11 schools together in whatever name this league takes on, it's their location (almost all big cities) and a history of nomadic conference survival. And the fact it has all come back around, much the way it did in 1995, makes the Metro Conference an intriguing brand to revive.

McFillen, 71, said to the best of his knowledge, nobody owns the name, so it would be available if a league wanted it. According to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, the trademark has been dead since May 6, 1996.

"I obviously have been removed from it for a period of time so I really don't have a strong opinion as to what they can or should be doing to try to keep things together," McFillen said. "But it does remind me a little bit of those days. It's ironic to see what has happened."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nca...e/1965393/
02-23-2015 06:02 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

I was a student at UConn when the Big East rejected Penn State. Even at 20 years old, I knew that was a stupid decision.

But the selfish Connecticut Attorney General (now governor) takes the cake for screw ups in the era of realignment.
02-23-2015 06:10 PM
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Eagle78 Offline
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Post: #9
Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 06:10 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

I was a student at UConn when the Big East rejected Penn State. Even at 20 years old, I knew that was a stupid decision.

But the selfish Connecticut Attorney General (now governor) takes the cake for screw ups in the era of realignment.

Uconn, he is a US Senator now (not Governor). Other than that, I agree with your general point.
02-23-2015 06:40 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 06:40 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  
(02-23-2015 06:10 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

I was a student at UConn when the Big East rejected Penn State. Even at 20 years old, I knew that was a stupid decision.

But the selfish Connecticut Attorney General (now governor) takes the cake for screw ups in the era of realignment.

Uconn, he is a US Senator now (not Governor). Other than that, I agree with your general point.

Oops. Thanks. I haven't lived there for 30 years and don't follow their local politics that closely.

He was just out to make a name for himself.
02-23-2015 07:03 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
I don't believe the B12 rejected Louisville. They had to get back to 10 in a hurry or face a reduction in their TV revenue. Losing A&M, Mizzou, Colorado and Nebraska would have been a major hit. WVU was willing to go nuclear to get out of the oBE. Louisville was not.

Gene Corrigan was ACC commissioner in 91 when FSU joined. He lobbied hard for Penn State at the time. The ACC presidents refused to discuss Penn State.
02-23-2015 07:13 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 05:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I don't think Miami had the option of choosing the SEC. IIRC, they were interested and some in the SEC were interested but couldn't get enough support within the conference to invite Miami.

Also IIRC, at the time Miami accepted the Big East invitation, the ACC wasn't interested, so their only choices at that time were to join the Big East or stay independent.

That is exactly how I recall it. When FSU declined the SEC, Miami was bypassed for South Carolina ... Miami never had a chance to join the SEC.

I do think most others on that list are indeed long term errors. I know that Georgia Tech is probably in a more "like minded conference" with the ACC, but can't help wonder how much they regret departing from the SEC?

Years later, it seems absolutely absurd that the Big East rejected Penn State. In watching "Requiem for the Big East" (ESPN's 30 for 30), I was struck by the uppity attitude of the administrators (Georgetown AD or who admitted that they voted "no" and why.

I think a hybrid could have surviving and thrived with Penn State who I think would have never left the Big East for the Big Ten. Still there would be the same eight members voting that day along with Pitt and probably Rutgers, West Virginia and Notre Dame (non-football) for a 13-team league that would be the best in hoops and an auto-bid in football to the major bowls/titles.
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2015 07:22 PM by MemTGRS.)
02-23-2015 07:14 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 07:13 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I don't believe the B12 rejected Louisville. They had to get back to 10 in a hurry or face a reduction in their TV revenue. Losing A&M, Mizzou, Colorado and Nebraska would have been a major hit. WVU was willing to go nuclear to get out of the oBE. Louisville was not.

Gene Corrigan was ACC commissioner in 91 when FSU joined. He lobbied hard for Penn State at the time. The ACC presidents refused to discuss Penn State.

The Big 12 debated between Louisville & WVU before making the decision.
02-23-2015 07:18 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 07:13 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Gene Corrigan was ACC commissioner in 91 when FSU joined. He lobbied hard for Penn State at the time. The ACC presidents refused to discuss Penn State.

That's not what happened.

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf...g_ten.html
02-23-2015 07:33 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

UM and FSU never had invites to the SEC. UF wouldn't allow that to happen. A bit of light flirting happened between Indian maidens and Sec, but it never was serious.

BE was not hurt having ND as a partial member, it helped with TV and bowls.
Inviting VT day one as full member would not have mattered.
02-23-2015 07:36 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
Idaho chose to de-emphasize athletics after a cheating scandal. They were not part of the scandal can't remember who was. Might not have made a difference or could have been huge. Maybe a strong run would have kept them in the same conference as PAC 12 schools.
02-23-2015 07:42 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 05:45 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I don't think Miami had the option of choosing the SEC. IIRC, they were interested and some in the SEC were interested but couldn't get enough support within the conference to invite Miami.

Also IIRC, at the time Miami accepted the Big East invitation, the ACC wasn't interested, so their only choices at that time were to join the Big East or stay independent.

When the BE accepted Miami, the Canes were either on probation or about to go on long term probation. That's why no other league would touch them.
02-23-2015 08:20 PM
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 07:33 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  
(02-23-2015 07:13 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Gene Corrigan was ACC commissioner in 91 when FSU joined. He lobbied hard for Penn State at the time. The ACC presidents refused to discuss Penn State.

That's not what happened.

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf...g_ten.html

I think wolfman is referring to Penn State and the ACC in the late 70's/early 80's instead of what happened in the last 80's early 90's.

MD was always a vote against expansion in favor of Penn State - I realize that makes no sense today, but that was their mindset for decades. They didn't want to look at Florida when Florida put out overtures in the 70's.

I don't know that Corrigan could have obtained the votes he needed to add Penn State because adding Penn State meant that UNC and Duke would lose ACC Basketball Tournament Books and their booster program was based on those books.

The need to get Penn State, doesn't become apparent until Penn State is gone and if PSU was added instead of FSU, I think the SEC adds Arkansas and FSU instead of Arkansas and SC.
02-23-2015 08:21 PM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 07:36 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

UM and FSU never had invites to the SEC. UF wouldn't allow that to happen. A bit of light flirting happened between Indian maidens and Sec, but it never was serious.

BE was not hurt having ND as a partial member, it helped with TV and bowls.
Inviting VT day one as full member would not have mattered.

Pretty sure the order was: FSU, Miami, and then finally South Carolina when expansion was taking place in 1991. FSU held out, and the SEC withdrew their invitation after it appeared the Seminoles were headed to the ACC.
02-23-2015 08:26 PM
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Post: #20
RE: Self-inflicted realignment wounds
(02-23-2015 06:10 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  
(02-23-2015 04:40 PM)prp Wrote:  Most teams or conferences that have suffered from realignment have done so because of events that happened outside of their control. A few, however, have suffered because of their own choices. What are some of the worst self-inflicted wounds over the years?

Some obvious ones:
Tulane leaving the SEC
Big East rejecting Penn State
WAC expanding to 16 teams
Big 12 rejecting Louisville

And a few others that are debatable about whether they were good or bad long-term decisions:
Georgia Tech leaving the SEC
Miami and FSU choosing the Big East and ACC, respectively, over the SEC
Big 12's North-South division alignment and the failure to preserve the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry
Big East inviting ND as a partial member and holding out on full membership for Virginia Tech
Big 10 rejecting Missouri
Rutgers picking the A10 over the Big East back in the late 70s

This is a far from complete list and I'm sure there will be debate on some of the items I did include. What should be on the list?

I was a student at UConn when the Big East rejected Penn State. Even at 20 years old, I knew that was a stupid decision.

But the selfish Connecticut Attorney General (now governor) takes the cake for screw ups in the era of realignment.

Unsure if this has been addressed, but he's the senior US Senator. NOT the Governor.

Also, why are you ignoring the President of Pitt's role in the lawsuit?
(This post was last modified: 02-23-2015 08:59 PM by DefCONNOne.)
02-23-2015 08:57 PM
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