(02-12-2015 12:10 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 11:26 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  I didn't watch the whole video but even where they started talking about the number of stars above the woman's head (which had to be a certain number) and then you had to add planets in there....there are way more stars in that area than the few he showed. So which ones count?

The ones that the majority of the civilized world has considered to be Leo the Lion for 3000+ years.

Yes, its that blunt and true.

The ancient Israelis saw Leo virtually the same way we do now. Our constellation chart was not created 50 years ago, it been cobbled together from the major and most popular constellation patters collected all through world history. The majority of all civilizations the last 3500+ years have always considered the Virgin, Leo, Orion, Pleiades, the Bear and several other major constellations all to be and mean similar things.

The pyramids were built based on the constellation Orion 4500 years ago.

Also if the sign is meant to be found in 2017, should it not be readable with 2017 knowledge and star maps?

How dark does the sky need to be? I would venture to guess you could see more stars in those constellations 2000 years ago than you can now, just because of light pollution. Also, the actual constellations and their borders were defined in the past 150 years, for the purposes of consistency. The general outline of the constellations were known, but it's doubtful that everyone agreed on the exact same stars being included, over the course of a few thousand years.

(02-12-2015 12:19 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  How dark does the sky need to be? I would venture to guess you could see more stars in those constellations 2000 years ago than you can now, just because of light pollution. Also, the actual constellations and their borders were defined in the past 150 years, for the purposes of consistency. The general outline of the constellations were known, but it's doubtful that everyone agreed on the exact same stars being included, over the course of a few thousand years.

None of the specific stars involved in this sign are in dispute in anyway beyond some fantasy you are postulating here. There is a giant box in the middle of Virgo that people have been seeing and writing about for 5000 years. Furthermore there is a spectacular lion at her head of 9 stars. Leo sticks out like a sore thumb. You can see it in the night sky right now. Its stands out form the other stars in a rather blunt manner. Hence, it has been seen as a constellation for many thousands of years.

Furthermore what does it matter how they were seen 3000 years ago if the sign happens in 2017? That makes no sense at all.

How they are seen today is what matters because its the people of today who have to find and read the sign. The sign is not meant for people 3000 years ago, its meant for the people in 2017. In 2017 Leo is a 9 star constellation and the 3 planets will perfectly align on that day to make it a perfect 12 star crown.

I mean seriously, you are arguing about the most famous and amazingly bright, obvious constellations in the sky. Find a more logical argument.

http://starryskies.com/The_sky/constellations/leo.html


Leo is an impressive and easy to recognize constellation, dominating the spring skies in the northern hemisphere and autumn skies in the southern hemisphere. Leo is the fifth zodiac constellation and the one most easily recognized: the crouching lion facing westward, with a distinctive head and mane marked by a sickle of stars which look like a backwards question mark. The brightest star is Regulus, which lies south of the pointer stars in the Big Dipper and to the northwest of Virgo. Leo's midnight culmination is around March 1.

The lion has been identified with the Sun since the earliest Mesopotamian civilizations. In the formative period of settled civilizations in Mesopotamia and Egypt, some five millennia ago, the Sun's passage at midday through this area of the sky coincided with the midsummer solstice. Leo was therefore the constellation of high summer, which is manifestly the realm of the Sun.

The Dendera zodiac , or planisphere is a large sandstone medallion that shows many ancient constellations and asterisms. It was discovered on a ceiling in 1799 by one of Napoleon's officers in the temple of Isis at Dendera, which is located on the Nile River about 60 km north of Luxor. This star map is believed to date from the time of Cleopatra in the first century BC and to depict sky figures that were known in Egypt at that time, both indigenous as well as those borrowed from Mesopotamia and Greece. The Dendera planisphere shows a lion in the part of the sky that we associate with Leo.

My question is....Who gave the Constellations their names in the first place? The entire premise of this assumes that the pattern of stars viewed from Earth actually represent anything and are not simply just figments of mans imagination. While the patterns are astrologically repeated during the year. It is man that has decided to give them names. Each one could represent a myriad of different things.

Then again...Maybe I need to stock up on supplies.

(02-12-2015 01:04 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  My question is....Who gave the Constellations their names in the first place? The entire premise of this assumes that the pattern of stars viewed from Earth actually represent anything and are not simply just figments of mans imagination. While the patterns are astrologically repeated during the year. It is man that has decided to give them names. Each one could represent a myriad of different things.

Then again...Maybe I need to stock up on supplies.

Well some of the names were different in other cultures but another amazing coincidence is many key stars and constellations seem to mean/represent the same things in many languages.

For example, Regulus, the brightest star in Leo means "King" star in Mesopotamian, Greek, Egyptian, plus many other key cultures throughout history. As well as the Lion itself has has significance in great numbers of people for thousands of years.

But again, focusing on the ancient meanings or differences is misleading because the sign is a 2017 sign. It should correlate with the signs and star knowledge of today. It does perfectly and only does once EVER in human history. This is scientific fact, not an opinion.

And it only happened when we had the knowledge to see it thanks to computer programs. This would not have been "visible" in ancient times. The sun would have kept Virgo covered up for months. It was totally impossible to fully track and prove this 2000 years ago. It only became possible in the 20th century.

Read on to learn of the red dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns on its heads:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV

(02-12-2015 12:31 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 12:19 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  How dark does the sky need to be? I would venture to guess you could see more stars in those constellations 2000 years ago than you can now, just because of light pollution. Also, the actual constellations and their borders were defined in the past 150 years, for the purposes of consistency. The general outline of the constellations were known, but it's doubtful that everyone agreed on the exact same stars being included, over the course of a few thousand years.

Actually they did in most of the major constellations were are talking about here.

None of the specific stars involved in this sign are in dispute in anyway beyond some fantasy you are postulating here.

Furthermore what does it matter how they were seen 3000 years ago if the sign happens in 2017? That makes no sense at all.

How they are seen today is what matters because it the people of today who have to find and read the sign.

In any case, I don't believe a word of it, but I'm into astronomy and not religious portents.

(02-12-2015 01:37 PM)MrMxyzptlk Wrote:  Read on to learn of the red dragon with 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns on its heads:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV

13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.


I feel that this verse might be speaking of America and the safe haven and protection the Jews & Christians were given here starting at the turn of the 20th century. They were being persecuted all over the world and then millions were killed by the Russians and the holocaust happened via Hitler.

No other nation other than the British (who played a vital role in Israels return in 1947) has ever saved or housed this many Jews for this many years. Pretty much no nation has ever helped the Jews until England and the US. To this day we are their protector and some 5-6 million Jews live in American. Nearly as many that are in Israel today.

(02-12-2015 09:13 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  I want to believe you, but so far, apocalypse predictions are batting an impressive 0%.

The Bible says that no man can predict the coming of Jesus.

This could be close, but I now know that 9-23-17 won't be the return of Jesus, though I do believe it is soon.

(02-12-2015 11:03 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 10:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 10:19 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 10:07 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  It's also remarkable that Pete Carroll called the play he did, doesn't have biblical implications.

agreed, The Bible never mentioned a play call in the super bowl.

And there is no constellation of Pete Carroll on the sidelines making a call. We would also need a constellation of a chained up Beast, a great opposing coach and a Golden Boy with a beautiful Goddess and some deflated balls.

"And I saw a sign in heaven of a man with the head of a Seahawk and he was making a terrible call before the great multitudes. And woe was unto The Beast, which did not get the ball. And the man with the head of a Seahawk was cast alive into the lake of fire which was on twitter. And there was great weeping and gnashing of teeth in Seattle."

yup, not in the Bible or in the sky

You're acting as if the bible states any of your assertions explicitly, when it doesn't. What is the most compelling piece of text in your opinion?

I think its stated pretty clearly, but I claim no special knowledge. Just lucky to have stumbled across it. Your question was already answered in the previous posts and videos.

Revelation 12:1-2 is an exact description of what takes place in Virgo on that set day. 4 specific "markers" are given in that passage and sign and all 4 play out in absolutely perfect fashion on that day.

There is no other day when all 4 played out in the Virgin constellation in human history. This is not an opinion, it is a scientific fact.

Does it not give you pause that Virgo (as all of the Constellations) is a pagan symbol with no real relevance whatsoever to Christianity? Many things, like Christmas<==>Winter Solstice, Christmas Trees<==>Germanic Pagan Tradition, Day Of the Dead<==>Aztec (or whatever) custom, are mere trivialities and artifacts of the Catholic Church wanting to spread to areas that hold those traditions. But, using Greek Mythology Symbols that honor Greek Heros and Demigods to determine the end of Days sounds just a little bit of an odd thing for the One True God to do.

(02-12-2015 10:49 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  You're acting as if the bible states any of your assertions explicitly, when it doesn't. What is the most compelling piece of text in your opinion?

Consider it the same faith that you have that says the Earth is millions of years old according to radiometric measures.

(02-12-2015 12:10 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 11:26 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  I didn't watch the whole video but even where they started talking about the number of stars above the woman's head (which had to be a certain number) and then you had to add planets in there....there are way more stars in that area than the few he showed. So which ones count?

The ones that the majority of the civilized world have considered to be Leo the Lion for 3000+ years.

Yes, its that blunt and true. Leo is 9 stars, you need 3 more in a strait line for a crown of 12. You have to have 3 planets over 3 more stars otherwise she would have a permanently set 12 star crown all the time and the alignment would not be nearly as unique as this one. Only planets can move into alignment with a constellation, pause and them move out.

The ancient Israelis saw Leo virtually the same way we do now. Our constellation chart was not created 50 years ago, it been cobbled together from the major and most popular constellation patters collected all through world history. The majority of all civilizations the last 3500+ years have always considered the Virgin, Leo, Orion, Pleiades, the Bear and several other major constellations all to be and mean similar things.

The pyramids were built based on the constellation Orion 4500 years ago.

Also if the sign is meant to be found in 2017, should it not be readable with 2017 knowledge and star maps? Why would it need to correlate to a star map from 3000 years ago? No one from 3000 years ago will be alive in 2017.

I wonder if they'll stay in place for 7 years while there's hell on earth with beasts from the ground, etc after the rapture...

I want to thank god that I'm A theist......

(02-12-2015 02:09 PM)I45owl Wrote:  Does it not give you pause that Virgo (as all of the Constellations) is a pagan symbol with no real relevance whatsoever to Christianity?

No relevance? Did He not create the stars? Did He not make the 12 constellations and name them the Mazzaroth?

You seem to be forgetting that everything God created in the beginning was corrupted by sin. The corrupting of the stars by Paganism is just another example of the corruption of the whole world. Virgo is a pagan symbol, the Virgin is not. Virgo has been known as "the Virgin" through all of Hebrew/Jewish history.

As the bible says, he alone put the stars in the sky and put them there for signs, seasons and measuring time.

Genesis 1:14 KJV
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years


If He put them there, then they are NOT pagan, they are His and His alone. The bible does not say "stop reading the Sun, moon and stars if the Pagans corrupt it in worldly literature". Quite the opposite, it tells us specifically to keep watching them even unto the latter days. Not only for biblical based signs, but for keeping track of the times and seasons. YHWH specifically had the Israelites keep track of the movements of the sun and moon through the stars to keep the feast days and jubilees 100% accurate every year.

Did Jesus himself not say there would be signs in the sun moon and stars? Did he not say "LOOK UP!" concerning these signs?

Luke 21:25
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars...

I guess it was some of the other versus in the video that made me surprised. It's hard to credit the Pleiades as a universally known constellation, as if every culture looked up and said, "hey, there's a bunch of sisters". You can consider me skeptical that interpretation of the same set of stars as Virgo arose independently among cultures without influence from the Greeks, but I'll defer on that argument for now.

Job 9:9 NIV - He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV Wrote:He is the Maker of the Bear[a] and Orion,     the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

(02-12-2015 03:09 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I guess it was some of the other versus in the video that made me surprised. It's hard to credit the Pleiades as a universally known constellation, as if every culture looked up and said, "hey, there's a bunch of sisters". You can consider me skeptical that interpretation of the same set of stars as Virgo arose independently among cultures without influence from the Greeks, but I'll defer on that argument for now.

Job 9:9 NIV - He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV Wrote:He is the Maker of the Bear[a] and Orion,     the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Again, What does it matter what people thought made up the constellations 3000 years ago?

The sign did not appear 3000 years ago, it only happens once, in 2017 AD.

If the sign is real then it is intended to be known by the people living in 2017, thus the sign should correlate and line up with the knowledge used in 2017 AD, not 3000 BC.

The civilized world has called Virgo the Virgin for thousands of years.

The bible refers specifically to a virgin in the sky. The signs all line up perfectly with the knowledge and understanding we have available today. These signs have never lined up in this fashion in human history.

(02-12-2015 03:47 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 03:09 PM)I45owl Wrote:  I guess it was some of the other versus in the video that made me surprised. It's hard to credit the Pleiades as a universally known constellation, as if every culture looked up and said, "hey, there's a bunch of sisters". You can consider me skeptical that interpretation of the same set of stars as Virgo arose independently among cultures without influence from the Greeks, but I'll defer on that argument for now.

Job 9:9 NIV - He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion, - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...ersion=NIV Wrote:He is the Maker of the Bear[a] and Orion,     the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.

Again, What does it matter what people thought made up the constellations 3000 years ago?

The sign did not appear 3000 years ago, it only happens once, in 2017 AD.

If the sign is real then it is intended to be known by the people living in 2017, thus the sign should correlate and line up with the knowledge used in 2017 AD, not 3000 BC.

The civilized world has called Virgo the Virgin for thousands of years.

The bible refers specifically to a virgin in the sky. The signs all line up perfectly with the knowledge and understanding we have available today. These signs have never lined up in this fashion in human history.

People didn't know what year it was back in 3000 BC anyways.

I don't know anything about Biblical prophecy but I have to say this has been a really interesting read. Eric did a good job with all of this.

(02-12-2015 03:47 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Again, What does it matter what people thought made up the constellations 3000 years ago?

Because planets appear to go past stars in every day of every year.

I will note that I categorically reject revealed truth of religious texts, and do not accept even the deist conception of a deity. But, I'm not really trying to belittle your beliefs here.

Constellations are meaningless constructs in terms of Astronomy. They are significant in Astrology and in various mythologies. But, using the constellation Virgo and the text of Revelations seems to me to be a mythological Mashup.