(01-30-2015 10:49 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I go back to what I said though. If you are a top level team- you aren't giong to schedule BYU as your top OOC opponent.

My hunch is they did this only to help the middle/lower tier programs be able to just schedule BYU as their requirement to help them get bowl eligible.

Good point, I didn't think of that angle.

BYU still has to prove it on the field. They beat P5 teams when they are down just as any G5 team would but they rarely beat P5 teams when those P5 teams are really good...unlike the top G5 schools who do beat P5 schools that are really good that year.

(01-30-2015 10:59 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I think you will see BYU being seen as a G5 H/H replacement. As I predicted earlier in the thread, it would not surprise me to see the ACC and BYU do a similar football deal. Five ACC games for teams that don't have ND. So basically teams 10 teams of the 14 will have a game with one of these two. BYU will bring the Poinsettia bowl and PAC 12/ACC will sign a deal with the LA Christmas Bowl. Bring the ACC tie-ins up by two more bowls. My question will it be announced this year or next. :)

I know NCSU signed a deal with H/H with Marshall. Say the year state plays Marshall and if BYU was added, I would be happy with those two team and have no issue with BYU labeled as a P5 team to meet the requirement. I would rather watch BYU than lets say Kansas or Indiana as NCSU fan.

except that the Poinsettia Bowl isn't BYU all years.

(01-30-2015 10:58 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 03:09 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-29-2015 12:14 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If the SEC was smart they wouldn't. BYU isn't equal to a P5 team quite frankly.

I would take BYU over a lot of P5 teams.

Most of them are in the acc

They most assuredly are not. They are in all other conferences as well.

I really don't get the conference bravado and other conference bashing.

Why do you guys care about other conferences so much? It is baffling to me.

(01-30-2015 11:50 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Why do you guys care about other conferences so much? It is baffling to me.

It's a long tradition in college football, but one exacerbated since the BCS came into existence, as that was the first all-inclusive structure to pit conference champs against each other for a national title.

(01-30-2015 11:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 10:59 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  I think you will see BYU being seen as a G5 H/H replacement. As I predicted earlier in the thread, it would not surprise me to see the ACC and BYU do a similar football deal. Five ACC games for teams that don't have ND. So basically teams 10 teams of the 14 will have a game with one of these two. BYU will bring the Poinsettia bowl and PAC 12/ACC will sign a deal with the LA Christmas Bowl. Bring the ACC tie-ins up by two more bowls. My question will it be announced this year or next. :)

I know NCSU signed a deal with H/H with Marshall. Say the year state plays Marshall and if BYU was added, I would be happy with those two team and have no issue with BYU labeled as a P5 team to meet the requirement. I would rather watch BYU than lets say Kansas or Indiana as NCSU fan.

except that the Poinsettia Bowl isn't BYU all years.

True, BYU has it in 2016 and 2018. If this were to occur, I think 2019 or 2020 would be the earliest time frame when BYU could be added to schedules with the least conflict. Right around negations for the new bowl contracts for the next six years thus why I think BYU could bring it as part of the deal. Then again, I will just be happy to be alive in 2020

(01-30-2015 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:50 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Why do you guys care about other conferences so much? It is baffling to me.

It's a long tradition in college football, but one exacerbated since the BCS came into existence, as that was the first all-inclusive structure to pit conference champs against each other for a national title.

It's not a long tradition. It's an ESPN-era thing, hyped to the point where a lot of fans and a lot of ESPN personalities really think that teams primarily represent conferences and not schools.

Way back when, there was only one college sports event a year -- the Rose Bowl -- that I ever thought of as pitting one conference vs. another. There was no ESPN around in 1975 to breathlessly hype a UCLA vs. Kentucky basketball game (that year's NCAA final) as "Pac-8 vs. SEC! OMG! OMG! OMG!" It was UCLA vs. Kentucky, period.

(01-30-2015 12:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:50 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Why do you guys care about other conferences so much? It is baffling to me.

It's a long tradition in college football, but one exacerbated since the BCS came into existence, as that was the first all-inclusive structure to pit conference champs against each other for a national title.

It's not a long tradition.

It actually is. I remember debates in the 1970s and 1980s about which conference was strongest. It's just a lot more intense these days.

I said it in the thread on the ACC board and it deserves to be repeated here. After reading the posts here and elsewhere I hope it leaks out that the ACC made this decision solely to troll the AAC. Man the butthurt is strong there.

(01-30-2015 12:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  It's not a long tradition. It's an ESPN-era thing, hyped to the point where a lot of fans and a lot of ESPN personalities really think that teams primarily represent conferences and not schools.

Way back when, there was only one college sports event a year -- the Rose Bowl -- that I ever thought of as pitting one conference vs. another. There was no ESPN around in 1975 to breathlessly hype a UCLA vs. Kentucky basketball game (that year's NCAA final) as "Pac-8 vs. SEC! OMG! OMG! OMG!" It was UCLA vs. Kentucky, period.

Not sure what to tell you other than most university athletic brands don't sell themselves nationally. There are a few, but most don't.

(01-30-2015 02:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I hope it leaks out that the ACC made this decision solely to troll the AAC. Man the butthurt is strong there.

??

(01-30-2015 02:58 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I said it in the thread on the ACC board and it deserves to be repeated here. After reading the posts here and elsewhere I hope it leaks out that the ACC made this decision solely to troll the AAC. Man the butthurt is strong there.

(01-30-2015 12:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:57 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 11:50 AM)TerryD Wrote:  Why do you guys care about other conferences so much? It is baffling to me.

It's a long tradition in college football, but one exacerbated since the BCS came into existence, as that was the first all-inclusive structure to pit conference champs against each other for a national title.

It's not a long tradition. It's an ESPN-era thing, hyped to the point where a lot of fans and a lot of ESPN personalities really think that teams primarily represent conferences and not schools.

Way back when, there was only one college sports event a year -- the Rose Bowl -- that I ever thought of as pitting one conference vs. another. There was no ESPN around in 1975 to breathlessly hype a UCLA vs. Kentucky basketball game (that year's NCAA final) as "Pac-8 vs. SEC! OMG! OMG! OMG!" It was UCLA vs. Kentucky, period.

Gotta point...it was about the team/university not the league...if it was about the league then BYU would not have been voted National Champs because they played in a Mid Major WAC...They would have been treated as a Undefeated Bouse State is treated now...

(01-30-2015 10:45 AM)Maize Wrote:  ...as for BYU they are in regards to on field historical success and Attendence is a P5 Level program without a league...

East coasters have a strange view of football "history" for western mid majors which seems to have been formed during the 80's when Fresno and BYU were relevant.

Some all time records for teams of note vs BYU
Vs TCU: 5 W, 6 L
Vs Boise: 1 W, 4 L
Vs Fresno 4 W, 5 L
Vs Arizona 9 W, 12 L
Vs ASU 7 W, 20 L
Vs Utah 31 W, 54 L 4 ties

Lavell Edwards had 257 wins at BYU. The remainder of BYU coaches in a century of play have recorded 227 wins. Edwards recorded 22/31 wins over Utah with all other BYU coaches cumulatively 9-47-4. BYU's history is that they had one of the greatest, and probably least appreciated coaches in the history of college football. Prior to Edwards it was terrible. After Edwards, it lives of the residue of his accomplishments.

(01-31-2015 05:27 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 10:45 AM)Maize Wrote:  ...as for BYU they are in regards to on field historical success and Attendence is a P5 Level program without a league...

East coasters have a strange view of football "history" for western mid majors which seems to have been formed during the 80's when Fresno and BYU were relevant.

Some all time records for teams of note vs BYU
Vs TCU: 5 W, 6 L
Vs Boise: 1 W, 4 L
Vs Fresno 4 W, 5 L
Vs Arizona 9 W, 12 L
Vs ASU 7 W, 20 L
Vs Utah 31 W, 54 L 4 ties

Lavell Edwards had 257 wins at BYU. The remainder of BYU coaches in a century of play have recorded 227 wins. Edwards recorded 22/31 wins over Utah with all other BYU coaches cumulatively 9-47-4. BYU's history is that they had one of the greatest, and probably least appreciated coaches in the history of college football. Prior to Edwards it was terrible. After Edwards, it lives of the residue of his accomplishments.

Sorry, I was daydreaming for a bit there. Were you talking about Florida STate or Penn State? Or Virginia Tech?

(Yes you said least appreciated. But I think my point stands.)

(01-31-2015 06:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 05:27 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 10:45 AM)Maize Wrote:  ...as for BYU they are in regards to on field historical success and Attendence is a P5 Level program without a league...

East coasters have a strange view of football "history" for western mid majors which seems to have been formed during the 80's when Fresno and BYU were relevant.

Some all time records for teams of note vs BYU
Vs TCU: 5 W, 6 L
Vs Boise: 1 W, 4 L
Vs Fresno 4 W, 5 L
Vs Arizona 9 W, 12 L
Vs ASU 7 W, 20 L
Vs Utah 31 W, 54 L 4 ties

Lavell Edwards had 257 wins at BYU. The remainder of BYU coaches in a century of play have recorded 227 wins. Edwards recorded 22/31 wins over Utah with all other BYU coaches cumulatively 9-47-4. BYU's history is that they had one of the greatest, and probably least appreciated coaches in the history of college football. Prior to Edwards it was terrible. After Edwards, it lives of the residue of his accomplishments.

Sorry, I was daydreaming for a bit there. Were you talking about Florida STate or Penn State? Or Virginia Tech?

(Yes you said least appreciated. But I think my point stands.)

I don't follow. What point are you trying to make?

(01-31-2015 11:58 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 06:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 05:27 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 10:45 AM)Maize Wrote:  ...as for BYU they are in regards to on field historical success and Attendence is a P5 Level program without a league...

East coasters have a strange view of football "history" for western mid majors which seems to have been formed during the 80's when Fresno and BYU were relevant.

Some all time records for teams of note vs BYU
Vs TCU: 5 W, 6 L
Vs Boise: 1 W, 4 L
Vs Fresno 4 W, 5 L
Vs Arizona 9 W, 12 L
Vs ASU 7 W, 20 L
Vs Utah 31 W, 54 L 4 ties

Lavell Edwards had 257 wins at BYU. The remainder of BYU coaches in a century of play have recorded 227 wins. Edwards recorded 22/31 wins over Utah with all other BYU coaches cumulatively 9-47-4. BYU's history is that they had one of the greatest, and probably least appreciated coaches in the history of college football. Prior to Edwards it was terrible. After Edwards, it lives of the residue of his accomplishments.

Sorry, I was daydreaming for a bit there. Were you talking about Florida STate or Penn State? Or Virginia Tech?

(Yes you said least appreciated. But I think my point stands.)

I don't follow. What point are you trying to make?

What he is saying what you describe was pretty much what Virginia Tech and Florida State were before Beamer and Bowden.

BYU since 1980 has both a National Championship Team and a Heisman Trophy winner...since that Time the last of schools that have accomplished both is very small out of the 120 plus FBS Schools.

(01-31-2015 11:58 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 06:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-31-2015 05:27 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 10:45 AM)Maize Wrote:  ...as for BYU they are in regards to on field historical success and Attendence is a P5 Level program without a league...

East coasters have a strange view of football "history" for western mid majors which seems to have been formed during the 80's when Fresno and BYU were relevant.

Some all time records for teams of note vs BYU
Vs TCU: 5 W, 6 L
Vs Boise: 1 W, 4 L
Vs Fresno 4 W, 5 L
Vs Arizona 9 W, 12 L
Vs ASU 7 W, 20 L
Vs Utah 31 W, 54 L 4 ties

Lavell Edwards had 257 wins at BYU. The remainder of BYU coaches in a century of play have recorded 227 wins. Edwards recorded 22/31 wins over Utah with all other BYU coaches cumulatively 9-47-4. BYU's history is that they had one of the greatest, and probably least appreciated coaches in the history of college football.

Sorry, I was daydreaming for a bit there. Were you talking about Florida STate or Penn State? Or Virginia Tech?

(Yes you said least appreciated. But I think my point stands.)

I don't follow. What point are you trying to make?

That BYU is not the only FBS school to have had a mediocre record before a great coach came along who built a program over decades.

The first metric that comes up as I google is top 25 finishes.
EDIT: Forgot to Credible Hulk the link
BYU was relevant in the 1980s, obviously, with a national title and 6 top 25's.
They had 4 in the 1990s, 5 from 2000-09, and a #25 Coaches in 2011.

So at worst, they've been relevant for "only" 30 years.

Quote:Prior to Edwards it was terrible. After Edwards, it lives of the residue of his accomplishments.

As my examples were supposed to indicate, that's hardly a situation unique to BYU.