(01-26-2015 12:52 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I guess my question would be- does this fufill the p5 requirement for UNC and Wake Forest for those years?

It is a chicken-bleep requirement if it does. For example, I would be more impressed by UNC scheduling a good Boise or BYU home and home vs. 2-10 Wake Forest team.

Then you don't understand the history of the series. We've been playing Wake for over 100 years. The state of NC would rather see that game than Boise or BYU.

(01-26-2015 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 12:48 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 12:28 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:33 AM)freshtop Wrote:  Unless I am missing something, these two are both in the ACC. So now they will play a non-conference game (one that doesn't effect conference standings) and possibly a conference game that same season? Weird.

The ACC schedules in non-division rotation years in advance. UNC and Wake are not scheduled to meet in conference in either of those years. I would expect this might spur NC State and Duke to follow suit. Both of these schools have exceptionally weak (and unattractive) non-conference schedules. Playing each other instead of some SBC team nobody wants to see makes a ton of sense.

Especially since with the current configuration of only playing twice every 12 years. I would be happy if NCSU and Duke were to follow suit. Basically home games for each team. In addition, it also qualifies as a P5 game. I hope this doesn't happen but I could see NCSU and UNC use this as out to play ECU once the contracts expire. I hope it does not happen, I think it is a great rivalry and game for the region. The every three year rotation works good.

I'd like to hope that the ECU games make so much sense that they'll continue despite this development. They are always going to be sellouts and attractive regional TV games. How much more attractive would NC State's schedule be next year if Duke and ECU replaced Troy and South Alabama?

I don't disagree, especially playing at USA and ODU next season I wish there was a way to swap @USA for @ECU this season. I can at least go to the ECU game for a day trip.

(01-26-2015 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I guess my question would be- does this fufill the p5 requirement for UNC and Wake Forest for those years?

Of course it should. These are all P5 schools, so in the league's eyes, it would be quite strange to call your own conference's teams as "non-P5" opponents. Heck, this is better for the ACC (and frankly any other of the power conferences). These provide more TV inventory that are kept 100% in-house with the conference. I know that Big Ten teams have explored this, as well (and it has already happened before in basketball, where Indiana and Purdue scheduled a non-conference game for basketball a few years ago in a season when they didn't have 2 games against each other home-and-home in the conference schedule).

(01-26-2015 01:08 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  This is why these damn conferences do not make any sense. The BE and the Pac10 had it right. Play everyone in your conference and have a winner. All these title games are stupid. Too much luck of the draw.

I wish there were more power leagues and less 12-14 team leagues along with an 8 team playoff. That would be a better fan experience. You would actually keep regional games and rivalries!

This is what happens when you stay with 8 conference gams and have ND mess up your scheduling. Force ND to be in fully or go to 9 conference games to alleviate some of the issues.

That and not fully thinking about geographical issues of the divisions. Even going to a N/S would split up the 4 NC schools.

(01-26-2015 12:47 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I guess my question would be- does this fufill the p5 requirement for UNC and Wake Forest for those years?

Yes. Something to that effect was announced by the ACC last season during one of their off-season vacations meetings.

(01-26-2015 01:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:08 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  This is why these damn conferences do not make any sense. The BE and the Pac10 had it right. Play everyone in your conference and have a winner. All these title games are stupid. Too much luck of the draw.

I wish there were more power leagues and less 12-14 team leagues along with an 8 team playoff. That would be a better fan experience. You would actually keep regional games and rivalries!

This is what happens when you stay with 8 conference gams and have ND mess up your scheduling. Force ND to be in fully or go to 9 conference games to alleviate some of the issues.

That and not fully thinking about geographical issues of the divisions. Even going to a N/S would split up the 4 NC schools.

This was a problem even before ND scheduling went into effect. You have to sacrifice something when you move to 14 team conferences...Rivalries has been one of them. UNC and Wake have decided to do something a little difference to appeal to the fans. There's nothing wrong with that.

(01-26-2015 01:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:08 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  This is why these damn conferences do not make any sense. The BE and the Pac10 had it right. Play everyone in your conference and have a winner. All these title games are stupid. Too much luck of the draw.

I wish there were more power leagues and less 12-14 team leagues along with an 8 team playoff. That would be a better fan experience. You would actually keep regional games and rivalries!

This is what happens when you stay with 8 conference gams and have ND mess up your scheduling. Force ND to be in fully or go to 9 conference games to alleviate some of the issues.

That and not fully thinking about geographical issues of the divisions. Even going to a N/S would split up the 4 NC schools.

There has been one constant in conference realignment: there is no "forcing" Notre Dame to do anything. They have the power. The choice for the ACC was to play ND 5 times per year or none at all.

Putting aside ND, though, their ACC deal actually has nothing to with the scheduling issue. Every conference with 14 schools and divisions faces the issue of playing fewer cross-divisional games.

(01-26-2015 11:25 AM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  2019 at Wake, 2021 at UNC.

Total crap!!

If ever a conference should consider non-permanent rotating divisions, it should be the ACC. For example

Divisions in Odd number years

Odd South
Miami, FSU, GT, Clemson, Lou, NCSU, Wake

Odd North
BC, SYR, Pitt, Va, VT, UNC, Duke

Divisions in even number years

Even South
Miami, FSU, GT, Clem, Lou, UNC, Duke

Even North
BC, SYR, Pitt, Va, VT, NCSU, Wake

Then have UNC and Duke always play NCSU and Wake in cross-division games. Then the other 5 teams in each division can play each other twice every 5 years.

Or something like that.

(01-26-2015 01:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Putting aside ND, though, their ACC deal actually has nothing to with the scheduling issue.

The Notre Dame arrangement has a lot to do with it. It's likely that the ACC would play 9 conference games a year if they were not rotating ND through everyone's schedule, and if they play 9/year, each cross-division matchup gets played more often.

8 games/year: 6 division opponents + 1 fixed x-division game + 1 rotating x-division game

9 games/year: 6 division opponents + 1 fixed x-division game + 2 rotating x-division games

UNC and WF are not in the same division and are not fixed x-division rivals. As "rotating" x-division rivals, they would play each other twice as often if the ACC played 9 conference games (approximately twice every 5 years, instead of approximately once every 5 years).

(01-26-2015 01:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:08 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  This is why these damn conferences do not make any sense. The BE and the Pac10 had it right. Play everyone in your conference and have a winner. All these title games are stupid. Too much luck of the draw.

I wish there were more power leagues and less 12-14 team leagues along with an 8 team playoff. That would be a better fan experience. You would actually keep regional games and rivalries!

This is what happens when you stay with 8 conference gams and have ND mess up your scheduling. Force ND to be in fully or go to 9 conference games to alleviate some of the issues.

That and not fully thinking about geographical issues of the divisions. Even going to a N/S would split up the 4 NC schools.

There has been one constant in conference realignment: there is no "forcing" Notre Dame to do anything. They have the power. The choice for the ACC was to play ND 5 times per year or none at all.

Putting aside ND, though, their ACC deal actually has nothing to with the scheduling issue. Every conference with 14 schools and divisions faces the issue of playing fewer cross-divisional games.

There may be no 'forcing' ND but I bet it can happen because Notre Dame is using the ACC for their bowls, without that ND will be out on their own and of course they'll be able to find bowls, but they couldn't even land a OB bid for themselves.
There is a reason why ND had to submit themselves to semi-independence...and the ACC could probably have more leverage now to either have ND be all in or out.

Does anyone know how each school voted when the proposal for 9 conference games came up? I expect FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Louisville would have been against it since since they have a fixed OOC matchup each year vs the SEC. Pitt, I'm thinking, may have voted no since they hope to make the Penn State series a long term fixture. No idea about anyone else, but maybe just the fact that FSU and Clemson were opposed would have been enough to get everyone else to fall into line.

(01-26-2015 02:13 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:08 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  This is why these damn conferences do not make any sense. The BE and the Pac10 had it right. Play everyone in your conference and have a winner. All these title games are stupid. Too much luck of the draw.

I wish there were more power leagues and less 12-14 team leagues along with an 8 team playoff. That would be a better fan experience. You would actually keep regional games and rivalries!

This is what happens when you stay with 8 conference gams and have ND mess up your scheduling. Force ND to be in fully or go to 9 conference games to alleviate some of the issues.

That and not fully thinking about geographical issues of the divisions. Even going to a N/S would split up the 4 NC schools.

There has been one constant in conference realignment: there is no "forcing" Notre Dame to do anything. They have the power. The choice for the ACC was to play ND 5 times per year or none at all.

Putting aside ND, though, their ACC deal actually has nothing to with the scheduling issue. Every conference with 14 schools and divisions faces the issue of playing fewer cross-divisional games.

There may be no 'forcing' ND but I bet it can happen because Notre Dame is using the ACC for their bowls, without that ND will be out on their own and of course they'll be able to find bowls, but they couldn't even land a OB bid for themselves.
There is a reason why ND had to submit themselves to semi-independence...and the ACC could probably have more leverage now to either have ND be all in or out.

Really not sure what the big deal is? As I stated I would not mind seeing NCSU and Duke do this. I was disappointed when Pitt was sent to the coastal. I think it would be great if Pitt, Duke and UVA could work out as Non Conference games in the future. Better than playing Georgia St or Ball St.

Until the recent rise of the money frenzy, the core point of a conference was to align together schools that WANTED to play each other.

The ACC is so large now that not every desired opponent can be played. You could probably get closer by changing the divisions to 1990 and before and 1991 and beyond schools but that sort of defeats the point of adding new blood as well.

If WAC16 had taken a similar path they might have held the thing together since the core problem was scheduling

(01-26-2015 02:23 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 02:13 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:27 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 01:08 PM)bearcat29 Wrote:  This is why these damn conferences do not make any sense. The BE and the Pac10 had it right. Play everyone in your conference and have a winner. All these title games are stupid. Too much luck of the draw.

I wish there were more power leagues and less 12-14 team leagues along with an 8 team playoff. That would be a better fan experience. You would actually keep regional games and rivalries!

This is what happens when you stay with 8 conference gams and have ND mess up your scheduling. Force ND to be in fully or go to 9 conference games to alleviate some of the issues.

That and not fully thinking about geographical issues of the divisions. Even going to a N/S would split up the 4 NC schools.

There has been one constant in conference realignment: there is no "forcing" Notre Dame to do anything. They have the power. The choice for the ACC was to play ND 5 times per year or none at all.

Putting aside ND, though, their ACC deal actually has nothing to with the scheduling issue. Every conference with 14 schools and divisions faces the issue of playing fewer cross-divisional games.

There may be no 'forcing' ND but I bet it can happen because Notre Dame is using the ACC for their bowls, without that ND will be out on their own and of course they'll be able to find bowls, but they couldn't even land a OB bid for themselves.
There is a reason why ND had to submit themselves to semi-independence...and the ACC could probably have more leverage now to either have ND be all in or out.

Really not sure what the big deal is? As I stated I would not mind seeing NCSU and Duke do this. I was disappointed when Pitt was sent to the coastal. I think it would be great if Pitt, Duke and UVA could work out as Non Conference games in the future. Better than playing Georgia St or Ball St.

Please, to common people it is ridiculous to play a conference mate as an 'out-of-conference' game. It just makes the conference and the teams look stupid. Can't wait to hear the heckles (even though it started) by the time the game it played.

(01-26-2015 02:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Please, to common people it is ridiculous to play a conference mate as an 'out-of-conference' game. It just makes the conference and the teams look stupid.

Yeah, the Big XII declared it would have one champion, then did a "politician-quality" flip-flop to attempt to present both Baylor and TCU as "one true champion".

I'd be careful what we deem 'stupid' around these parts because that moment set the bar pretty high.

Wake Forest playing North Carolina OOC is harmless.

(01-26-2015 02:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Until the recent rise of the money frenzy, the core point of a conference was to align together schools that WANTED to play each other.

The ACC is so large now that not every desired opponent can be played. You could probably get closer by changing the divisions to 1990 and before and 1991 and beyond schools but that sort of defeats the point of adding new blood as well.

Well the whole point of the ACC adding new blood was to flail about desperately and destroy another league and hopefully stay in the Cartel. Mission accomplished--so what's stopping them from having the divisions be ACC Classic and ACC Big East? Everyone gets to be with who they wanted to be with in the first place.

Bonus: PEOPLE CAN REMEMBER WHO'S IN WHAT DIVISION

There is no real conspiracy here...

It's simply a case of schools who have a history of facing each other for decades keeping the series alive after their conference grew too large to allow them to face each other in-conference frequently enough for their liking.

NC State and Duke discussed non-conference football meetings at some point.

UNC and NC State actually PLAYED a non-conference baseball game last spring.

(01-26-2015 03:20 PM)Chappy Wrote:  There is no real conspiracy here...

It's simply a case of schools who have a history of facing each other for decades keeping the series alive after their conference grew too large to allow them to face each other in-conference frequently enough for their liking.

NC State and Duke discussed non-conference football meetings at some point.

UNC and NC State actually PLAYED a non-conference baseball game last spring.

In baseball, teams try to minimize travel for midweek games. I think the non-con games vs. conference opponents are common in baseball. Cal and Stanford usually play two or three non-con games every year in addition to the conference series. I think Arizona and ASU do as well.

Will the SEC follow the ACC's lead? As the only P5 conferences with a 8 game schedule, will the SEC start to schedule OOC games against each other?