(01-26-2015 05:51 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-23-2015 07:31 AM)lofi Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 10:26 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 06:04 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  Frankly, this may be the stupidest sports story I've ever been subjected to. The score was freaking 45-7. The colts didn't lose because of deflated balls. The colts lost because they're a dome team that had to play in really crappy weather, and they couldn't handle it.

THIS!

The score of the Ravens - Pats second round game was 35-31. Perhaps the Ravens should be the team that has an issue. Does anybody really think this is the first time the Pats have done this?

Exactly. I bet the Patriots have been deflating balls ever since 2007

Does anybody really believe the Patriots are the only NFL team deflating footballs? Why do you think the NFL gives the game balls back to each team without supervision, and gives them sufficient time to adjust them to the liking of their QB while they look the other way? Fans of teams that have been losing regularly to the Patriots cite their "culture of cheating" because they were caught trying to gain an unfair advantage by stealing signals. And yes, they did do that. What is also true is that 32 out of 32 NFL teams believe that the other 31 teams are trying to gain an unfair advantage by stealing their signals, just as they are trying to steal the signals of the other 31 teams. How often are they trying this? Every week of every season.

That culture of cheating is universal in sports. At every level, in every sport, on every team, at every point in human history. And expressing righteous indignation when the other guy gets caught is a universal part of that culture. And the way we justify expressing that indignation without acknowledging the hypocrisy of it is to find some technicality to show that your attempts to gain unfair advantage are more heinous than our attempts. In fact, our attempts aren't heinous at all - just legitimately using the rules to our advantage.

The Patriots are demonized because they aren't part of an in-group their critics identify with. The same reason that football fans believe SEC teams are cheating somehow in ways that their sainted boys would never do. And that many basketball fans believe that John Calipari wins because he cheats, while sainted John Wooden would never have allowed UCLA boosters to help him get top recruits, and keep their pockets filled while winning at unprecedented rates.

Demonizing winners is human nature. The internet just magnifies it.

So much jealousy and hatred for the Patriots. I love it. It makes us even more powerful.

(01-26-2015 05:51 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-23-2015 07:31 AM)lofi Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 10:26 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 06:04 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  Frankly, this may be the stupidest sports story I've ever been subjected to. The score was freaking 45-7. The colts didn't lose because of deflated balls. The colts lost because they're a dome team that had to play in really crappy weather, and they couldn't handle it.

THIS!

The score of the Ravens - Pats second round game was 35-31. Perhaps the Ravens should be the team that has an issue. Does anybody really think this is the first time the Pats have done this?

Exactly. I bet the Patriots have been deflating balls ever since 2007

actually the Ravens were the ones who tipped off the Colts about the deflated balls in the first place.

(01-26-2015 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

You know, your post reeks of an incredible irony. You state that "98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots". How is that different from your blind hatred of the Patriots??

Your second paragraph is a case in point. The issue I raised about the PSI is not "pro-Patriots speculation." It is simply a possibility. That's what investigators do. They look at the range of possibilities and begin narrowing them down based on the evidence that is uncovered. Whether you like it or not, what I stated above IS a possibility. I am not saying that's what happened. I am saying that it is a possibility that needs to be evaluated along with all of the other possibilities. What you are saying seems to be: "I hate the Patriots. I hate BB. We don't need no stinking investigation. We don't need to look at all the facts and possibilities. Let's just hang them and get it over with 'cause we hate those SOBs so much. They always beat our teams."

Oh, and BTW, since Spygate (which, if you believe that the Patriots were the only ones doing that, I've got a bridge to sell you), what other instances have occurred where the Patriots were found to be cheating???

The ultimate irony - you appear to be no different than the Pats fans you despise. Just the other side of the coin, that's all.

(01-26-2015 09:29 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 02:22 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  This stuff happens all the time. In the AFC championship game about 10 years ago, the Colts had fake crowd noise pumped through their sound system. I know the Cubs let their infield grass grow to about 6" deep to slow down ground balls when they had elderly and slow infield players.

Of course the difference here is those were not against the rules, and the Cubs had to play in the same conditions.

(01-25-2015 09:14 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Again, defensive players bark out signals to get the offensive line to jump. This happens all the time. Should those players get fined? Suspended? Banned? They're breaking the rules for a competitive advantage ...

You realize his silly you sound right? That is not even against the rules. WTF would they be suspended for? You seem to have a hard time in making these comparisons. You cannot compare a competitive advantage that is actually against the rules, to one that is perfectly legal and within the rules thinking you are making a point.

(01-25-2015 02:48 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 02:28 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  So if there's no advantage to be gained from deflating the footballs, why is there a rule in place? Pats fans can't seem to answer that question. Probably because they know they were caught cheating, then lied about cheating, then lied about lying about cheating.

There is zero proof they "cheated". But if they did, it would not be the first time this happened.

It's very odd to me that your retort is essentially "everybody does it, so it should not matter." Especially considering some of your comments in time about Penn State, and UNC, and other schools who have bent or broken rules.

Do you really think I give a sh!t about what you think? Your mind repels logic like rain off a duck's back. I don't know what insignificant NFL team you root for, but you just keep hating the Patriots and let that hate eat you up inside.

^in other words, you agree that you're a tool? SMH.

(01-26-2015 06:15 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  So much jealousy and hatred for the Patriots. I love it. It makes us even more powerful.

I see you've been hitting the crack pipe real hard today!! If you need this issue to make yourself "more powerful", you weren't (and aren't) powerful to begin with.

(01-26-2015 06:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

You know, your post reeks of an incredible irony. You state that "98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots". How is that different from your blind hatred of the Patriots??

Your second paragraph is a case in point. The issue I raised about the PSI is not "pro-Patriots speculation." It is simply a possibility. That's what investigators do. They look at the range of possibilities and begin narrowing them down based on the evidence that is uncovered. Whether you like it or not, what I stated above IS a possibility. I am not saying that's what happened. I am saying that it is a possibility that needs to be evaluated along with all of the other possibilities. What you are saying seems to be: "I hate the Patriots. I hate BB. We don't need no stinking investigation. We don't need to look at all the facts and possibilities. Let's just hang them and get it over with 'cause we hate those SOBs so much. They always beat our teams."

Oh, and BTW, since Spygate (which, if you believe that the Patriots were the only ones doing that, I've got a bridge to sell you), what other instances have occurred where the Patriots were found to be cheating???

The ultimate irony - you appear to be no different than the Pats fans you despise. Just the other side of the coin, that's all.

This is the most asinine thing I've read a Pats fan post since 10 minutes ago, when I read UCONN-SMU try to push forward the fallacy that somehow the Pats get more powerful from the "haters". You Pats fans (or the Pats team) have had 8 years to produce another team allegedly taping other teams signals. 8 f***ing years, not one other team caught. Gee, I wonder why? Oh I know, because the New England Patriots were, wait for it.......THE ONLY TEAM DOING IT!!

(01-26-2015 06:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

You know, your post reeks of an incredible irony. You state that "98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots". How is that different from your blind hatred of the Patriots??

Your second paragraph is a case in point. The issue I raised about the PSI is not "pro-Patriots speculation." It is simply a possibility. That's what investigators do. They look at the range of possibilities and begin narrowing them down based on the evidence that is uncovered. Whether you like it or not, what I stated above IS a possibility. I am not saying that's what happened. I am saying that it is a possibility that needs to be evaluated along with all of the other possibilities. What you are saying seems to be: "I hate the Patriots. I hate BB. We don't need no stinking investigation. We don't need to look at all the facts and possibilities. Let's just hang them and get it over with 'cause we hate those SOBs so much. They always beat our teams."

Oh, and BTW, since Spygate (which, if you believe that the Patriots were the only ones doing that, I've got a bridge to sell you), what other instances have occurred where the Patriots were found to be cheating???

The ultimate irony - you appear to be no different than the Pats fans you despise. Just the other side of the coin, that's all.

WTF? The Ultimate Irony is your trying to throw my "hatred" of the Patriots back in my face, when it was YOU that raised the issue of bias. In the post I previously replied to, YOU claimed that you don't "blindly" support the Patriots, but rather are unbiased and dispassionate, but that *my* post was "driven by my hatred of BB and the Patriots".

So it was entirely appropriate for me to note that generally speaking, PATRIOTS FANS are slavishly devoted to the Patriots, will BLINDLY defend the Patriots no matter what (remember all the idiotic Patriot fan defenses for Spygate?), and that they REEK of PRO-PATRIOTS bias. I even did you the courtesy of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and excepting you from that broad brush, EVEN THOUGH, your completely LAME list of "possible reasons" that BB and the Patriots aren't guilty are EXTREMELY FAR-FETCHED and thus show STRONG evidence of a HUGE CASE of BLINDLY SUPPORTING THE PATRIOTS.

And yet you have the gall to make the utterly BANAL remark that MY post is evidence of Patriots hate?

And why do i call your explanations LAME? Here's why: You lean on the "possibility" that the Colts balls were at 13.5 and the Patriots at 12.5 or somesuch. You say "like it or not, that is possible" as if that means much?

It's ALSO a "possibility" that the Angel of Death came up from Hell and deflated the Patriots balls while nobody was looking.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that an ISIS operative did so.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that Bill Clinton hired the Duke of Kent to send a British agent over to the Patriots locker room to deflate the balls.

Before you dismiss those, remember, YOU CLAIMED that one thing we need to investigate is whether SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PATRIOTS had access to the Patriots footballs! (HILARIOUS!).

But by your standard (stated above) we gotta wait until ALL those possibilities are exhausted before we condemn the Patriots?

Be honest Pal: What's more likely, that the Patriots deflated the balls, or that the balls JUST HAPPENED to be initially pumped to a level where, when exposed to the atmosphere, ELEVEN of the Patriots balls became under-inflated, but ZERO of the Colts balls were?

Stop clowning, stop hiding behind RIDICULOUS possibilities. Sack up and ADMIT you are a CRAVEN, DESPERATE for a 4th ring PATRIOTS LOVER.

PS - I just noticed that you invoked the "everyone else was doing it!" defense for Spygate! Patriots HACK ...

(01-26-2015 06:15 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  So much jealousy and hatred for the Patriots. I love it. It makes us even more powerful.

I just want Jamie Collins to get a super bowl ring

(01-27-2015 01:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 06:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

You know, your post reeks of an incredible irony. You state that "98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots". How is that different from your blind hatred of the Patriots??

Your second paragraph is a case in point. The issue I raised about the PSI is not "pro-Patriots speculation." It is simply a possibility. That's what investigators do. They look at the range of possibilities and begin narrowing them down based on the evidence that is uncovered. Whether you like it or not, what I stated above IS a possibility. I am not saying that's what happened. I am saying that it is a possibility that needs to be evaluated along with all of the other possibilities. What you are saying seems to be: "I hate the Patriots. I hate BB. We don't need no stinking investigation. We don't need to look at all the facts and possibilities. Let's just hang them and get it over with 'cause we hate those SOBs so much. They always beat our teams."

Oh, and BTW, since Spygate (which, if you believe that the Patriots were the only ones doing that, I've got a bridge to sell you), what other instances have occurred where the Patriots were found to be cheating???

The ultimate irony - you appear to be no different than the Pats fans you despise. Just the other side of the coin, that's all.

WTF? The Ultimate Irony is your trying to throw my "hatred" of the Patriots back in my face, when it was YOU that raised the issue of bias. In the post I previously replied to, YOU claimed that you don't "blindly" support the Patriots, but rather are unbiased and dispassionate, but that *my* post was "driven by my hatred of BB and the Patriots".

So it was entirely appropriate for me to note that generally speaking, PATRIOTS FANS are slavishly devoted to the Patriots, will BLINDLY defend the Patriots no matter what (remember all the idiotic Patriot fan defenses for Spygate?), and that they REEK of PRO-PATRIOTS bias. I even did you the courtesy of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and excepting you from that broad brush, EVEN THOUGH, your completely LAME list of "possible reasons" that BB and the Patriots aren't guilty are EXTREMELY FAR-FETCHED and thus show STRONG evidence of a HUGE CASE of BLINDLY SUPPORTING THE PATRIOTS.

And yet you have the gall to make the utterly BANAL remark that MY post is evidence of Patriots hate?

And why do i call your explanations LAME? Here's why: You lean on the "possibility" that the Colts balls were at 13.5 and the Patriots at 12.5 or somesuch. You say "like it or not, that is possible" as if that means much?

It's ALSO a "possibility" that the Angel of Death came up from Hell and deflated the Patriots balls while nobody was looking.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that an ISIS operative did so.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that Bill Clinton hired the Duke of Kent to send a British agent over to the Patriots locker room to deflate the balls.

Before you dismiss those, remember, YOU CLAIMED that one thing we need to investigate is whether SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PATRIOTS had access to the Patriots footballs! (HILARIOUS!).

But by your standard (stated above) we gotta wait until ALL those possibilities are exhausted before we condemn the Patriots?

Be honest Pal: What's more likely, that the Patriots deflated the balls, or that the balls JUST HAPPENED to be initially pumped to a level where, when exposed to the atmosphere, ELEVEN of the Patriots balls became under-inflated, but ZERO of the Colts balls were?

Stop clowning, stop hiding behind RIDICULOUS possibilities. Sack up and ADMIT you are a CRAVEN, DESPERATE for a 4th ring PATRIOTS LOVER.

PS - I just noticed that you invoked the "everyone else was doing it!" defense for Spygate! Patriots HACK ...

Ya know, you can always tell when someone is arguing based purely on emotion and not on facts and intelligence when they capitalize one word after another and use words like CRAVEN and DESPERATE to describe a situation where hard facts as to who, how and why, have yet to surface.

The answers to the who, how, and why are critical in any investigation. Without satisfactory answers to those questions, you get the lovely rushes to judgement that we have seen all too frequently. Ever heard of the Duke Lacrosse case? How about the more recent UVA fraternity accusations? In both those situations, many people were convinced of guilt and leveled one condemnation after another. It was only through the sober investigations of the who, how, and why that the initial group-think was unraveled, after much suffering of the falsely accused.

This Patriots situation is NOT analogous to these cases, but the process of investigation is. This is how smart, professional people who want to get to the truth of a dispute, in a manner that all sides can buy into, conduct business. Angry mobs and haters have no need for such trivialities. They don't like someone or something? - simple, grab the torches and pitchforks, and off with their heads! Sadly, we see this type of approach all over the world these days. By your statements, IMO, you clearly fall into this group as far as this issue is concerned.

Yes, I did lay out a variety of possibilities. Whether you think they are significant or not, they are possibilities that will be investigated. Why are you afraid of an honest investigation into these allegations?

Oh, and once again, I have always maintained that if a thorough investigation proves that the Patriots did this and have been untruthful, I will be the first to support any and all sanctions levied against them. Why is that so unreasonable to you? Your view, as you clearly articulate, seems to be: "I hate them. They did it. Don't bother with an investigation. They are the Patriots so they must be guilty. They are not deserving of any due process. I hate them. I hate them. I hate them. Off with their heads!" Does that sound like an intelligent position?

Finally - dude, why so angry? I have been on this board long enough to read many of your other posts. You are an intelligent person. However, IMO, in this thread, you sound like a crazed idiot. Take a deep breath and let the investigation proceed. That's what civilized people do. Fine to have an opinion and a gut hunch. Just reserve final judgement until the investigation is concluded. Why is that so hard?

(01-27-2015 02:57 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 01:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 06:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

You know, your post reeks of an incredible irony. You state that "98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots". How is that different from your blind hatred of the Patriots??

Your second paragraph is a case in point. The issue I raised about the PSI is not "pro-Patriots speculation." It is simply a possibility. That's what investigators do. They look at the range of possibilities and begin narrowing them down based on the evidence that is uncovered. Whether you like it or not, what I stated above IS a possibility. I am not saying that's what happened. I am saying that it is a possibility that needs to be evaluated along with all of the other possibilities. What you are saying seems to be: "I hate the Patriots. I hate BB. We don't need no stinking investigation. We don't need to look at all the facts and possibilities. Let's just hang them and get it over with 'cause we hate those SOBs so much. They always beat our teams."

Oh, and BTW, since Spygate (which, if you believe that the Patriots were the only ones doing that, I've got a bridge to sell you), what other instances have occurred where the Patriots were found to be cheating???

The ultimate irony - you appear to be no different than the Pats fans you despise. Just the other side of the coin, that's all.

WTF? The Ultimate Irony is your trying to throw my "hatred" of the Patriots back in my face, when it was YOU that raised the issue of bias. In the post I previously replied to, YOU claimed that you don't "blindly" support the Patriots, but rather are unbiased and dispassionate, but that *my* post was "driven by my hatred of BB and the Patriots".

So it was entirely appropriate for me to note that generally speaking, PATRIOTS FANS are slavishly devoted to the Patriots, will BLINDLY defend the Patriots no matter what (remember all the idiotic Patriot fan defenses for Spygate?), and that they REEK of PRO-PATRIOTS bias. I even did you the courtesy of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and excepting you from that broad brush, EVEN THOUGH, your completely LAME list of "possible reasons" that BB and the Patriots aren't guilty are EXTREMELY FAR-FETCHED and thus show STRONG evidence of a HUGE CASE of BLINDLY SUPPORTING THE PATRIOTS.

And yet you have the gall to make the utterly BANAL remark that MY post is evidence of Patriots hate?

And why do i call your explanations LAME? Here's why: You lean on the "possibility" that the Colts balls were at 13.5 and the Patriots at 12.5 or somesuch. You say "like it or not, that is possible" as if that means much?

It's ALSO a "possibility" that the Angel of Death came up from Hell and deflated the Patriots balls while nobody was looking.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that an ISIS operative did so.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that Bill Clinton hired the Duke of Kent to send a British agent over to the Patriots locker room to deflate the balls.

Before you dismiss those, remember, YOU CLAIMED that one thing we need to investigate is whether SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PATRIOTS had access to the Patriots footballs! (HILARIOUS!).

But by your standard (stated above) we gotta wait until ALL those possibilities are exhausted before we condemn the Patriots?

Be honest Pal: What's more likely, that the Patriots deflated the balls, or that the balls JUST HAPPENED to be initially pumped to a level where, when exposed to the atmosphere, ELEVEN of the Patriots balls became under-inflated, but ZERO of the Colts balls were?

Stop clowning, stop hiding behind RIDICULOUS possibilities. Sack up and ADMIT you are a CRAVEN, DESPERATE for a 4th ring PATRIOTS LOVER.

PS - I just noticed that you invoked the "everyone else was doing it!" defense for Spygate! Patriots HACK ...

Ya know, you can always tell when someone is arguing based purely on emotion and not on facts and intelligence when they capitalize one word after another and use words like CRAVEN and DESPERATE to describe a situation where hard facts as to who, how and why, have yet to surface.

Ya know, you can always tell when someone is a BIASED PATRIOTS FAN slavishly covering for the CHEATING PATRIOTS when they focus on CAPITAL LETTERS rather than the substance of what was said. Probably because your utterly banal hypocrisy about who is "biased" was called out and raked over the coals, as was your lame-o "alternative possibilities" for Patriots cheating.

The "hard facts" have already surfaced: The Patriots were caught using bogus footballs. It is therefore the burden of the Patriots to explain why they shouldn't be punished for doing so. It isn't the burden of others to explain the how, why, where, and whatnot before punishing the Patriots for cheating. We don't need to know HOW the Patriots cheated, we already know they did, unless the Patriots can prove otherwise.

Beyond that, as I explained, your "explanations" are completely lame and far-fetched. The odds that the Colts and Patriots both had balls that were really legit at kickoff, but that atmospheric conditions caused 11 of 12 Patriots balls to fail the test at halftime, but ZERO Colts balls to do so, is far-fetched, and not worth bothering over. It's like your speculation that somebody from ISIS or whatnot got a hold of the balls and changed them.

No, the overwhelmingly likely explanation is that the Patriots deflated the balls to gain an advantage. Unless evidence emerges to the contrary, that's the only reasonable (i.e., not Patriots-fanboy-biased) thing to believe.

(01-27-2015 04:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 02:57 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-27-2015 01:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 06:50 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 05:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

You know, your post reeks of an incredible irony. You state that "98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots". How is that different from your blind hatred of the Patriots??

Your second paragraph is a case in point. The issue I raised about the PSI is not "pro-Patriots speculation." It is simply a possibility. That's what investigators do. They look at the range of possibilities and begin narrowing them down based on the evidence that is uncovered. Whether you like it or not, what I stated above IS a possibility. I am not saying that's what happened. I am saying that it is a possibility that needs to be evaluated along with all of the other possibilities. What you are saying seems to be: "I hate the Patriots. I hate BB. We don't need no stinking investigation. We don't need to look at all the facts and possibilities. Let's just hang them and get it over with 'cause we hate those SOBs so much. They always beat our teams."

Oh, and BTW, since Spygate (which, if you believe that the Patriots were the only ones doing that, I've got a bridge to sell you), what other instances have occurred where the Patriots were found to be cheating???

The ultimate irony - you appear to be no different than the Pats fans you despise. Just the other side of the coin, that's all.

WTF? The Ultimate Irony is your trying to throw my "hatred" of the Patriots back in my face, when it was YOU that raised the issue of bias. In the post I previously replied to, YOU claimed that you don't "blindly" support the Patriots, but rather are unbiased and dispassionate, but that *my* post was "driven by my hatred of BB and the Patriots".

So it was entirely appropriate for me to note that generally speaking, PATRIOTS FANS are slavishly devoted to the Patriots, will BLINDLY defend the Patriots no matter what (remember all the idiotic Patriot fan defenses for Spygate?), and that they REEK of PRO-PATRIOTS bias. I even did you the courtesy of giving you the benefit of the doubt, and excepting you from that broad brush, EVEN THOUGH, your completely LAME list of "possible reasons" that BB and the Patriots aren't guilty are EXTREMELY FAR-FETCHED and thus show STRONG evidence of a HUGE CASE of BLINDLY SUPPORTING THE PATRIOTS.

And yet you have the gall to make the utterly BANAL remark that MY post is evidence of Patriots hate?

And why do i call your explanations LAME? Here's why: You lean on the "possibility" that the Colts balls were at 13.5 and the Patriots at 12.5 or somesuch. You say "like it or not, that is possible" as if that means much?

It's ALSO a "possibility" that the Angel of Death came up from Hell and deflated the Patriots balls while nobody was looking.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that an ISIS operative did so.

It's ALSO a "possibility" that Bill Clinton hired the Duke of Kent to send a British agent over to the Patriots locker room to deflate the balls.

Before you dismiss those, remember, YOU CLAIMED that one thing we need to investigate is whether SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE PATRIOTS had access to the Patriots footballs! (HILARIOUS!).

But by your standard (stated above) we gotta wait until ALL those possibilities are exhausted before we condemn the Patriots?

Be honest Pal: What's more likely, that the Patriots deflated the balls, or that the balls JUST HAPPENED to be initially pumped to a level where, when exposed to the atmosphere, ELEVEN of the Patriots balls became under-inflated, but ZERO of the Colts balls were?

Stop clowning, stop hiding behind RIDICULOUS possibilities. Sack up and ADMIT you are a CRAVEN, DESPERATE for a 4th ring PATRIOTS LOVER.

PS - I just noticed that you invoked the "everyone else was doing it!" defense for Spygate! Patriots HACK ...

Ya know, you can always tell when someone is arguing based purely on emotion and not on facts and intelligence when they capitalize one word after another and use words like CRAVEN and DESPERATE to describe a situation where hard facts as to who, how and why, have yet to surface.

Ya know, you can always tell when someone is a BIASED PATRIOTS FAN slavishly covering for the CHEATING PATRIOTS when they focus on CAPITAL LETTERS rather than the substance of what was said. Probably because your utterly banal hypocrisy about who is "biased" was called out and raked over the coals, as was your lame-o "alternative possibilities" for Patriots cheating.

The "hard facts" have already surfaced: The Patriots were caught using bogus footballs. It is therefore the burden of the Patriots to explain why they shouldn't be punished for doing so. It isn't the burden of others to explain the how, why, where, and whatnot before punishing the Patriots for cheating. We don't need to know HOW the Patriots cheated, we already know they did, unless the Patriots can prove otherwise.

Beyond that, as I explained, your "explanations" are completely lame and far-fetched. The odds that the Colts and Patriots both had balls that were really legit at kickoff, but that atmospheric conditions caused 11 of 12 Patriots balls to fail the test at halftime, but ZERO Colts balls to do so, is far-fetched, and not worth bothering over. It's like your speculation that somebody from ISIS or whatnot got a hold of the balls and changed them.

No, the overwhelmingly likely explanation is that the Patriots deflated the balls to gain an advantage. Unless evidence emerges to the contrary, that's the only reasonable (i.e., not Patriots-fanboy-biased) thing to believe.

I am slack jawed at your response. The burden of proof falls on the accused to prove their innocence? Really? That may be true in places like North Korea or Iran, but not here. The burden of proof is always on those making the accusations.

The fact is that we have yet to hear any of the details of the investigation. Yes, 11 of the 12 Pats footballs were found to be below specs at halftime. The question is how they got that way. Could someone in the Patriots organization deflated them? Yes. The Patriots have denied it in the strongest of terms. Are they telling the truth? That's what the investigation will determine.

You state as fact that the Colts footballs were OK at halftime? Were they within specs because they were originally inflated to a higher end of the range so even if they lost PSI, they would still be above specs? Were the Colts footballs even measured at halftime? None of this has been formally disclosed. Whether you want to believe it or not, these are important considerations. I am not saying that this is what transpired, I am only saying these are plausible considerations that need to be investigated.

Again, why are you afraid of an honest investigation?? If the investigation proves they did it and have lied, there will be plenty of time to punish them. Methinks, though, that what you really are afraid of is that they will not be able to prove the accusation. No sir, just move right on to the hanging. After all, they are the Pats and you hate those SOBs, right?

Good lord, you really are the embodiment of Madame Defarge, aren't you? "J'accuse! J'accuse!"

The balls aren't the only thing that has been deflated. The level of discourse has fallen quite a bit as well.