(12-02-2014 09:55 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  Constructive criticism is only effective when the person on the receiving end is open to changing what they're doing and actually considering what you have to say.

But since we are all jerking around here - pastner's teams have always lacked fundamentals. Excuses were made about players. We knew he was inexperienced when he was hired. People hoped that he would grow into the role. He didn't. Not only did he not, he strangely seems to have ignored the glaring weaknesses in his teams and did not do things that would make them better (hiring an X's and O's assistant). I do not know pastner personally but having watched teams for 6 years with the same lack of identity and fundamentals I have a theory that he is either very stubborn, very insecure, or both.

He may yet turn into a great coach and he has many great qualities that may make him a great coach given the right time and place (maybe even here, who knows).

I for one am tired of watching teams with a lack of basic fundamentals and no heart. Yes this team is young but the issues I see are issues I have seen consistently in pastners teams.

Again - Don't want him fired, I want him to produce.

This. All of this.

1) Guard play

2) Not enough crowd support

(12-02-2014 10:03 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 09:55 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  Constructive criticism is only effective when the person on the receiving end is open to changing what they're doing and actually considering what you have to say.

But since we are all jerking around here - pastner's teams have always lacked fundamentals. Excuses were made about players. We knew he was inexperienced when he was hired. People hoped that he would grow into the role. He didn't. Not only did he not, he strangely seems to have ignored the glaring weaknesses in his teams and did not do things that would make them better (hiring an X's and O's assistant). I do not know pastner personally but having watched teams for 6 years with the same lack of identity and fundamentals I have a theory that he is either very stubborn, very insecure, or both.

He may yet turn into a great coach and he has many great qualities that may make him a great coach given the right time and place (maybe even here, who knows).

I for one am tired of watching teams with a lack of basic fundamentals and no heart. Yes this team is young but the issues I see are issues I have seen consistently in pastners teams.

Again - Don't want him fired, I want him to produce.

Here's the real deal: This is the job Pastner needs to be fired from so he can look inward and address his deficiencies. He was thrust into a leadership role he wasn't ready for. He needs to discover an identity and learn how to impart that to his players. In 20 years he'll be saying how hard it was to be let go from here but how it made him so much of a better coach in the end.

You may very well be right. People can be the nicest in the world but you never really know what's going on between their ears. I quietly and consistently questioned the lack of fundamentals and odd assistant and strength coach hires but things like the "see I'm the coach" quote from pastner in a post game after a win really made me wonder what is going on with the guy. Maybe too much pressure?

Again, before the "cult of pastner" jumps on me - I want his success and would love for it to be at Memphis but the lack of fundamentals in his teams has been glaring for several years.

(And no I did not go because I'm out of town on business but made sure butts were in my seats)

He's a gimmick. The luke walton hire early on told you where his head was at.

But he carried a flip phone for all that time and he just got a Snapchat.

(12-02-2014 11:22 PM)Malachi Wrote:  He's a gimmick. The luke walton hire early on told you where his head was at.

Those are issues, too.

First he was going to be the HC and the 3rd assistant. Then he got Walton. Then the Frank hire.

You had the corny "dap" nonsense. The "energy bus" and other gimmicky motivational book excerpts. The ridiculous "good player, well coached" responses. The "winning is hard" "everyone is good" "CUSA is the best conference."

All of this before we even begin to dissect his strategy, schemes or in game work.

Oh, and then to deal with player relations/retention etc.

(12-02-2014 09:43 PM)mapdude Wrote:  

1. 1. learn how to dribble the ball
2. 2. learn how to pass the ball
3. 3. learn how to block out somebody
   

Ok either JP recruited them or he failed to teach them time to stop blaming the players


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(12-02-2014 11:37 PM)mullinsworld Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 09:43 PM)mapdude Wrote:  

1. 1. learn how to dribble the ball
2. 2. learn how to pass the ball
3. 3. learn how to block out somebody
   

Ok either JP recruited them or he failed to teach them time to stop blaming the players


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No kidding. He recruited these guys to play for him. We didn't hold an open house to fill the roster.

there is talent on this team, you can see it in flashes. If we had 2 more guards in place of our 7 3/4 type players we'd be all right

(12-02-2014 11:32 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 11:22 PM)Malachi Wrote:  He's a gimmick. The luke walton hire early on told you where his head was at.

Those are issues, too.

First he was going to be the HC and the 3rd assistant. Then he got Walton. Then the Frank hire.

You had the corny "dap" nonsense. The "energy bus" and other gimmicky motivational book excerpts. The ridiculous "good player, well coached" responses. The "winning is hard" "everyone is good" "CUSA is the best conference."

All of this before we even begin to dissect his strategy, schemes or in game work.

Oh, and then to deal with player relations/retention etc.

Hard to listen too but proves your point.. and they really cut hard.

(12-02-2014 10:11 PM)EvilLore Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 09:45 PM)80sTiger Wrote:  The away game @ UConn ... I don't wanna even think about that game in that environment with this team.

I'm actually more worried about playing at Cincinnati. Cronin doesn't have the class that guys like Ollie and Larry Brown have, and will do everything humanly possible to embarrass Pastner on national television.

UConn will build a methodical 25 point lead, then yank the starters. Cronin will run it up as much as possible. I'm just thankful the Bearcats are rebuilding too, but they will be decent by the time we play them

I'm glad we don't play Louisville again until next year. We'd never live it down.

(12-02-2014 11:20 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 10:03 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 09:55 PM)tiger2000 Wrote:  Constructive criticism is only effective when the person on the receiving end is open to changing what they're doing and actually considering what you have to say.

But since we are all jerking around here - pastner's teams have always lacked fundamentals. Excuses were made about players. We knew he was inexperienced when he was hired. People hoped that he would grow into the role. He didn't. Not only did he not, he strangely seems to have ignored the glaring weaknesses in his teams and did not do things that would make them better (hiring an X's and O's assistant). I do not know pastner personally but having watched teams for 6 years with the same lack of identity and fundamentals I have a theory that he is either very stubborn, very insecure, or both.

He may yet turn into a great coach and he has many great qualities that may make him a great coach given the right time and place (maybe even here, who knows).

I for one am tired of watching teams with a lack of basic fundamentals and no heart. Yes this team is young but the issues I see are issues I have seen consistently in pastners teams.

Again - Don't want him fired, I want him to produce.

Here's the real deal: This is the job Pastner needs to be fired from so he can look inward and address his deficiencies. He was thrust into a leadership role he wasn't ready for. He needs to discover an identity and learn how to impart that to his players. In 20 years he'll be saying how hard it was to be let go from here but how it made him so much of a better coach in the end.

You may very well be right. People can be the nicest in the world but you never really know what's going on between their ears. I quietly and consistently questioned the lack of fundamentals and odd assistant and strength coach hires but things like the "see I'm the coach" quote from pastner in a post game after a win really made me wonder what is going on with the guy. Maybe too much pressure?

Again, before the "cult of pastner" jumps on me - I want his success and would love for it to be at Memphis but the lack of fundamentals in his teams has been glaring for several years.

(And no I did not go because I'm out of town on business but made sure butts were in my seats)

You are so right but you have to hire slowly (which we didn't do) and fire quickly.


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(12-02-2014 11:40 PM)jgardne Wrote:  there is talent on this team, you can see it in flashes. If we had 2 more guards in place of our 7 3/4 type players we'd be all right

Or maybe, just maybe run some plays that put your players in position to succeed.

Seems we are still relying on our guards to create offense...Honestly Tigercanes might be right with this one...Iverson may be exactly what this team needs...He may be able to turn this thing around on offense at least.

(12-02-2014 11:32 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 11:22 PM)Malachi Wrote:  He's a gimmick. The luke walton hire early on told you where his head was at.

Those are issues, too.

First he was going to be the HC and the 3rd assistant. Then he got Walton. Then the Frank hire.

You had the corny "dap" nonsense. The "energy bus" and other gimmicky motivational book excerpts. The ridiculous "good player, well coached" responses. The "winning is hard" "everyone is good" "CUSA is the best conference."

All of this before we even begin to dissect his strategy, schemes or in game work.

Oh, and then to deal with player relations/retention etc.

There's a fine line between coach speak and total bs and some coaches sell it and some don't. I think pastner's coach speak comes from the business/self-help book world but it sometimes comes across as condescending to the fanbase.

The thing is, I *want* to root for this guy - he visits ailing tiger fans in the hospital and goes to funerals and does good in the community and donates $ back to the university. We need more nice guys and I don't feel like that aspect of his personality is an act.

But man there are some major deficiencies with his teams. Nice guy qualities and leadership qualities are not mutually exclusive.

(12-02-2014 11:48 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 11:40 PM)jgardne Wrote:  there is talent on this team, you can see it in flashes. If we had 2 more guards in place of our 7 3/4 type players we'd be all right

Or maybe, just maybe run some plays that put your players in position to succeed.

Seems we are still relying on our guards to create offense...Honestly Tigercanes might be right with this one...Iverson may be exactly what this team needs...He may be able to turn this thing around on offense at least.

It's not Iverson. We have roughly zero off the ball movement and set screens, literally, every 3rd or 4th possession. Occasionally austin or shaq will go try to post. Our offense is so, so bad. It's really instructive to watch all the off ball action SFA runs versus the 0 action we run. They are constantly curling around screens, diving to the rim, setting back picks etc etc.

We just stand around. There's almost no action. There are few screens and even fewer that actually connect with or alter the defensive strategy

Here's John Martin's take on the game. Some good points.

http://www.espn929.com/johnmartin/Stephe...-/20441094

On Kedren ... "I knew when Pastner took him that he’d not played college basketball for a year and that he’d let himself go a bit, but I had no idea until about two weeks ago that, in that year he was suspended from Vandy, he had not so much as picked up a basketball or worked out. That was stunning to hear."

... the coaching staff must've known their desperation. Had to reach hoping for just something.

(12-02-2014 11:55 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 11:48 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(12-02-2014 11:40 PM)jgardne Wrote:  there is talent on this team, you can see it in flashes. If we had 2 more guards in place of our 7 3/4 type players we'd be all right

Or maybe, just maybe run some plays that put your players in position to succeed.

Seems we are still relying on our guards to create offense...Honestly Tigercanes might be right with this one...Iverson may be exactly what this team needs...He may be able to turn this thing around on offense at least.

It's not Iverson. We have roughly zero off the ball movement and set screens, literally, every 3rd or 4th possession. Occasionally austin or shaq will go try to post. Our offense is so, so bad. It's really instructive to watch all the off ball action SFA runs versus the 0 action we run. They are constantly curling around screens, diving to the rim, setting back picks etc etc.

We just stand around. There's almost no action. There are few screens and even fewer that actually connect with or alter the defensive strategy

I'm going to get railed for saying this by the pastner worshipers, but you are right and what's worse is that this has been consistent (not just this year's team).

I sit in my seats watching zero offensive off the ball movement on given plays and have for years. These little things drive me crazy. How can you have no off the ball movement?!! This is so basic they they teach it to middle schoolers!

The other one is D. Let's throw out the more complex conversations like which d to run, why our bigs are consistently at the top of the key, etc., and talk about things like when to get your hands up. I have consistently watched teams struggle with this type of basic fundamental bball and it blows my mind.

I will say that this year's teams has shown flashes of playing decent defense but those little nagging issues still show up.

(12-03-2014 12:03 AM)80sTiger Wrote:  On Kedren ... "I knew when Pastner took him that he’d not played college basketball for a year and that he’d let himself go a bit, but I had no idea until about two weeks ago that, in that year he was suspended from Vandy, he had not so much as picked up a basketball or worked out. That was stunning to hear."

... the coaching staff must've known their desperation. Had to reach hoping for just something.

You saw that pic at the bottom of the article that "summarized our defense"?