If a State is giving a University funds from the State Budget, could the legislature in that state not deduct funds being given a P5 school equal to the TV revenue a P5 is bringing in and give the deducted funds to other State Universities in that state?

Sure they could do that. But I don't think there is a P5 school that is that politically weak in their state's legislature to allow that to happen.

There isn't really one answer to your question. It would depend on how the state appropriates funds, how governance is set up, how things are organized between schools, etc.

The other is who controls the state. I personally don't care for redistribution of wealth on any scale or matter. The P5 is already paying off the G5, why should they pay more? For example, does ECU really want to share with App St and Charlotte? I think this is a really bad idea, but as a State Rights guy. That is up to the state. In addition, private schools would reap the windfall since they would not have to pay in.

Its possible...just not probable.

Most state flagship/landgrant schools are extremely politically powerful with influence in both the legislature and governor's mansion in most states. So trying to get such legislation passed without their support is problematic at best.

Besides that, most states pride themselves on their top P5 schools and aren't going to hurt them for schools no one else in the country cares about. IOW, the Great State of California is not going to hurt a UC school's chances in the PAC so that a Cal State school can do better in the MWC. The great state of Louisiana is not going to handicap LSU's chances in the SEC to help out LTU's chances in CUSA.

(11-19-2014 09:06 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Its possible...just not probable.

Most state flagship/landgrant schools are extremely politically powerful with influence in both the legislature and governor's mansion in most states. So trying to get such legislation passed without their support is problematic at best.

Besides that, most states pride themselves on their top P5 schools and aren't going to hurt them for schools no one else in the country cares about. IOW, the Great State of California is not going to hurt a UC school's chances in the PAC so that a Cal State school can do better in the MWC. The great state of Louisiana is not going to handicap LSU's chances in the SEC to help out LTU's chances in CUSA.

Or the Alabama BOT is not going to make Tuscaloosa share with UAH and UAB, but they will damn sure make UAH and UAB pay their own way and not let them bond for new facilities.

(11-19-2014 09:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:06 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Its possible...just not probable.

Most state flagship/landgrant schools are extremely politically powerful with influence in both the legislature and governor's mansion in most states. So trying to get such legislation passed without their support is problematic at best.

Besides that, most states pride themselves on their top P5 schools and aren't going to hurt them for schools no one else in the country cares about. IOW, the Great State of California is not going to hurt a UC school's chances in the PAC so that a Cal State school can do better in the MWC. The great state of Louisiana is not going to handicap LSU's chances in the SEC to help out LTU's chances in CUSA.

Or the Alabama BOT is not going to make Tuscaloosa share with UAH and UAB, but they will damn sure make UAH and UAB pay their own way and not let them bond for new facilities.

You bet. But that's the life of a branch campus. You exist to support the system's Flagship, not the other way around. But if that's not desirable, then they need to pursue independence. But that independence comes with a price just as heavy. If you think Bama blocks resources from UAB now, wait till they are the independent University of Birmingham and don't have Bama's political muscle to fight off all the other schools in the state either when funding time comes each year.

(11-19-2014 01:03 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  If a State is giving a University funds from the State Budget, could the legislature in that state not deduct funds being given a P5 school equal to the TV revenue a P5 is bringing in and give the deducted funds to other State Universities in that state?

Yes. California could also name the Yeti the state animal.

Very doubtful.

(11-19-2014 09:51 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:11 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:06 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Its possible...just not probable.

Most state flagship/landgrant schools are extremely politically powerful with influence in both the legislature and governor's mansion in most states. So trying to get such legislation passed without their support is problematic at best.

Besides that, most states pride themselves on their top P5 schools and aren't going to hurt them for schools no one else in the country cares about. IOW, the Great State of California is not going to hurt a UC school's chances in the PAC so that a Cal State school can do better in the MWC. The great state of Louisiana is not going to handicap LSU's chances in the SEC to help out LTU's chances in CUSA.

Or the Alabama BOT is not going to make Tuscaloosa share with UAH and UAB, but they will damn sure make UAH and UAB pay their own way and not let them bond for new facilities.

You bet. But that's the life of a branch campus. You exist to support the system's Flagship, not the other way around. But if that's not desirable, then they need to pursue independence. But that independence comes with a price just as heavy. If you think Bama blocks resources from UAB now, wait till they are the independent University of Birmingham and don't have Bama's political muscle to fight off all the other schools in the state either when funding time comes each year.

This is where I think that the Alabama Board is dead wrong. The board treats UAB as they are a branch campus of Tuscaloosa instead of seperate University that is equal to Tuscaloosa except for not being the state flagship University of the state.
As a citizen of Alabama if feel I can say that UAB is not seen as just a branch campus of Tusacaloosa inside the state by the vast majority of the citizens of the state. The board needs to stop treating UAB as a branch campus which they were many years ago before most of us were born.

But thats not reality. The System Flagship is always above it's branch schools even though technically they are all separate universities in the same system. Now it's possible for a much more equitable existence such as the UC system where sure, UC Riverside will never be the equal of UC-Berkley or UC-Los Angeles but the system still seeks to elevate Riverside to a high level.

But that's all about funding. The UC system, even with its cuts is still receives more money than almost any other public system in the country so they can afford to have multiple campuses of excellence in the same system, particularly since that system is well defined in its mission (research vs teaching) vs the hodgepodge everywhere else where its a vicious fight for funding at every level and making one campus more prestigious means serious loss of funding at others. And trust me, UAB has no qualms about taking as much funding as possible from the mouths of Troy and USA to make itself a better school at their expense.

There is a certain benefit to being one of the first two mouths on the food chain (land grant/flagship). This is just one of them. There is no good justification for making the "preferred son" of the state inferior to its neighboring institutions.

LSU have benefited from being the only "preferred son" of the state for decades. These benefits extend from just being about athletics and also entail student life and quality/quantity of productive majors.

LSU are the school of Louisiana, full stop. Stripping funding from them and putting it in other schools would have catastrophic effects.

Unlikely, but there are ways to steer funds in specific instances. For example, If Arizona or Arizona State wants to schedule a FCS team, NAU (on an every other year basis per school) has the right of first refusal - ie if NAU wants the game then ASU or Arizona has to schedule them. If they don't want to play them then the only way is to not play a FCS school.

Absolutely they could but very unlikely they would.

I imagine it could happen if several smaller schools banded together and could swing enough influence in a particular legislature.

But such a move could backfire as well. In a time when many states are looking at areas to cut spending to make ends meet the legislature could just as well say that instead of the P5 subsidizing the other schools since they can't seem to support themselves that the other schools need to cut back or eliminate their wasteful programs. The old law of unintended consequences and all.

(11-19-2014 11:43 AM)dbackjon Wrote:  Unlikely, but there are ways to steer funds in specific instances. For example, If Arizona or Arizona State wants to schedule a FCS team, NAU (on an every other year basis per school) has the right of first refusal - ie if NAU wants the game then ASU or Arizona has to schedule them. If they don't want to play them then the only way is to not play a FCS school.

The reason why that might happen, but what the OP wants won't happen, should be obvious:

In your suggestion, NAU or another FCS school is getting money that ASU or UA would have paid out to somebody anyway. It's not a net cost to ASU or UA.

In the other suggestion, the non-P5 program would be siphoning money directly out of the account of the P5 program, money that the P5 program would have spent for its own purposes. That's no different than simply requiring higher-revenue programs to take millions out of their own budgets and give the money to lower-revenue programs.

Does the SUNY system already do this on the academic side? I have no idea. It's the only state system I can think of that runs the whole system from a centralized bureaucracy, and they don't seem (to an outsider) to really differentiate between flagships and non-flagships.

(11-19-2014 12:58 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Does the SUNY system already do this on the academic side? I have no idea. It's the only state system I can think of that runs the whole system from a centralized bureaucracy, and they don't seem (to an outsider) to really differentiate between flagships and non-flagships.

Not exactly.

They dont have a single Flagship but do recognize schools like Buffalo, Stony Brook, Binghampton and Albany as "University Centers" which puts them above "University Colleges" like SUNY-Oswego, SUNY-Potsdam, SUNY-Plattsburgh etc

(11-19-2014 09:06 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Its possible...just not probable.

Most state flagship/landgrant schools are extremely politically powerful with influence in both the legislature and governor's mansion in most states. So trying to get such legislation passed without their support is problematic at best.

Besides that, most states pride themselves on their top P5 schools and aren't going to hurt them for schools no one else in the country cares about. IOW, the Great State of California is not going to hurt a UC school's chances in the PAC so that a Cal State school can do better in the MWC. The great state of Louisiana is not going to handicap LSU's chances in the SEC to help out LTU's chances in CUSA.

Ole Huey Long made sure that LSU was well taken care of. Thank God, that crazy man never became president.

(11-19-2014 09:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 01:03 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  If a State is giving a University funds from the State Budget, could the legislature in that state not deduct funds being given a P5 school equal to the TV revenue a P5 is bringing in and give the deducted funds to other State Universities in that state?

Yes. California could also name the Yeti the state animal.

Knowing California, I wouldn't be surprised if they did that.