(10-15-2014 02:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:43 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:26 PM)john01992 Wrote:  sorry but there clearly is an anti illegal immigrants stigma in this country. stigmas give people a way to needlessly blame something on some demographic when it is unwarranted. i think this clearly fits the bill.

Is it really a stretch to understand how illegal aliens would be viewed with scorn? They are breaking our law, that is why they are called "illegal". They deserve no less stigmatization than others engaging in illegal acts. Pedophiles, murderers, con artists, and yes, even illegal aliens earn that scorn and mistrust through their very actions (their children born in the US are another discussion).

So now crossing the border illegally is akin to pedophilia, and murder?

c'mon fit, I never said nor implied that. All are illegal activities worthy of scorn, but degree of stigmatization will vary based on the specific illegal activity.

(10-15-2014 02:11 PM)john01992 Wrote:  it is a talking point that a number of conservative poster on CSN & numerous conservative websites have mentioned. The only problem is that I have yet to find any evidence from a legitimate source to back this claim up. For those who don't know the talking point is basically stating illegal immigrants brought the disease to the United States, specifically the recent wave of children.

No, it isn't racist. It's just dumb and unproven by any scientific fact. It's just a talking point. Why does everything have to be racist?

(10-15-2014 02:52 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:43 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:26 PM)john01992 Wrote:  sorry but there clearly is an anti illegal immigrants stigma in this country. stigmas give people a way to needlessly blame something on some demographic when it is unwarranted. i think this clearly fits the bill.

Is it really a stretch to understand how illegal aliens would be viewed with scorn? They are breaking our law, that is why they are called "illegal". They deserve no less stigmatization than others engaging in illegal acts. Pedophiles, murderers, con artists, and yes, even illegal aliens earn that scorn and mistrust through their very actions (their children born in the US are another discussion).

So now crossing the border illegally is akin to pedophilia, and murder?

c'mon fit, I never said nor implied that. All are illegal activities worthy of scorn, but degree of stigmatization will vary based on the specific illegal activity.

I came away from that post thinking you implied that as well. and TBH you on numerous occasions have stated that I implied things that I clearly never implied in plenty of my posts. so i find your response to fit quite hilarious.

(10-15-2014 02:53 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:11 PM)john01992 Wrote:  it is a talking point that a number of conservative poster on CSN & numerous conservative websites have mentioned. The only problem is that I have yet to find any evidence from a legitimate source to back this claim up. For those who don't know the talking point is basically stating illegal immigrants brought the disease to the United States, specifically the recent wave of children.

No, it isn't racist. It's just dumb and unproven by any scientific fact. It's just a talking point. Why does everything have to be racist?

I don't think everything has to be racist, but I think this is one of the few major talking points that is indeed racist. it's unproven claims being used to slander an entire demographic.

this talking point doesn't just blame illegals, it blames people from latin america in general regardless if they live there or in the US of being associated with a disease that affects/kills children.

ODU's talking point is also incorrect because he fails to think about it in this manner.

(10-15-2014 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:32 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Ah, so johnnyzero ran to this board after he was proven to be wrong on the WWE board.

Got it. This board is a place where he can feel "safe" and never be confronted that he was wrong. Just what the leftists wanted.

I perfectly proved that there is absolutely no connection to illegal immigration.

Except I proved you were wrong.

No you didn't, you haven't even inserted a single talking point explaining how I am wrong.

OK MODS. DO YOUR JOB. johnnyzero just lied about me. Go to the thread and you can see he is completely wrong.

In your specific example, it depends on whether or not data supports the claim
In the macro, it is "good police work" to focus on particular groups or people who you know have committed crimes previously. That may not be fair or certainly not politically popular, but the criminals share some responsibility for this scrutiny

(10-15-2014 02:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:17 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Not racist at all. You could remove race completely and the concern being raised is still valid; unless of course you consider the term illegal immigrant to be inherently racist.
While it may not be accurate, it does raise questions about what infections diseases and medical conditions may have come across the border with that influx of illegal immigrant children. Why does the double standard exist that children born in the US must be vaccinated before attending public schools yet illegal immigrant children do not?

Let's not try to find a racist issue to further divide the country and distract from the real problem.

There is no double standard, we are currently servicing 7 undocumented immigrants and they have all been vaccinated.

Secondly, this is what happens when you make immigration to the United States so difficult.

If we simply quarantined and vaccinated immigrants like we did in the past, things would be a lot safe from an infectious disease standpoint.

So because it is difficult to get into the US, these children from Central America took it upon themselves to cross Mexico and then sneak across the US border? There isn't any other reason behind it other than it is 'so difficult'?

Also, I have found numerous reports stating that the kids would need to be vaccinated, underscoring our own government's concerns about what diseases the children may be carrying. Is it a huge threat? No. Is it racist to question whether or not a disease or contagion is coming into the country with illegal immigrants? Not at all. Wouldn't it be more prudent to be overly cautious now than to have to deal with consequences later?

Quote:Many UAC and family units require treatment for communicable diseases, including respiratory illnesses, tuberculosis, chicken pox, and scabies.

It's on page 3.
Government memo stating illegals will need to be vaccinated

(10-15-2014 03:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:32 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Ah, so johnnyzero ran to this board after he was proven to be wrong on the WWE board.

Got it. This board is a place where he can feel "safe" and never be confronted that he was wrong. Just what the leftists wanted.

I perfectly proved that there is absolutely no connection to illegal immigration.

Except I proved you were wrong.

No you didn't, you haven't even inserted a single talking point explaining how I am wrong.

OK MODS. DO YOUR JOB. johnnyzero just lied about me. Go to the thread and you can see he is completely wrong.

Can't lie if it's true. not one of your posts is anything outside "you are wrong because I say so" or a talking point that is false. in fact look at all the information I showed in the OP, it is the exact same talking points I used in the WWE room. It is pretty clear who is right and who is wrong. (hint it's not you)

I did everything you could possibly do to show there is no connection. you did nothing at all to back up your claim. And yet somehow you are boasting about how "you proved me wrong" which is a flat out lie, and to top it off you then have the balls to say I am lying about all of this. It is this kinda BS which is why i took the conversation over here and you can't seem to get the hint.

To be clear, my initial comments were about what I quoted only, and not the overall thread topic. That is why I quoted it. And I don't require talking points to shape an argument.

(10-15-2014 03:06 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:17 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Not racist at all. You could remove race completely and the concern being raised is still valid; unless of course you consider the term illegal immigrant to be inherently racist.
While it may not be accurate, it does raise questions about what infections diseases and medical conditions may have come across the border with that influx of illegal immigrant children. Why does the double standard exist that children born in the US must be vaccinated before attending public schools yet illegal immigrant children do not?

Let's not try to find a racist issue to further divide the country and distract from the real problem.

There is no double standard, we are currently servicing 7 undocumented immigrants and they have all been vaccinated.

Secondly, this is what happens when you make immigration to the United States so difficult.

If we simply quarantined and vaccinated immigrants like we did in the past, things would be a lot safe from an infectious disease standpoint.

So because it is difficult to get into the US, these children from Central America took it upon themselves to cross Mexico and then sneak across the US border? There isn't any other reason behind it other than it is 'so difficult'?

Also, I have found numerous reports stating that the kids would need to be vaccinated, underscoring our own government's concerns about what diseases the children may be carrying. Is it a huge threat? No. Is it racist to question whether or not a disease or contagion is coming into the country with illegal immigrants? Not at all. Wouldn't it be more prudent to be overly cautious now than to have to deal with consequences later?

Quote:Many UAC and family units require treatment for communicable diseases, including respiratory illnesses, tuberculosis, chicken pox, and scabies.

It's on page 3.
Government memo stating illegals will need to be vaccinated

to be clear I don't think "these children should be vaccinated" is a racist element. that is not a talking point I even wanted to bring into the conversation. my point was about a very specific disease that is all over the news being connected to illegals when it is perfectly evident that that is not the case. there's a big difference between slander (which is what i consider the D68 connection to be) and talking about a very broad, very important issue about vaccination which is pretty common sense.

(10-15-2014 02:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:50 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:26 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:17 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Not racist at all. You could remove race completely and the concern being raised is still valid; unless of course you consider the term illegal immigrant to be inherently racist.
While it may not be accurate, it does raise questions about what infections diseases and medical conditions may have come across the border with that influx of illegal immigrant children. Why does the double standard exist that children born in the US must be vaccinated before attending public schools yet illegal immigrant children do not?

Let's not try to find a racist issue to further divide the country and distract from the real problem.

sorry but there clearly is an anti illegal immigrants stigma in this country. stigmas give people a way to needlessly blame something on some demographic when it is unwarranted. i think this clearly fits the bill.

There should be a negative stigma attached to everything that it illegal.

oh so making made up claims that Mexicans killed someone else child is perfectly okay because anyone illegal is okay to be stigmatized?

sorry but I don't understand how in any circumstance this is okay.

Quote where I said that please.

Also please link any article where this specific claim is made. I'd like to know where you got it from so that I can properly respond. If an article exists stating that, I would ardently disagree with it.

To clarify what I said about a stigma on anything illegal, its the act of illegally immigrating here that should be stigmatized, not the individual. The individual should be processed and returned home as quickly as allowed under current immigration laws. That said, the illegal immigrant has broken a law, therefore they are criminals, therefore they should bear whatever stigma is usually attached to criminals.

(10-15-2014 03:08 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 03:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:42 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I perfectly proved that there is absolutely no connection to illegal immigration.

Except I proved you were wrong.

No you didn't, you haven't even inserted a single talking point explaining how I am wrong.

OK MODS. DO YOUR JOB. johnnyzero just lied about me. Go to the thread and you can see he is completely wrong.

Can't lie if it's true. not one of your posts is anything outside "you are wrong because I say so" or a talking point that is false. in fact look at all the information I showed in the OP, it is the exact same talking points I used in the WWE room. It is pretty clear who is right and who is wrong. (hint it's not you)

Of course it's not me who's wrong.

Now MODS DO YOUR JOB!

Quote:I did everything you could possibly do to show there is no connection. you did nothing at all to back up your claim.

A complete untruth. You're a liar, zero. You've made this board uncivil and unsafe.

Quote:And yet somehow you are boasting about how "you proved me wrong" which is a flat out lie, and to top it off you then have the balls to say I am lying about all of this. It is this kinda BS which is why i took the conversation over here and you can't seem to get the hint.

No, you brought it here to avoid the evidence you deny exists. That's why you're a liar. You just thought I wouldn't follow. But, I've dealt with people like you before, and if you lie, I will call you on it.

(10-15-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:36 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no double standard, we are currently servicing 7 undocumented immigrants and they have all been vaccinated.

Secondly, this is what happens when you make immigration to the United States so difficult.

If we simply quarantined and vaccinated immigrants like we did in the past, things would be a lot safe from an infectious disease standpoint.

Oh. So now that we've been flooded with illegals and they aren't vaccinated like they used to be and the Enterovirus is plaguing us, it's just a coincidence... GOT IT

They are being vaccinated. What I'm saying is that in the old days, that is all they needed to do to gain access legally to the country.

Now, they have to jump through so many hoops, it's easier to simply cross illegally.

If immigrants knew that they only needed to pass a criminal background check and get vaccinated to gain access to the country, we wouldn't have this problem.

Oh, poor, pitiful little things!

(10-15-2014 03:12 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:52 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:50 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:26 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:17 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Not racist at all. You could remove race completely and the concern being raised is still valid; unless of course you consider the term illegal immigrant to be inherently racist.
While it may not be accurate, it does raise questions about what infections diseases and medical conditions may have come across the border with that influx of illegal immigrant children. Why does the double standard exist that children born in the US must be vaccinated before attending public schools yet illegal immigrant children do not?

Let's not try to find a racist issue to further divide the country and distract from the real problem.

sorry but there clearly is an anti illegal immigrants stigma in this country. stigmas give people a way to needlessly blame something on some demographic when it is unwarranted. i think this clearly fits the bill.

There should be a negative stigma attached to everything that it illegal.

oh so making made up claims that Mexicans killed someone else child is perfectly okay because anyone illegal is okay to be stigmatized?

sorry but I don't understand how in any circumstance this is okay.

Quote where I said that please.

Also please link any article where this specific claim is made. I'd like to know where you got it from so that I can properly respond. If an article exists stating that, I would ardently disagree with it.

To clarify what I said about a stigma on anything illegal, its the act of illegally immigrating here that should be stigmatized, not the individual. The individual should be processed and returned home as quickly as allowed under current immigration laws. That said, the illegal immigrant has broken a law, therefore they are criminals, therefore they should bear whatever stigma is usually attached to criminals.

guess what you wanted to say and how interpreted it are different. by saying that because people are illegal immigrants they should be stigmatized, is it hard for one to assume you are endorsing illegals being blamed for something they hard nothing to do with?

The way I see it, blaming an entire demographic for a specifically deadly disease with zero evidence to back it up is a personal stigmatization. how would you feel if someone did that to Caucasian Americans?

(10-15-2014 03:32 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:36 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  There is no double standard, we are currently servicing 7 undocumented immigrants and they have all been vaccinated.

Secondly, this is what happens when you make immigration to the United States so difficult.

If we simply quarantined and vaccinated immigrants like we did in the past, things would be a lot safe from an infectious disease standpoint.

Oh. So now that we've been flooded with illegals and they aren't vaccinated like they used to be and the Enterovirus is plaguing us, it's just a coincidence... GOT IT

They are being vaccinated. What I'm saying is that in the old days, that is all they needed to do to gain access legally to the country.

Now, they have to jump through so many hoops, it's easier to simply cross illegally.

If immigrants knew that they only needed to pass a criminal background check and get vaccinated to gain access to the country, we wouldn't have this problem.

Oh, poor, pitiful little things!

It's not a matter of pitying them or not. It's a matter of whether you want this practice to stop or not.

(10-15-2014 02:45 PM)gdunn Wrote:  I guess I'll say it.

John says there's no connection between the D-68 virus and the illegal immigrants..

Link up John.

The first case was in KC.. He's right.. However, is it foolish to think that illegal immigrants had not made it to KC or anyone from KC had not traveled and possibly not made contact with an illegal immigrant.

It's very rare by even your own post that these clusters happen. Now we have an influx of people coming into the country and an influx of people getting sick.

According to his map nobody has been to MO. Its tough to understand this without the pinpoint accuracy of his map, but an illegal alien could have gone to MO too.

(10-15-2014 02:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:43 PM)ODUsmitty Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:26 PM)john01992 Wrote:  sorry but there clearly is an anti illegal immigrants stigma in this country. stigmas give people a way to needlessly blame something on some demographic when it is unwarranted. i think this clearly fits the bill.

Is it really a stretch to understand how illegal aliens would be viewed with scorn? They are breaking our law, that is why they are called "illegal". They deserve no less stigmatization than others engaging in illegal acts. Pedophiles, murderers, con artists, and yes, even illegal aliens earn that scorn and mistrust through their very actions (their children born in the US are another discussion).

So now crossing the border illegally is akin to pedophilia, and murder?

Yes, all three are illegal. Please use common sense while posting.

(10-15-2014 02:58 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I don't think everything has to be racist, but I think this is one of the few major talking points that is indeed racist. it's unproven claims being used to slander an entire demographic.

this talking point doesn't just blame illegals, it blames people from latin america in general regardless if they live there or in the US of being associated with a disease that affects/kills children.

ODU's talking point is also incorrect because he fails to think about it in this manner.

This situation isn't racist. Hell, we're not even blaming them out of spite or hate, so it's not even remotely racist. They're being blamed because this sickness inflamed as soon as they flooded our border by the thousands and got shipped out to different regions. Only a complete idiot wouldn't link the two together, and only someone the tops the idiot list would consider it racist. So far only you and fit top that list, coincidence?

(10-15-2014 03:41 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:58 PM)john01992 Wrote:  I don't think everything has to be racist, but I think this is one of the few major talking points that is indeed racist. it's unproven claims being used to slander an entire demographic.

this talking point doesn't just blame illegals, it blames people from latin america in general regardless if they live there or in the US of being associated with a disease that affects/kills children.

ODU's talking point is also incorrect because he fails to think about it in this manner.

This situation isn't racist.

zero can't prove his point about racism either. He's broken the AUP for this board. When are the mods going to do something.

(10-15-2014 03:29 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 03:08 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 03:01 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:50 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(10-15-2014 02:48 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Except I proved you were wrong.

No you didn't, you haven't even inserted a single talking point explaining how I am wrong.

OK MODS. DO YOUR JOB. johnnyzero just lied about me. Go to the thread and you can see he is completely wrong.

Can't lie if it's true. not one of your posts is anything outside "you are wrong because I say so" or a talking point that is false. in fact look at all the information I showed in the OP, it is the exact same talking points I used in the WWE room. It is pretty clear who is right and who is wrong. (hint it's not you)

Of course it's not me who's wrong.

Now MODS DO YOUR JOB!

Quote:I did everything you could possibly do to show there is no connection. you did nothing at all to back up your claim.

A complete untruth. You're a liar, zero. You've made this board uncivil and unsafe.

Quote:And yet somehow you are boasting about how "you proved me wrong" which is a flat out lie, and to top it off you then have the balls to say I am lying about all of this. It is this kinda BS which is why i took the conversation over here and you can't seem to get the hint.

No, you brought it here to avoid the evidence you deny exists. That's why you're a liar. You just thought I wouldn't follow. But, I've dealt with people like you before, and if you lie, I will call you on it.

so I finally reread that thread. it looks like you finally provided your first legitimate talking point that is not a "you are wrong because I say so" type comment after I checked out of that conversation. I'd just like to point out that:

1. prior to that post you had made a number of posts arguing I was wrong without any legitimate evidence to back it prior to that post. so i am still correct in that regards.

2. you link isn't very good
-the study cited "small amounts" of D-68. And this study ultimately proves nothing because at the same time it was being conducted we had just seen 3 clusters in the United States. Nothing about the study suggests that this current outbreak can be traced to those results. D 68 has been reported on every continent in the last couple of years. so there unless you have a claim that directly ties D68's presence there to this outbreak you have nothing

-the author that linked the study says time & time again "i have no medical expertise" and on numerous occasions has made factually incorrect claims about D68

-the link is a conservative website

-the journal that published that study isn't exactly one of the best in the scientific community. they were once busted for publishing a study about biblical times.