(10-08-2014 01:05 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(10-08-2014 08:26 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Look, this is not stuff that was reported in the media. If you don't want to believe me, that's fine. You just would be wrong.

Most conference negotiations never take place in the media. Remember Pitt and Syracuse going to the ACC? Or Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G?

Hell, we had LONG negotiations with the Big East in 2010, and again in 2011, as well as negotiations with the B12 in 2010, that never hit the media. But that doesn't mean they didn't happen.

First, every discussion Memphis had with the BE was reported or rumored in the media. Regarding the B12 adding members, discussions, sure, I buy that, there's always discussions. Sometimes involves coaches, sometimes involves ADs, sometimes involves school presidents or others within the hierarchy - an there's always advocacy among the G5 schools that want to improve their lot. A formal meeting by B12 officials to add 2 member schools from 6 specific choices as you stated, that did NOT include UCF, no that didn't happen - at least according to a P5 party that heard consideration of the alternative championship proposal that enables the B12 to play a championship game or name a champion among its current 10 members. The B12 indicated that they preferred not to add members IF the P5 would endorse & push for an NCAA approval of the alternative proposal. There is even some indication or rumor that Texas was ready to reconsider its alternatives outside of the B12 if forced to add members to the current membership.

As I said previously, things can change that tilt the current logic but nothing on the immediate horizon is focused on B12 expansion. The next hurdle is adoption of the alternative proposal, if it doesn't get approval, something might happen but if it's not approved & the B12 looks to add two schools, it's probably to soon to help our improving position.

The 2010 discussion with the potentialremaining teams in the B12, when Texas was threatening to leave for the Pac 10, was NEVER reported in the media. And it occurred, b/c Memphis was involved.

The ensuing 2010 negotiation with the Big East was never reported. That's the one where Wolken made fun of me on the radio, for saying we were negotiating. Only a long time later did anything about that appear in the media.

Our 2011 negotiations with the Big Easy were never reported in the media, either, until we got invited in February of 2012.

And I know the difference between talking and negotiating. Everything I said was true, and happened. Believe what makes you happy. Hopefully, I have explained it well enough for everybody else besides you, who reads this.

(10-08-2014 12:33 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  Crazy hypothetical.
IF we were ever considered for membership of the B12...wouldn't the SEC reconsider its stance on us to keep the B12 [b]out of its recruiting footprint?[/b]
I figure Cinci and Memphis would be attractive to the B12 because both of us give a foothold into another power 5 area.
Cinci is in the B10 market...and Memphis is in the heart of SEC country.
I don't think the SEC would.....but if we are getting our crap together enough to eventually be consider for expansion....you'd think the SEC might think about it too.

no.

the sec did not move at all when we were about to be invited to the SWC

(10-08-2014 02:11 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(10-08-2014 12:33 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  Crazy hypothetical.
IF we were ever considered for membership of the B12...wouldn't the SEC reconsider its stance on us to keep the B12 [b]out of its recruiting footprint?[/b]
I figure Cinci and Memphis would be attractive to the B12 because both of us give a foothold into another power 5 area.
Cinci is in the B10 market...and Memphis is in the heart of SEC country.
I don't think the SEC would.....but if we are getting our crap together enough to eventually be consider for expansion....you'd think the SEC might think about it too.

no.

the sec did not move at all when we were about to be invited to the SWC

That was then...and this is now.
The tv deals that exist now...weren't around then. Recruiting areas have changed for a lot of school since then as well.
IF we ever got invited to the B12...that would give them a foothold into Tennessee, Mississippi, and Arkansas recruiting areas.
I'm sure that the SEC wouldn't like that much.
TV would be another problem for the SEC....as the B12 would be in this market too.
The SEC has forever been the media heavyweight in our area....I don't think they would like the attention that the B12 would be getting here.

Those are the two concerns that the SEC would have....there may be more...I dunno. Just bouncing ideas off the top of my head in 'what-if' scenarios.

Orange blood

(10-07-2014 08:39 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-07-2014 08:12 AM)bluebacker Wrote:  I still think that ole Jackie Sherrill was on the money with his 16 team conference prediction. I cant remember if he said 4 or 5 conferences but I'm hoping the current P5 all eventually expand to 16 institutions because that creates 80 slots. I think Memphis would be one of the 80. The BIG 12 seems like the best fit geographically (chuckle).

I know that's a popular theory, but what is the compelling reason for each conference to get to 16 teams? The whole purpose of realignment is to consolidate the money and power.

I think it's possible that some P5 conferences will expand, but not necessarily to 16. And even then, they would be looking to steal other P5 teams, either from the B12 or the ACC, if possible.

In that case, it would be likely that they would just have 4 conferences instead of 5, with the same teams, similar to what happened to the Big East.

Look at the formation of the BCS in 1996. There were 63 teams + Notre Dame, in 6 conferences designated as AQ. Now, with all the realignment, we have 65 teams + ND, in 5 conferences.

The next iteration most likely would be 64 teams + ND in 4 conferences. There's your 16 team conferences, lol. But the number of conferences shrinks by one again, so the teams remain essentially the same.

The only compelling reason I can come up with for 5-16 team conferences is for the sheer weight of mass of a solid majority of the FBS schools..

(10-08-2014 11:46 AM)Pastnerized Wrote:  Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue".

Now that right there is where Luck and ilk part company with right thinking people.
Memphis would add to viewers in a big way. The 12 would be in middle of SEC with a school that draws more tv viewers when on tv-more than an opposing SEC game.

Surely they know this. So when the "don't/doesn't add value rhetoric starts, all I hear these days is "blah blah blah".

So I understand, you are suggesting that a Memphis-Baylor match up in the Big XII would outdraw a Tennessee-Vanderbilt SEC game in the Memphis TV market? And I don't mean anything by those specific schools, just a possible TV schedule on any given Saturday.

Andy, thank you for your insight. Some of us here still appreciate it.

(10-08-2014 03:34 PM)Matt4Memphis Wrote:  Andy, thank you for your insight. Some of us here still appreciate it.

I second M4M's comment. You seem to truly be connected to the program, Andy, and your info is ALWAYS welcome and informative.

Yes appreciate the info Andy

(10-08-2014 03:23 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  

(10-08-2014 11:46 AM)Pastnerized Wrote:  Luck added that there are no "available teams" -- schools from the non-Power Five leagues -- that would add value to the Big 12's per-school revenue".

Now that right there is where Luck and ilk part company with right thinking people.
Memphis would add to viewers in a big way. The 12 would be in middle of SEC with a school that draws more tv viewers when on tv-more than an opposing SEC game.

Surely they know this. So when the "don't/doesn't add value rhetoric starts, all I hear these days is "blah blah blah".

So I understand, you are suggesting that a Memphis-Baylor match up in the Big XII would outdraw a Tennessee-Vanderbilt SEC game in the Memphis TV market? And I don't mean anything by those specific schools, just a possible TV schedule on any given Saturday.

Absolutely it would.
Tigers are #1 in the market.
It's just that we're the Tigers-with no p5 affiliation.
You couple Tigers with p5 and they will blow away any opposition on tv.

Look, we're in the south.
Who's the big dog here, conference wise? SEC, of course.
BUT, the BIG DOG with viewers is always the Tigers.
Put the Tigers in the Big12 and the Big12 wins the Memphis market.

My sources say ECU is a lock for the acc. They also say big12 and acc after cincy, with big 12 being in the lead. Lewisville pushing hard to get cincy to join acc. Memphis should land in big 12, but big ten wants to plant a flag in sec country, could be us!!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate AAA's reports too, just have different info on the potential selection of Memphis & Cincy while excluding UCF's status. My opinion being supported by multiple media reports, a sample of which are noted in above post as well as 1st hand info from a P5 rep who heard the alternate proposal presentation directly at a president's conference.

Thanks, but your info conflicts with Memphis' direct, formal private interactions with the B12 for several weeks in December and January, maybe into February. None of that stuff is going to be said publicly. The B12 was publicly denying any interest in expansion, even as they were negotiating with us.

When it became obvious that the proposed legislation to determine the CCG process would be approved, negotiations came to a halt, and Bowlsby said publicly that the B12 was happy at 10. That's b/c they never really wanted to expand, and the new legislation gave them an out.

So, no matter when you heard that info, it certainly was the B12's public stance, but absolutely was NOT what was going on privately, for some period of time.

As for UCF, it is possible the B12 considered them previously, before the 6, or 4. I don't know. That just wasn't shared with Memphis officials, and/or didn't wind its way back to me.

But what I described absolutely 100% occurred, with the schools I mentioned.

(10-08-2014 07:52 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  I appreciate AAA's reports too, just have different info on the potential selection of Memphis & Cincy while excluding UCF's status. My opinion being supported by multiple media reports, a sample of which are noted in above post as well as 1st hand info from a P5 rep who heard the alternate proposal presentation directly at a president's conference.

And you always seem to post thoughtful stuff --- don't worry too much that there's a group here always waiting and willing to hump some dude's leg. Good posters - who provide alternate, supported opinions (especially when they're against the grain) should always be supported here.

(10-08-2014 07:51 PM)memphisike Wrote:  My sources say ECU is a lock for the acc. They also say big12 and acc after cincy, with big 12 being in the lead. Lewisville pushing hard to get cincy to join acc. Memphis should land in big 12, but big ten wants to plant a flag in sec country, could be us!!!!!!!!!!

Believe it or not the B10 seems to want Vandy. But with the rep of B10 FB these days they may re-think that with the B10 going after a school with better FB tradition. Given Vandy might be more successful in the B10, they might consider a change if it means more $$$. Most likely just talk or rumor & no one is going anywhere among the P5 schools.

I think with everything being motivated by revenue, if anything, there might be some contraction among the P5 at some point rather than adding schools. If ACC schools find a way around GOR or Texas & a partner leave the B12 for greener pastures, you might see some sort of consolidation between the ACC & B12, setting up an east & west division, adding no schools & maybe even eliminating some weak sisters. It's only logical given the greed & dependence upon the revenues generated by TV & FB that the member schools will continue to search for ways to increase individual revenue shares (& expansion won't provide that). The other alternative might be for P5 conferences to begin to tier the conference revenue split so that the Alabama type programs get a share more in line with their contributions/performance. And if schools like OM & MSU keep winning off the revenues generated by Alabama & the other top revenue generators, this might happen sooner rather than later. Greed & desire to be number 1 are strong motivators & can cause otherwise smart folks to lose a sense of fair play & long term business sense.

(10-08-2014 09:27 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  

(10-08-2014 07:52 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  I appreciate AAA's reports too, just have different info on the potential selection of Memphis & Cincy while excluding UCF's status. My opinion being supported by multiple media reports, a sample of which are noted in above post as well as 1st hand info from a P5 rep who heard the alternate proposal presentation directly at a president's conference.

And you always seem to post thoughtful stuff --- don't worry too much that there's a group here always waiting and willing to hump some dude's leg. Good posters - who provide alternate, supported opinions (especially when they're against the grain) should always be supported here.

Spot on

(10-08-2014 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Thanks, but your info conflicts with Memphis' direct, formal private interactions with the B12 for several weeks in December and January, maybe into February. None of that stuff is going to be said publicly. The B12 was publicly denying any interest in expansion, even as they were negotiating with us.

When it became obvious that the proposed legislation to determine the CCG process would be approved, negotiations came to a halt, and Bowlsby said publicly that the B12 was happy at 10. That's b/c they never really wanted to expand, and the new legislation gave them an out.

So, no matter when you heard that info, it certainly was the B12's public stance, but absolutely was NOT what was going on privately, for some period of time.

As for UCF, it is possible the B12 considered them previously, before the 6, or 4. I don't know. That just wasn't shared with Memphis officials, and/or didn't wind its way back to me.

But what I described absolutely 100% occurred, with the schools I mentioned.

By your own admission you know that the BE "negotiated" with Memphis as early as 2010 (probably even 2004 when Cincy & UL got their bids) but no bids came. I think your info is a case of the B12 telling Memphis what they want to hear along with some exploratory discussions (probably based upon Bowen doing all he can to promote our school). Certainly & without question Memphis hasn't received a bid to the B12. I know too that UCF has had meaningful discussions with the B12 & maybe in those discussions they were the top choice. Neither of us knows that because we weren't a party to the discussions. I'm not connected to UCF, I do have some P5 connections that have told me the B12 NEVER planned to invite any G5 schools & that their focus was the decision regarding the alternate championship proposal in order to keep the B12 at 10 schools. I further believe Texas will reconsider their options outside of the B12 if the B12 were to have to add schools to get equal playoff consideration. I guess even that is in question since the Texas FB program is down. Point is Texas wants to win & they will take unilateral action to give themselves the best opportunity to both win & increase $$$ - and adding schools to the B12 from the G5 pools would initiate that action. So that leaves our school right where we are now.

(10-09-2014 09:26 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(10-08-2014 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Thanks, but your info conflicts with Memphis' direct, formal private interactions with the B12 for several weeks in December and January, maybe into February. None of that stuff is going to be said publicly. The B12 was publicly denying any interest in expansion, even as they were negotiating with us.

When it became obvious that the proposed legislation to determine the CCG process would be approved, negotiations came to a halt, and Bowlsby said publicly that the B12 was happy at 10. That's b/c they never really wanted to expand, and the new legislation gave them an out.

So, no matter when you heard that info, it certainly was the B12's public stance, but absolutely was NOT what was going on privately, for some period of time.

As for UCF, it is possible the B12 considered them previously, before the 6, or 4. I don't know. That just wasn't shared with Memphis officials, and/or didn't wind its way back to me.

But what I described absolutely 100% occurred, with the schools I mentioned.

By your own admission you know that the BE "negotiated" with Memphis as early as 2010 (probably even 2004 when Cincy & UL got their bids) but no bids came. I think your info is a case of the B12 telling Memphis what they want to hear along with some exploratory discussions (probably based upon Bowen doing all he can to promote our school). Certainly & without question Memphis hasn't received a bid to the B12. I know too that UCF has had meaningful discussions with the B12 & maybe in those discussions they were the top choice. Neither of us knows that because we weren't a party to the discussions. I'm not connected to UCF, I do have some P5 connections that have told me the B12 NEVER planned to invite any G5 schools & that their focus was the decision regarding the alternate championship proposal in order to keep the B12 at 10 schools. I further believe Texas will reconsider their options outside of the B12 if the B12 were to have to add schools to get equal playoff consideration. I guess even that is in question since the Texas FB program is down. Point is Texas wants to win & they will take unilateral action to give themselves the best opportunity to both win & increase $$$ - and adding schools to the B12 from the G5 pools would initiate that action. So that leaves our school right where we are now.

Great observation. The long term question is if Texas or Oklahoma are beat by TCU/Baylor for the next coming years, is the Big XII still considered a power conference? You would have two programs that draw 40,000 at the top of their success and two new stadiums playing and recruiting better than two programs who put 80-100K in the stands every week.

I trust AAA in what he says, I have to. I want to . But I can tell you living right here in the heart of the Big XII and figuratively in the shadows of the Big XII office, Memphis is NEVER mentioned on any talk shows or interviews on the subject.

I appreciate the info. I know what your saying AAA as far as what did happen. I just happen to think (not know) that when Porter was running around telling recruits about the Big 12 it wasn't just him or anyone else saying it. So I do believe the talks were real as you were saying.

I just think that at the time Memphis was given a list of need to dos and a time frame to do them in. Which is why I believe we have upped our game more then any other program in the G-5. Im not talking about just the product on the field either.

1. Upgrade facilties
2. Academics
3. Make a bowl

And so on....

A good Memphis program is what the Big 12 NEEDS. UCF, ECU etc.. are not.

Which is why I think Cincy and Memphis are the 2 if they went to 12.

(10-09-2014 09:26 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(10-08-2014 08:25 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Thanks, but your info conflicts with Memphis' direct, formal private interactions with the B12 for several weeks in December and January, maybe into February. None of that stuff is going to be said publicly. The B12 was publicly denying any interest in expansion, even as they were negotiating with us.

When it became obvious that the proposed legislation to determine the CCG process would be approved, negotiations came to a halt, and Bowlsby said publicly that the B12 was happy at 10. That's b/c they never really wanted to expand, and the new legislation gave them an out.

So, no matter when you heard that info, it certainly was the B12's public stance, but absolutely was NOT what was going on privately, for some period of time.

As for UCF, it is possible the B12 considered them previously, before the 6, or 4. I don't know. That just wasn't shared with Memphis officials, and/or didn't wind its way back to me.

But what I described absolutely 100% occurred, with the schools I mentioned.

By your own admission you know that the BE "negotiated" with Memphis as early as 2010 (probably even 2004 when Cincy & UL got their bids) but no bids came. I think your info is a case of the B12 telling Memphis what they want to hear along with some exploratory discussions (probably based upon Bowen doing all he can to promote our school).

Whoa dude, this was well before Bowen. And I think you are confusing the b12 (everyone) with the b12 remnants. The remnants had no reason to play Memphis. The only team that got seriously played by the b12 was Louisville.

Quote: Certainly & without question Memphis hasn't received a bid to the B12. I know too that UCF has had meaningful discussions with the B12 & maybe in those discussions they were the top choice.

There are differences in discussions. At one time the b12 remnants were in survival mode. At other times, it's the entire b12 needing to expand due to losses of teams. The there was the issue with not having enough teams for a ccg. So there were at least four distinct times in the past four years that the b12 had to look into expansion, with two of those panning out.

Right now, there's no pressing reason to expand. But before the ccg rule change a few months ago, the b12 was going to need two more teams.

Quote: Neither of us knows that because we weren't a party to the discussions. I'm not connected to UCF, I do have some P5 connections that have told me the B12 NEVER planned to invite any G5 schools & that their focus was the decision regarding the alternate championship proposal in order to keep the B12 at 10 schools.

Practically everyone on the planet understands that, unless forced, the b12 was going to remain at their current level. And if forced, Texas was going to want a school that would vote with them. But to say that the b12 never planned to expand with G5 schools is ridiculous. That would either be denying the fact that the b12 may have been forced to expand, or b, assumed that they could pull a couple of ACC teams from the fold.

Quote:I further believe Texas will reconsider their options outside of the B12 if the B12 were to have to add schools to get equal playoff consideration. I guess even that is in question since the Texas FB program is down. Point is Texas wants to win & they will take unilateral action to give themselves the best opportunity to both win & increase $$$ - and adding schools to the B12 from the G5 pools would initiate that action. So that leaves our school right where we are now.

Texas has weighed its options, and it's payout structure is best for Texas being in the b12. Even with two g5 teams added. They are going nowhere unless it's good for Texas, and I don't see a move they can make that will seriously do them better than what they have, without giving up voting clout, the Lhn, or cutting revenue elsewhere.