(09-10-2014 12:39 PM)stever20 Wrote:  And yes, I do think the Fiesta/Cotton/Peach would have a huge issue with not getting the Big Ten champ. That rule was put in place for a reason....

Giving the "displaced conference champs" to the Fiesta/Cotton/Peach is a bone thrown to those bowls in exchange for those bowls having to always take the G5 team, whereas the Rose/Sugar/Orange never have to take a G5 team unless the G5 team is one of the playoff four.

(09-10-2014 11:30 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ. So say Oklahoma finishes 3rd and in playoff- and 2nd Big 12 team is 15th- that team is out.

OK so then looking through the rotations as the rankings stand now.

This year has 4 at large spots.
Next year has 3 at large spots. (Could change to 2 if ACC champ isn't in playoff)
The 3rd year has 1 at large spot.

This really affects the Indy's like BYU and to a certain extent Notre Dame.

How do you get 1? Rose, Sugar and Orange are locked up. 4 playoff spots. That still leaves 2 slots.

(09-10-2014 01:22 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:30 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ. So say Oklahoma finishes 3rd and in playoff- and 2nd Big 12 team is 15th- that team is out.

OK so then looking through the rotations as the rankings stand now.

This year has 4 at large spots.
Next year has 3 at large spots. (Could change to 2 if ACC champ isn't in playoff)
The 3rd year has 1 at large spot.

This really affects the Indy's like BYU and to a certain extent Notre Dame.

How do you get 1? Rose, Sugar and Orange are locked up. 4 playoff spots. That still leaves 2 slots.

Cotton is the G5 champs spot, it is not considered an at-large. In theory if the G5 made the playoffs, there could be two spots open in the Cotton Bowl.

(09-10-2014 11:46 AM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Really the year 3 is the year there will be only one open spot.

Fiesta & Peach are playoffs

Sugar SEC vs B12
Rose PAC 12 vs B10
Orange ACC vs B10/SEC/ND (If B10 oppenent, ACC get B10 Capital One Spot)
Peach G5 vs Open Slot

Once again going back to my recurring question, why would the P5 want to expand past 4? Basically, the playoff money is nothing compared to what the bowl payout is.
Rose 40 Mill per team
Sugar 40 Mill per team
ACC receives 27.5 Mill

CFP only pays conferences $6 million per team participating in the semifinals and $4 million per team participating in the other major bowls. Until the bowl system is killed entirely, there is no incentive for ADs and College Presidents to move past four teams. No way it happens before 12 years and unlikely after that.

Yes, but the CFP pays each of the P5 conferences $52 million/year regardless of whether any of their schools are in the playoff. That number would be much higher if their were an 8 school playoff, for instance.

Do you really seeing the increase going to an additional 40 million per P5 plus whatever payoff increase to the G5. To have these games a week apart, requires the games either be played Christmas Eve and Day or the weekend prior which goes up against NFL games. This is all about TV not about what is fair or best. I am still waiting for someone can show me how this can work with TV, NFL and Bowls. In addition, do you make the Quarter's home games for the top 4? Does that revenue stay with the home team? The reason FCS works is there are no bowls and basically there are home games until the championship. Until Bowls are killed, there is no reason to increase playoff teams.

(09-10-2014 12:35 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  [quote='stever20' pid='11099870' dateline='1410370051']


S20, only reason I say this was part of one of the examples they were showing in their presentations. They actually showed moving an ACC team to an access bowl from the Orange to avoid a rematch from the previous year bowl. They also have been pretty adamant about about keep teams closer to their region if at all possible and having flexibility. We probably truly will not know until the committee finally meets and does the parings. I would be shocked they would be against it if the bowls had no issue and came to them first.

Out of curiosity, who's presentations? Even if it was higher up, my guess is it was earlier or without fully understanding the new system (wouldn't be the first time I've seen publications with people clearly not fully understanding the system they are talking about)

Don't get me wrong. Theoretically the ACC and Orange Bowl could agree to move the champ to another bowl, but that the committee would have no power to push that and I don't know how you get that many separate parties to agree.

Now, the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame in the Orange is another matter. The Orange is trying to take the highest of them, but it is also trying to balance that with a goal of 3 from each of the Big Ten/SEC and 2 from Notre Dame (although those 2 aren't required), and trying to avoid rematches (which is especially possible with Notre Dame). I could see that bowl having to go past the top eligible team several years for the 2nd team.

(09-10-2014 09:56 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:35 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  [quote='stever20' pid='11099870' dateline='1410370051']


S20, only reason I say this was part of one of the examples they were showing in their presentations. They actually showed moving an ACC team to an access bowl from the Orange to avoid a rematch from the previous year bowl. They also have been pretty adamant about about keep teams closer to their region if at all possible and having flexibility. We probably truly will not know until the committee finally meets and does the parings. I would be shocked they would be against it if the bowls had no issue and came to them first.

Out of curiosity, who's presentations? Even if it was higher up, my guess is it was earlier or without fully understanding the new system (wouldn't be the first time I've seen publications with people clearly not fully understanding the system they are talking about)

Don't get me wrong. Theoretically the ACC and Orange Bowl could agree to move the champ to another bowl, but that the committee would have no power to push that and I don't know how you get that many separate parties to agree.

Now, the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame in the Orange is another matter. The Orange is trying to take the highest of them, but it is also trying to balance that with a goal of 3 from each of the Big Ten/SEC and 2 from Notre Dame (although those 2 aren't required), and trying to avoid rematches (which is especially possible with Notre Dame). I could see that bowl having to go past the top eligible team several years for the 2nd team.

i don't think the orange has a choice- the highest team non champ SEC/Big 10/ND team goes. so if like this year SEC team is #5- they are the one going, even if Notre Dame is #8.

(09-10-2014 10:41 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 09:56 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 12:35 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  [quote='stever20' pid='11099870' dateline='1410370051']


S20, only reason I say this was part of one of the examples they were showing in their presentations. They actually showed moving an ACC team to an access bowl from the Orange to avoid a rematch from the previous year bowl. They also have been pretty adamant about about keep teams closer to their region if at all possible and having flexibility. We probably truly will not know until the committee finally meets and does the parings. I would be shocked they would be against it if the bowls had no issue and came to them first.

Out of curiosity, who's presentations? Even if it was higher up, my guess is it was earlier or without fully understanding the new system (wouldn't be the first time I've seen publications with people clearly not fully understanding the system they are talking about)

Don't get me wrong. Theoretically the ACC and Orange Bowl could agree to move the champ to another bowl, but that the committee would have no power to push that and I don't know how you get that many separate parties to agree.

Now, the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame in the Orange is another matter. The Orange is trying to take the highest of them, but it is also trying to balance that with a goal of 3 from each of the Big Ten/SEC and 2 from Notre Dame (although those 2 aren't required), and trying to avoid rematches (which is especially possible with Notre Dame). I could see that bowl having to go past the top eligible team several years for the 2nd team.

i don't think the orange has a choice- the highest team non champ SEC/Big 10/ND team goes. so if like this year SEC team is #5- they are the one going, even if Notre Dame is #8.

I think this year that is the case, but the contract with the Orange Bowl does state that both the Big Ten and SEC are guaranteed a minimum of 3 games which means there is at least some leeway. I think I heard one article call taking the highest ranked among those as the guiding principle, which I'm guessing is probably a good description. The bowl probably has to take the highest unless one of a few things dictate otherwise (rematch or minimum number of games becoming an issue).

Two things about "expanding the playoff"...

1. If the playoff gets bigger, there is a PERCEPTION that the regular season will lose some value. Michigan State's loss last weekend on the road against another top 10 team? That has already been interpreted as destroying their chance of getting in a playoff of 4 (which it may or may not, depending on what happens around the country [see 2007 for a scenario]). If there is an 8-team playoff, that Oregon/MSU game really means nothing. The Big Ten and Pac-12 championship mean everything (assuming the Big Ten and Pac-12 get an auto-spot for their champs in the 8-team playoff).

2. It's not every year that each conference boasts of a worthy champion. Only the SEC can claim that its champ was "deserving" in each of the last five years. The Pac-12 and Big 12 can probably boast 4 legit champs. The Big Ten probably had 2. The ACC...just 1. This hubbabaloo about someone being left out really would have only happened in 2013...because 2009-2012 saw no "deserving champ" excluded. Will it happen in the next 6 year cycle? Probably...but it's not as "real" of a fear/danger of the new playoff as everyone imagines.

Oh, and I should add...things get murkier when a conference has two worthy teams...but how often THAT happens is even debatable.

2011 SEC
2008 Big 12

(09-10-2014 11:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:36 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-10-2014 11:13 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  The Orange Bowl contract with the Big Ten/SEC/Notre Dame only cover the 8 games in the 12 year span that it is not a playoff bowl.

Further, the only teams actually guaranteed anything from loosing the bowl spot are the conference champs themselves. If the Orange is hosting a semi-final for instance and Florida State is ranked #4, ACC champs, and in a playoff bowl, then the 2nd best ACC team is not guaranteed a spot in a CFP bowl.

exactly. So this year- the only teams guaranteed anything are-
Big Ten Champ, Big 12 Champ, Pac 12 champ, and SEC champ.

The champions of the P5 conferences are always guaranteed a spot in either a Playoff Bowl, a Contract Bowl, or an Access Bowl, in that order.

Not totally true. Say Mich St wins the Big Ten, but doesn't make the playoff. They are not eligible for the Contract Orange Bowl. They would have to go to an access bowl.

This doesn't contradict what I said at all, in fact it says the same thing.