(08-15-2014 11:00 AM)Pastnerized Wrote:  Will never go away. The same posters will latch onto something else re CJP.
They are the leeches of the board; the parasites.
And that's not calling names. It's just simply what they are in terms of "board life".
No rational or logical discussion re CJP's performance can take place here because of them.
It is what it is.
They are what they are.

Nah, I don't really believe that.

Many folks (myself included) were just about fed up with Calipari at the end of the 2004-05 season. In five year's time, we had exactly ONE NCAA tournament victory. Then, to make matters worse, the Sean Bank's fiasco destroyed what was supposed to be a break-through season with DWash. We missed the tournament yet again. Cal always joked about the "for sale" signs in his yard, but it wasn't funny anymore. Fans sincerely wanted him gone. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

The very next season, the Laurinburg 4 arrived, and we marched to the Elite Eight. Opinion's radically changed. We were genuinely excited about the future under Calipari.

Same will happen with Josh.

(08-15-2014 12:11 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

Then we hear "Dom wants a fresh start" from Pastner one minute, but the next we hear that the plan is to keep him close and bring him back next season. Either someone (not necessarily Pastner) is being disingenuous or someone (not necessarily Pastner) doesn't have a handle on what's going on.

Someone who spent 20 mins in Vegas calling advisers and coaches to track down his player to find out why this player skipped one session knows what is going on.

CJP is parenting/mentoring/coaching Dom. He's in deep with that kid. CJP has said that many many times in public. One of the reasons CJP is doing this has been stated here..albeit in passing.

Maybe Coach was just paving the way for a transfer. Maybe he was letting Dom know publicly how much he stands behind him and all his players. Why worry.

The one thing no one is going to do is give out all the info on this situation. Even GP. You can interpret it any way you want, however.

(08-15-2014 12:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

Your logic is flawed. You are basing it on what you would do and not what a coach, who knows more about the situation and is planning ahead, would do.

Any person with a sense of PR acumen would do the same.

(08-15-2014 12:20 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:13 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 11:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?

I'm curious if you have one. I understand criticism of Pastner on certain fronts (big wins in March being the main one), but roster management seems to be something he does fairly well and we don't seem to have major disciplinary problems under JP. Add that to the graduation rates and it strikes me that this is a strength.

I also get the OP's point on the transfer being a common place occurrence now and we seem to be hit as often as any other high level team.

I'd welcome a rational counter argument, legitimately curious. Feel free to PM me if you feel that is a better course.

There's two different kinds of transfers: someone buried on the bench who is not expected to contribute in the near future, like Damien Wilson, Jeff Robinson, Antonio Barton, etc. Then there is the player who is expected to be a heavy contributor to your team that 'mysteriously' decides to transfer leaving your team in the lurch. Tarik Black, Dom Woodson fall into this category. These types of transfers hurt us, no question, and there seems to be a lot with Pastner. A part of leadership is motivating these guys to WANT to be here and to play for you. Pastner is still a work in progress in that regard.

I grant Black, a starter at some point every year he was here, being a major loss. But again, sometimes a guy just wants to change places.

While Dom is ready to perhaps contribute, he got extremely limited minutes last year and we are deep at forward (AH, Shaq, Godfrey, King). While another big man is always nice, I can't get on board with Dom being the guy that will make or break our season. Spot contributor, sure, but likely not the fulcrum success is placed on.

I can't say it happens a lot with Pastner. Five years, we lost Black. I can't really count not retaining Jelan (couldn't stick at Ole Miss either), Taggart (Cal recruit, left to play for $), or Garcia (didn't he leave for a pro contract, cash talks).

So if we strike these three (under logic that seems to make sense to me), we lost one key contributor who projected as a third big behind Shaq/Nichols (Black).

1 rotation player in 5 years doesn't strike me as a major issue outside of what other teams see.

Again, reasonable minds can differ here, especially if you think Dom was ready for a far larger role. But again, this is one criticism I don't necessarily agree with. Especially in the context of transfers brought in to replace the players lost (Pellom might have been a better fit to role than Black, Dixon was very good last year).

Pastner has lots of improvement to make in some regards, but this part of his coaching seems above average to good to me.

(08-15-2014 12:25 PM)Malachi Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

Your logic is flawed. You are basing it on what you would do and not what a coach, who knows more about the situation and is planning ahead, would do.

Any person with a sense of PR acumen would do the same.

Funny you should mention PR. I have some real time experience there. The first rule is, do not base your actions on how the most reactionary level of folks thinks or responds.

This contingent of folks is going to react unfavorably to anything 99% of the time. That is what they do on a consistent basis.

CJP does not have spin docs, however..except for the Memphis media. We of the message boards are a very minute percentage of fans.

Go Tigers. Kick Canadian Butt.

We're deep at the post, but we're not deep at the 5 9or whatever you want to call it in college these days). Austin and Shaq can play the opposing 5 man* on D, but they were out muscled last season and I doubt this season would be much different. Dom was the only one of the roster that had the potential stay with a big opposing post man.

Don't forget Roburt Sallie, plus there were times when Joe was contemplating transfer, the Pookie drama. Pierre calls it quits in the middle of a season (take that for what you will). People may downplay these but the fact remains that if we were winning big Pastner wouldn't get flack for this.

But we're not, we're winning "average to good" with "great" talent so people will question stuff like this until he breaks through.

Aspects of his coaching are good, and I've noticed certain aspects getting better. His player management and motivation has improved, but it's got a long way to go.

(08-15-2014 12:02 PM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 11:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?

Spin Doctor #1

Are you coming down from Huntsville for the candlelight vigil tonight ?

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

(08-15-2014 12:44 PM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:02 PM)Ramen_Tiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 11:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?

Spin Doctor #1

Are you coming down from Huntsville for the candlelight vigil tonight ?

How do you come down from Huntsville? --just wonderin where you wind up if you do.

(08-15-2014 12:37 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  We're deep at the post, but we're not deep at the 5 9or whatever you want to call it in college these days). Austin and Shaq can play the opposing 5 man* on D, but they were out muscled last season and I doubt this season would be much different. Dom was the only one of the roster that had the potential stay with a big opposing post man.

Don't forget Roburt Sallie, plus there were times when Joe was contemplating transfer, the Pookie drama. Pierre calls it quits in the middle of a season (take that for what you will). People may downplay these but the fact remains that if we were winning big Pastner wouldn't get flack for this.

But we're not, we're winning "average to good" with "great" talent so people will question stuff like this until he breaks through.

Aspects of his coaching are good, and I've noticed certain aspects getting better. His player management and motivation has improved, but it's got a long way to go.

PASTNER
Woodson
Wilson
Spoon
Black
Barton
Carmouche
Garcia
Niles
Barham

CAL
Robinson
Simpkins
Allen
Bailey
Hunt
Cooper
Willis
Wade
Njoya
Banks
Barclay
Beavers
Richmond
Lopez
Grice
Trask
Moody
Scooter

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

It does? Dom just didn't think positively enough in a 24 hour period to save himself from being asked to leave the team?

(08-15-2014 12:25 PM)Malachi Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

Your logic is flawed. You are basing it on what you would do and not what a coach, who knows more about the situation and is planning ahead, would do.

Any person with a sense of PR acumen would do the same.

It would be more fair if all of you posted once.

(08-15-2014 12:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

It does? Dom just didn't think positively enough in a 24 hour period to save himself from being asked to leave the team?

Where are you getting that logic? Your rear end?

(08-15-2014 12:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

It does? Dom just didn't think positively enough in a 24 hour period to save himself from being asked to leave the team?

Hard to take you seriously when you make these kinds of posts.

(08-15-2014 12:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

It does? Dom just didn't think positively enough in a 24 hour period to save himself from being asked to leave the team?

How do you figure CJP asked him to leave the team? That was never said anywhere.

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

Agree. Hadn't seen that part.

(08-15-2014 12:50 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:25 PM)Malachi Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

Your logic is flawed. You are basing it on what you would do and not what a coach, who knows more about the situation and is planning ahead, would do.

Any person with a sense of PR acumen would do the same.

It would be more fair if all of you posted once.

What do you mean?

(08-15-2014 12:59 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

It does? Dom just didn't think positively enough in a 24 hour period to save himself from being asked to leave the team?

How do you figure CJP asked him to leave the team? That was never said anywhere.

C'mon now. You think it was Woodson's idea to pull out of school a week before the year started and go play basketball at a Juco? There are no set of facts I can comprehend that would make that reasonable.

(08-15-2014 12:56 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:50 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:45 PM)Tiger Greg Wrote:  

(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote:  You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.

You're leaving out part of the quote. What GP wrote was:
This development is surprising on one hand considering Pastner, just Wednesday, publicly complimented Woodson -- telling a group of reporters that the 6-foot-10 forward is better "talent-wise" than returning starters Austin Nichols and Shaq Goodwin.

"But it's all about his attitude and being able to think positive," Pastner said.

When you add the last sentence back, it makes perfect sense.

It does? Dom just didn't think positively enough in a 24 hour period to save himself from being asked to leave the team?

Hard to take you seriously when you make these kinds of posts.

Ignore me and do everyone a favor then.

OK I'm done (for now lol) hashing out this incident with people who don't know all the facts that were printed.

So once again...I say..

Go Tigers. Have fun in Canada!

Hey, Stammers, we're counting on you and Grant to give us some info.