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+------ Thread: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? (/thread-698536.html)
Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - BigTigerMike - 08-15-2014 02:22 AM
So some player(s) don't feel like they are getting enough playing time on the court and so they want to transfer (Wilson) or are a graduated senior (Black,Barton) that wants to transfer to play more minutes or move on....So freaking what? While I wish it wasn't the case...it happens and it happens a lot at many D1 level schools and isn't anything strange or signs of trouble at the program. Its not drama, its just the nature of college basketball. People were talking about how bad it looked that Pookie was supposedly out the door ready to transfer over a minor dispute with the coaching staff when people around here failed to remember that Donnell Mack was virtually gone having really transfered I believe, before he changed his mind and begged Coach Cal that he made a mistake and wanted to come back
And speaking of the previous coaching tenure, what has transpired here over the last 5 years is child's play drama compared to the real drama of yesteryears of high profile domestic violence issues, weed control, losing eligibility, late night clubbing issues and more.
I wish that everything surrounding our current bb program could be quiet and straightforward but the nature of the beast unfortunately in sports (societal issues?) points out that it isn't like that in real life even in many mid to high level programs. Just to name a few, North Carolina had the high profile drama issues dealing with PJ Hairston and Leslie McDonald going for 2 years straight but the most national media attention Memphis got for some player issue was the coach suspending Dom for cursing. Vanderbilt basketball has had players either suspended or kicked off the team for 3 straight years. Michigan State just kicked a player off the team and Louisville with Rick Patino had his own major drama and players being suspended and kicked off the team for many years straight now. We could have a field day talking about college football programs and real drama going on nearky everyday. So why do some insist on implying that things here are worse off than they are? Just because some don't like the coach?
Get over it
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - oldmangrizz - 08-15-2014 03:15 AM
You could have just posted the last sentence and not wasted your energy typing all the other stuff.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Ramen_Tiger - 08-15-2014 03:31 AM
The Spin Doctors will be with you shortly
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Tygrys - 08-15-2014 07:18 AM
I really think it has a lot more to do with lacking faith in JP than it does simply "not liking the coach". Of the 4 guys you specifically mentioned, 3 are hall of fame coaches (Williams, Izzo, and Pitino). Coaches with their track record will typically get the benefit of the doubt, as they have achieved enough to help fans have faith in them when they decide it is better to let a player go than keep him around. Pastner has never made it past the first weekend in the tournament, so he simply has not built the same level of faith among most fans. We seem to have around 2 players a year that decide to transfer or that are forced out. I do not know how that compares to most other programs and I really do not care how it compares. IMO, most of the transfers have been easily explainable, playing time (Wilson and Barton), Black was convinced everyone was holding him back but himself, Kendrick has bounced from program to program, and so on. The Dom situation seems really odd because he appears to be in good academic standing and transferring just down the road. It is a bit perplexing and I think the confusion has added a little extra hysteria in this case.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - TheJesBro - 08-15-2014 08:13 AM
http://winthropintelligence.com/2013/03/04/ncaa-mens-basketball-student-athlete-transfer-trends/
Based on their numbers of D1 transfers: 4106 transfers over 10 years (2002-2013) by 340 teams...
-D1 teams average 1.2 transfers per year
-0.28 average per year going down to non-D1 schools
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Tony85 - 08-15-2014 08:20 AM
It's amazing how ONE sweet16/elite8 run can make All of this go away.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Pastnerized - 08-15-2014 11:00 AM
Will never go away. The same posters will latch onto something else re CJP.
They are the leeches of the board; the parasites.
And that's not calling names. It's just simply what they are in terms of "board life".
No rational or logical discussion re CJP's performance can take place here because of them.
It is what it is.
They are what they are.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Brother Bluto - 08-15-2014 11:04 AM
I'm ready for some Tigah football!!
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - U of M/ND fan - 08-15-2014 11:40 AM
(08-15-2014 08:20 AM)Tony85 Wrote: It's amazing how ONE sweet16/elite8 run can make All of this go away.
This Year?????? Spin it baby.............
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - U of M/ND fan - 08-15-2014 11:41 AM
(08-15-2014 11:04 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote: I'm ready for some Tigah football!!
I'm with you. Move over..............and put the bus in gear..........
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - salukiblue - 08-15-2014 11:59 AM
Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Malachi - 08-15-2014 12:01 PM
You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Ramen_Tiger - 08-15-2014 12:02 PM
(08-15-2014 11:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?
Spin Doctor #1
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - snowtiger - 08-15-2014 12:08 PM
(08-15-2014 11:00 AM)Pastnerized Wrote: Will never go away. The same posters will latch onto something else re CJP.
They are the leeches of the board; the parasites.
And that's not calling names. It's just simply what they are in terms of "board life".
No rational or logical discussion re CJP's performance can take place here because of them.
It is what it is.
They are what they are.
That's true. In an effort to let all opinions be present and accounted for, this board fries sometimes. Then everyone catches fire till the overworked mods are forced to get out the hoses. But there are some really intelligent and fine posters here... who put out small fires all the time--- with facts and/or humor.
It's getting more and more obvious who the real fire-starters are and which agendas they fuel. lol.
So, don't let it get you down for over a split second...ehh.
Go Tigers. Kick Canadian Butt.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - MemphisCanes - 08-15-2014 12:09 PM
(08-15-2014 11:00 AM)Pastnerized Wrote: Will never go away. The same posters will latch onto something else re CJP.
They are the leeches of the board; the parasites.
And that's not calling names. It's just simply what they are in terms of "board life".
No rational or logical discussion re CJP's performance can take place here because of them.
It is what it is.
They are what they are.
It'll go away when and if Pastner shows that his system can win. Right now, we've had a lot of high level talent come through and not a ton of success in March to show for it.
Don't get so defensive when people call a spade a spade. Pick your battles, IMO.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - MemphisCanes - 08-15-2014 12:11 PM
(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote: You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.
Then we hear "Dom wants a fresh start" from Pastner one minute, but the next we hear that the plan is to keep him close and bring him back next season. Either someone (not necessarily Pastner) is being disingenuous or someone (not necessarily Pastner) doesn't have a handle on what's going on.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Sundanceuiuc - 08-15-2014 12:13 PM
(08-15-2014 11:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?
I'm curious if you have one. I understand criticism of Pastner on certain fronts (big wins in March being the main one), but roster management seems to be something he does fairly well and we don't seem to have major disciplinary problems under JP. Add that to the graduation rates and it strikes me that this is a strength.
I also get the OP's point on the transfer being a common place occurrence now and we seem to be hit as often as any other high level team.
I'd welcome a rational counter argument, legitimately curious. Feel free to PM me if you feel that is a better course.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - snowtiger - 08-15-2014 12:13 PM
(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote: You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.
Your logic is flawed. You are basing it on what you would do and not what a coach, who knows more about the situation and is planning ahead, would do.
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - Sundanceuiuc - 08-15-2014 12:20 PM
(08-15-2014 12:11 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:(08-15-2014 12:01 PM)Malachi Wrote: You can't overlook the fact that just a few days earlier the head coach was saying this player was better talent wise than two starters. You just don't make that kind of comment if you know something may transpire. The way this played out gives the impression the coach is out of the loop.
Then we hear "Dom wants a fresh start" from Pastner one minute, but the next we hear that the plan is to keep him close and bring him back next season. Either someone (not necessarily Pastner) is being disingenuous or someone (not necessarily Pastner) doesn't have a handle on what's going on.
When we hear two contradictory stories then many possibilities are possible, including but not limited to:
- Player or coach changed plans after further conversation.
- Family member influence
- University protocol
- Recruiting / other plans for Dom's scholarship.
Also, did Pastner say the plan was to bring Dom back or was that just twitter saying that was the plan and not directly quoting the coach? Might be a disconnect on them.
Having said all this, Wilson and Dom leaving doesn't strike me as major, nor did losing Barton last year. The only big blow seemed to be Tarik Black, but we weathered that fine.
Again, wish Dom and Wilson the very best, but I can't get worked up here. And I can get worked up
RE: Why do some insist on making off the court bb issues bigger than they are? - MemphisCanes - 08-15-2014 12:20 PM
(08-15-2014 12:13 PM)Sundanceuiuc Wrote:(08-15-2014 11:59 AM)salukiblue Wrote: Even if a rational response is provided, it won't be accepted or even considered. So why start the thread when one doesn't really want to engage in an adult give and take?
I'm curious if you have one. I understand criticism of Pastner on certain fronts (big wins in March being the main one), but roster management seems to be something he does fairly well and we don't seem to have major disciplinary problems under JP. Add that to the graduation rates and it strikes me that this is a strength.
I also get the OP's point on the transfer being a common place occurrence now and we seem to be hit as often as any other high level team.
I'd welcome a rational counter argument, legitimately curious. Feel free to PM me if you feel that is a better course.
There's two different kinds of transfers: someone buried on the bench who is not expected to contribute in the near future, like Damien Wilson, Jeff Robinson, Antonio Barton, etc. Then there is the player who is expected to be a heavy contributor to your team that 'mysteriously' decides to transfer leaving your team in the lurch. Tarik Black, Dom Woodson fall into this category. These types of transfers hurt us, no question, and there seems to be a lot with Pastner. A part of leadership is motivating these guys to WANT to be here and to play for you. Pastner is still a work in progress in that regard.