(08-07-2014 02:41 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back.

I'll take that bet all day. It's rare that major SEC teams beat GS by 30+ unless we are having a very down year. StAte should be able to stay with Tennessee.

Anything is possible but to give you a litter perspective,

stAte is 0-23 against the SEC with an average score of 12 to 42.

(08-07-2014 02:35 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  As for the MSU game in Mobile, that has nothing to do with respect for the USA football program. It's about a relatively poor program looking to boost its presence in super fertile recruiting grounds.

That isn't the future or the emergence of some sort of more equal system. It's a symptom of the gap that is being created further up the ladder. Like the old saying says, **** rolls down hill.

comparison:

MSU enrollment - 20,424 endowment $394.9 million (2013)
USA enrollment - 15,311 endowment $415 million

MSU is also trying to stop the bleeding. Several friends and family went out of state to MSU (about a dozen); now the trend is a lot are staying instate and going to UAB and South Alabama. Another issue that is coming to light is that over half of the UA's Freshmen class is from out of state; therefore, a lot of instate high school grads have to look for other options. First UAB and now USA is seeing steady growth in enrollments which will eventually turn into growing alumni basis with clout within the state.

(08-07-2014 02:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:19 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  It isn't a question of understanding it. It's a matter of existing within that framework. It's a matter of dealing with market realities and the very real disparities that exist between these programs.

As for your first comment, I've yet to see any above average P5 program accept a deal that is anything short of a pay-per-pounding.

And you are seeing G5 programs who are no longer willing to take that pounding.

Arkansas State finishes up a pre existing money contract with Tennessee this year. We're going into that game expecting to not only take the million dollar check, but win the game, and our coaches have already said it will be a failure if we don't win that game.

What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

Money

stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back. That's a very harsh reality. But, it's one that these programs are forced to take. As soon as stAte quits the pay-per-pounding model they will get surpassed by other teams who are willing to take that beating within the conference because they will have more money than you and you don't have the size or prestige to grow independently as quickly as others will with their paychecks.

That isn't the real danger though. If there is a P5 only scheduling deal then G5 football may as well be FCS.

My point is not to support this unfair system but to show that many in the G5 were either unwittingly duped or were forced to willingly collaborate in their own destruction.

We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

(08-07-2014 02:45 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:41 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back.

I'll take that bet all day. It's rare that major SEC teams beat GS by 30+ unless we are having a very down year. StAte should be able to stay with Tennessee.

Anything is possible but to give you a litter perspective,

stAte is 0-23 against the SEC with an average score of 12 to 42.

I guess you don't count the A&M win because they were not SEC at the time?

Might also be worth noting that all but about 3 of those games happened when our football team was downright awful.

(08-07-2014 02:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:22 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:12 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Given the trend, the first option. What we are seeing is a fundamental shift in how things are done. The G5 are, of course, not going to be fans because they have worked so hard to make the old system work for them.

I don't see any real trend here...G5 and FCS games are still being scheduled many years in advance (NC State has Furman booked for 2024 for example).

At the bare minimum, it will be a very long and hard slog to get rid of the FCS and G5 games.

In all honesty I hope you are right but I don't think you will prove to be.

The TV networks were the perverbial trojan horses that will facilitate the destruction of the FBS as we know it. The playoff system is yet another nail in the coffin. If one P5 conference is mathematically certain to lose out you can bet that no system can be allowed that would give a 'lesser' G5 conference a chance at a spot.

This is a last attempt to hold off the junior and up and coming schools into the market. They are trying to keep their market share; however, there is no way to keep the USFs, UCFs, Boise States, Cincinnattis,....from making some noise. The P5 want a guarantee that they will always be on top. It won't happen.

It's already gotten past the the "attempt" mark. It's already in place. The USFs etc are already irrelevant because they are on the outside looking in.

The P5 only scheduling argument and autonomy issues are the next step to separating out the top of the college football world and creating a system that ensures a high level of superiority.

The G5 played into the 'game' for years and many fans and administrations thought new weight rooms and new stadiums were making them more competitive but none of them really grasped the fact that they may have taken two steps forward but the P5 took 5 steps forward. It's all relative.

You are not paying attention. How can they seperate without blowing the whole thing up? How do you keep the G5 from not starting their own playoff system and claiming they are the champions of College Football? Eventually, they will have to prove their brand of football is better which means a P5 vs G5 championship game. Back to square one.

The history is correct, you can't deny. Yet we are not the same program as we were for most of that historical record.

We have just as much of an opportunity to beat Tennessee as ULM did beating Bama/Arkansas or Troy did Missouri.

Are we going to beat Tennessee at the peak of its SEC glory? No. Can we beat a Tennessee rebuilding or rising? Definitely.

Can we beat Texas A&M at Kyle Field? Yep...some days.

(08-07-2014 02:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  And you are seeing G5 programs who are no longer willing to take that pounding.

Arkansas State finishes up a pre existing money contract with Tennessee this year. We're going into that game expecting to not only take the million dollar check, but win the game, and our coaches have already said it will be a failure if we don't win that game.

What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

Money

stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back. That's a very harsh reality. But, it's one that these programs are forced to take. As soon as stAte quits the pay-per-pounding model they will get surpassed by other teams who are willing to take that beating within the conference because they will have more money than you and you don't have the size or prestige to grow independently as quickly as others will with their paychecks.

That isn't the real danger though. If there is a P5 only scheduling deal then G5 football may as well be FCS.

My point is not to support this unfair system but to show that many in the G5 were either unwittingly duped or were forced to willingly collaborate in their own destruction.

We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

Please understand, I am in no way trying to downplay what you have done.

Still, you can build new facilities but they are only as good as they compare to everybody else's. It's a curve. Having a $50 million dollar facility means nothing if everybody else has a $75 million dollar one.

It's an ugly and unfair situation. Take the paychecks and hit a glass ceiling or don't and slide backward.

The G5 needs leadership that can grapple with these facts. They haven't found that yet.

Like Snyder at K-State said "money is ruining the game".

(08-07-2014 02:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Money

stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back. That's a very harsh reality. But, it's one that these programs are forced to take. As soon as stAte quits the pay-per-pounding model they will get surpassed by other teams who are willing to take that beating within the conference because they will have more money than you and you don't have the size or prestige to grow independently as quickly as others will with their paychecks.

That isn't the real danger though. If there is a P5 only scheduling deal then G5 football may as well be FCS.

My point is not to support this unfair system but to show that many in the G5 were either unwittingly duped or were forced to willingly collaborate in their own destruction.

We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

Please understand, I am in no way trying to downplay what you have done.

Still, you can build new facilities but they are only as good as they compare to everybody else's. It's a curve. Having a $50 million dollar facility means nothing if everybody else has a $75 million dollar one.

It's an ugly and unfair situation. Take the paychecks and hit a glass ceiling or don't and slide backward.

The G5 needs leadership that can grapple with these facts. They haven't found that yet.

Yes, but you seem to be thinking that's how most G5 schools build their budgets, when its not. I can guarantee you that the Cajuns didn't come up with all of these facility improvements based off profits from guarantee games. They were built because of increased donations and ticket sales at both schools. Neither of those come from money games.

(08-07-2014 02:55 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:22 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:12 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  I don't see any real trend here...G5 and FCS games are still being scheduled many years in advance (NC State has Furman booked for 2024 for example).

At the bare minimum, it will be a very long and hard slog to get rid of the FCS and G5 games.

In all honesty I hope you are right but I don't think you will prove to be.

The TV networks were the perverbial trojan horses that will facilitate the destruction of the FBS as we know it. The playoff system is yet another nail in the coffin. If one P5 conference is mathematically certain to lose out you can bet that no system can be allowed that would give a 'lesser' G5 conference a chance at a spot.

This is a last attempt to hold off the junior and up and coming schools into the market. They are trying to keep their market share; however, there is no way to keep the USFs, UCFs, Boise States, Cincinnattis,....from making some noise. The P5 want a guarantee that they will always be on top. It won't happen.

It's already gotten past the the "attempt" mark. It's already in place. The USFs etc are already irrelevant because they are on the outside looking in.

The P5 only scheduling argument and autonomy issues are the next step to separating out the top of the college football world and creating a system that ensures a high level of superiority.

The G5 played into the 'game' for years and many fans and administrations thought new weight rooms and new stadiums were making them more competitive but none of them really grasped the fact that they may have taken two steps forward but the P5 took 5 steps forward. It's all relative.

You are not paying attention. How can they seperate without blowing the whole thing up? How do you keep the G5 from not starting their own playoff system and claiming they are the champions of College Football? Eventually, they will have to prove their brand of football is better which means a P5 vs G5 championship game. Back to square one.

Step one to fixing a problem is admitting you have one.

There isn't an answer on how to fix it. However, like I said, it starts with admitting there is a problem that threatens to further relegate G5 football to basement status. It also starts with a realization that the current model does not benefit these teams in relation to the P5.

The only thing I believe could go some way towards redressing the balance would be to take from schools the ability to create their own schedule. Let them have conference schedules and then force P5 programs like Alabama to travel to Lafayette or wherever by using a lottery system that assigns a home or away and team.

(08-07-2014 02:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The history is correct, you can't deny. Yet we are not the same program as we were for most of that historical record.

We have just as much of an opportunity to beat Tennessee as ULM did beating Bama/Arkansas or Troy did Missouri.

Are we going to beat Tennessee at the peak of its SEC glory? No. Can we beat a Tennessee rebuilding or rising? Definitely.

Can we beat Texas A&M at Kyle Field? Yep...some days.

I truthfully don't think Bama fans would know what to do with us if we played them. Auburn fans are still confused after we invaded their board, projected 15-20 point wins, and told them we were a better program than most of the PAC 12.

Most P5 schools are not used to that attitude.

(08-07-2014 03:00 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

Please understand, I am in no way trying to downplay what you have done.

Still, you can build new facilities but they are only as good as they compare to everybody else's. It's a curve. Having a $50 million dollar facility means nothing if everybody else has a $75 million dollar one.

It's an ugly and unfair situation. Take the paychecks and hit a glass ceiling or don't and slide backward.

The G5 needs leadership that can grapple with these facts. They haven't found that yet.

Yes, but you seem to be thinking that's how most G5 schools build their budgets, when its not. I can guarantee you that the Cajuns didn't come up with all of these facility improvements based off profits from guarantee games. They were built because of increased donations and ticket sales at both schools. Neither of those come from money games.

Yep.

(08-07-2014 03:00 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

Please understand, I am in no way trying to downplay what you have done.

Still, you can build new facilities but they are only as good as they compare to everybody else's. It's a curve. Having a $50 million dollar facility means nothing if everybody else has a $75 million dollar one.

It's an ugly and unfair situation. Take the paychecks and hit a glass ceiling or don't and slide backward.

The G5 needs leadership that can grapple with these facts. They haven't found that yet.

Yes, but you seem to be thinking that's how most G5 schools build their budgets, when its not. I can guarantee you that the Cajuns didn't come up with all of these facility improvements based off profits from guarantee games. They were built because of increased donations and ticket sales at both schools. Neither of those come from money games.

I've never said that, or implied it.

Playing bigger games against P5 groups have multiple positives for G5 programs in the short term. It's about exposure as much as it is anything else. Another harsh fact is the vast majority of college football fans don't know where Arkansas State is or anything about it. The same is said for most G5 schools who don't have some grander reputation, like Tulane for example.

Playing big games puts you on television. However, you don't gain ground, yet again, on the P5 through that exposure. You do however gain an advantage against your G5 competition.

(08-07-2014 03:03 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The history is correct, you can't deny. Yet we are not the same program as we were for most of that historical record.

We have just as much of an opportunity to beat Tennessee as ULM did beating Bama/Arkansas or Troy did Missouri.

Are we going to beat Tennessee at the peak of its SEC glory? No. Can we beat a Tennessee rebuilding or rising? Definitely.

Can we beat Texas A&M at Kyle Field? Yep...some days.

I truthfully don't think Bama fans would know what to do with us if we played them. Auburn fans are still confused after we invaded their board, projected 15-20 point wins, and told them we were a better program than most of the PAC 12.

Most P5 schools are not used to that attitude.

We haven't delivered against P5 OOC. But to say we can't deliver due to our place in the world ignores what our peers in the same place have done.

Only winning one of those type games is on us...no blame on conferences or money or demons. Us.

But we are confident that we are going to slay more than one of those giants...and we will.

(08-07-2014 03:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 03:00 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

Please understand, I am in no way trying to downplay what you have done.

Still, you can build new facilities but they are only as good as they compare to everybody else's. It's a curve. Having a $50 million dollar facility means nothing if everybody else has a $75 million dollar one.

It's an ugly and unfair situation. Take the paychecks and hit a glass ceiling or don't and slide backward.

The G5 needs leadership that can grapple with these facts. They haven't found that yet.

Yes, but you seem to be thinking that's how most G5 schools build their budgets, when its not. I can guarantee you that the Cajuns didn't come up with all of these facility improvements based off profits from guarantee games. They were built because of increased donations and ticket sales at both schools. Neither of those come from money games.

I've never said that, or implied it.

Playing bigger games against P5 groups have multiple positives for G5 programs in the short term. It's about exposure as much as it is anything else. Another harsh fact is the vast majority of college football fans don't know where Arkansas State is or anything about it. The same is said for most G5 schools who don't have some grander reputation, like Tulane for example.

Playing big games puts you on television. However, you don't gain ground, yet again, on the P5 through that exposure. You do however gain an advantage against your G5 competition.

Yet, I could turn around and point out to you that Arkansas State draws the highest viewership in the SBC Currently, and that we've seen a tremendous explosion of merchandise and brand sells nationally. People recognize us now.

Now we've beaten one P5 program in our history. They are not recognizing us because we played Oregon on TV two years ago. they recognize us because we've won a bunch of conference titles and played in 3 straight bowl games and have made national news for our coaching changes. As for TV. We're getting the same audience for the Miami and Tennessee game this year that we will for the Texas State game in terms of potential household viewers.

No G5 school intends or tries to grow its brand with guarantee games. That would be ridiculous.

(08-07-2014 03:10 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 03:03 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:55 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  The history is correct, you can't deny. Yet we are not the same program as we were for most of that historical record.

We have just as much of an opportunity to beat Tennessee as ULM did beating Bama/Arkansas or Troy did Missouri.

Are we going to beat Tennessee at the peak of its SEC glory? No. Can we beat a Tennessee rebuilding or rising? Definitely.

Can we beat Texas A&M at Kyle Field? Yep...some days.

I truthfully don't think Bama fans would know what to do with us if we played them. Auburn fans are still confused after we invaded their board, projected 15-20 point wins, and told them we were a better program than most of the PAC 12.

Most P5 schools are not used to that attitude.

We haven't delivered against P5 OOC. But to say we can't deliver due to our place in the world ignores what our peers in the same place have done.

Only winning one of those type games is on us...no blame on conferences or money or demons. Us.

But we are confident that we are going to slay more than one of those giants...and we will.

Exactly. We left something like 24 points on the field against Auburn last year. Those weren't because of superior Auburn athletes or program money. It was because we turned the ball over twice, and failed on 4th and short a couple times.

We haven't beaten any of the big boys yet because we've made some small mistakes in key situations that we normally don't make. Not because we were intimidated by their name and stadium or something.

(08-07-2014 03:10 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 03:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 03:00 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:56 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:51 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I don't know. We're already building facilities and everything else. Besides...we'll just keep cashing in on coaching buyouts (Kidding)

The real issue in our case is local impact. The recent numbers out indicate that Arkansas State provides a 2 Billion dollar impact in the economy of Northeast Arkansas. Those numbers are significantly up in the fall every year when fans from other parts of the state head into NEA for football games.

Locally, the businesses in Jonesboro expect 6 home games a year. Economically, if we have to sacrifice money games to ensure we get those 6 home games. It will be done.

Please understand, I am in no way trying to downplay what you have done.

Still, you can build new facilities but they are only as good as they compare to everybody else's. It's a curve. Having a $50 million dollar facility means nothing if everybody else has a $75 million dollar one.

It's an ugly and unfair situation. Take the paychecks and hit a glass ceiling or don't and slide backward.

The G5 needs leadership that can grapple with these facts. They haven't found that yet.

Yes, but you seem to be thinking that's how most G5 schools build their budgets, when its not. I can guarantee you that the Cajuns didn't come up with all of these facility improvements based off profits from guarantee games. They were built because of increased donations and ticket sales at both schools. Neither of those come from money games.

I've never said that, or implied it.

Playing bigger games against P5 groups have multiple positives for G5 programs in the short term. It's about exposure as much as it is anything else. Another harsh fact is the vast majority of college football fans don't know where Arkansas State is or anything about it. The same is said for most G5 schools who don't have some grander reputation, like Tulane for example.

Playing big games puts you on television. However, you don't gain ground, yet again, on the P5 through that exposure. You do however gain an advantage against your G5 competition.

Yet, I could turn around and point out to you that Arkansas State draws the highest viewership in the SBC Currently, and that we've seen a tremendous explosion of merchandise and brand sells nationally. People recognize us now.

Now we've beaten one P5 program in our history. They are not recognizing us because we played Oregon on TV two years ago. they recognize us because we've won a bunch of conference titles and played in 3 straight bowl games and have made national news for our coaching changes. As for TV. We're getting the same audience for the Miami and Tennessee game this year that we will for the Texas State game in terms of potential household viewers.

No G5 school intends or tries to grow its brand with guarantee games. That would be ridiculous.

I'm very clearly striking too close to an insecurity because you are getting a bit defensive. I apologize because that isn't my intent.

This whisp of success is very easily lost and totally forgotten even more easily. I understand you not wanting to admit that because you very understandably and nobly have great pride in your school in program. However, you can't let that cloud your view on reality. You're utterly irrelevant and it's because of an unfair system. I'd like that system to change.

This is a reality all G5 teams face. It's all fleeting under this system.

Yall worry too much about silly stuff. I'm just ready to watch some football. The future will bring what the future will bring.

Autonomy vote passes

This hurts.

The G5 needs to separate itself. I believe it starts with a commitment to one another. A major problem today is there isn't a single G5 program that wouldn't burn down their conference mates for an invite up the line. A commitment to a separate system that plays on the advantages the G5 has is the only way forward.

(08-07-2014 03:02 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:55 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:28 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:22 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  In all honesty I hope you are right but I don't think you will prove to be.

The TV networks were the perverbial trojan horses that will facilitate the destruction of the FBS as we know it. The playoff system is yet another nail in the coffin. If one P5 conference is mathematically certain to lose out you can bet that no system can be allowed that would give a 'lesser' G5 conference a chance at a spot.

This is a last attempt to hold off the junior and up and coming schools into the market. They are trying to keep their market share; however, there is no way to keep the USFs, UCFs, Boise States, Cincinnattis,....from making some noise. The P5 want a guarantee that they will always be on top. It won't happen.

It's already gotten past the the "attempt" mark. It's already in place. The USFs etc are already irrelevant because they are on the outside looking in.

The P5 only scheduling argument and autonomy issues are the next step to separating out the top of the college football world and creating a system that ensures a high level of superiority.

The G5 played into the 'game' for years and many fans and administrations thought new weight rooms and new stadiums were making them more competitive but none of them really grasped the fact that they may have taken two steps forward but the P5 took 5 steps forward. It's all relative.

You are not paying attention. How can they seperate without blowing the whole thing up? How do you keep the G5 from not starting their own playoff system and claiming they are the champions of College Football? Eventually, they will have to prove their brand of football is better which means a P5 vs G5 championship game. Back to square one.

Step one to fixing a problem is admitting you have one.

There isn't an answer on how to fix it. However, like I said, it starts with admitting there is a problem that threatens to further relegate G5 football to basement status. It also starts with a realization that the current model does not benefit these teams in relation to the P5.

The only thing I believe could go some way towards redressing the balance would be to take from schools the ability to create their own schedule. Let them have conference schedules and then force P5 programs like Alabama to travel to Lafayette or wherever by using a lottery system that assigns a home or away and team.

You are absolutely correct. The P5 does not like losing to G5 so they are trying to fix their problem but it won't work.

This is the easiest solution. Treat it like any other division if football including the NFL.

1. Play who you want, just win your division
2. Win you conference championship game
3. Win your playoff games
4. Win Championship

You can't create a playoff system and then tell half your members they can never play for a championship. It won't work.

P5 playing only P5 actually speeds up what you are trying to keep from happening.

P5 actually believes the rest of college football is fed by them, that is crazy. The thing is now is that you have a lot more schools competing for the money. This is about market share and monopoly and trying to force everyone to buy into that belief. Therefore, Alabama and Auburn do not want to share the pie with UAB, USA and Troy.

This has nothing to do with actually playing football.

FSU has lost to USF.
Florida lost to Ga Southern (FCS)
ULM beat Arkansas
USM has beat Alabama
App State has beat Michigan
Navy has beaten Notre 3 times (in the last seven years)

There are no absolutes my friend. Therefore, there is no acknowlegement of superiority on the field. When Duke, Vanderbilt or Northwestern win a National Championship, I might concur with you.