(08-07-2014 01:18 PM)moehler Wrote:  Indiana coach made a great point, can you handle everyone playing 500 ball, than I guess its okay, Saban and the others in favor believe that only playing power 5 schools will increase attendance, how but not charging $8.00 a hotdog, $6.00 waters, and 70.00 per general tickets, and $50.00 parking. Saban, you think maybe instead price gauging your fans, and happly taking a 4 million plus salary, you guys could get them back in seats by cutting prices and give them a fair valued product?

Yet Saban schedules more FCS and G5 schools than anyone else.

(08-07-2014 02:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:58 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That's simply not true. Who is going to drive an hour or more to see a blowout for a team they only sort of care about? The answer is nobody. That's the problem many G5 schools have today.

I agree that it is all about the bottom line and that is going to make this P5 only scheduling argument difficult to contend with. Fans, dollar bills like it.

But people do drive a ways to see weak opponents. And if they don't they can always lower the ticket prices a little bit and get more people and they will still make a lot of money.

UGA, for example, pretty much sells out regardless of whether they are hosting a major SEC opponent or Georgia Southern. Every game we played with them they have 90k fans.

Do you think they'd rather try to find a home-and-home with another P5 or share a small chunk of their large revenues with a team like Georgia Southern who is just up the road ?

Given the trend, the first option. What we are seeing is a fundamental shift in how things are done. The G5 are, of course, not going to be fans because they have worked so hard to make the old system work for them.

(08-07-2014 01:34 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  "Mississippi State's Dan Mullen, who also favored it, said that if the schools played only Power Five opponents, they would need more scholarship players and expanded eligibility."

This was the must troubling idea of the whole article. That is one area I hope we remain equal.

Wow,Coach Mullen.More Scholarships mean both of your four stars go to Bama and you fill in with G5 talent......

Eventually the coach see his fans buying "A" teeshirts @ Starkville Wal-Mart and driving to Tuscaloosa for games.

Crazy....

The new system is about eyeballs on a tv screen. Is Georgia better off having the nation watch them play Penn State or Washington in Dallas or Atlanta or wherever, or having declining attendance and a limited set of eyeballs watching them play Ga. Southern on CSN?

(08-07-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:58 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That's simply not true. Who is going to drive an hour or more to see a blowout for a team they only sort of care about? The answer is nobody. That's the problem many G5 schools have today.

I agree that it is all about the bottom line and that is going to make this P5 only scheduling argument difficult to contend with. Fans, dollar bills like it.

But people do drive a ways to see weak opponents. And if they don't they can always lower the ticket prices a little bit and get more people and they will still make a lot of money.

UGA, for example, pretty much sells out regardless of whether they are hosting a major SEC opponent or Georgia Southern. Every game we played with them they have 90k fans.

Do you think they'd rather try to find a home-and-home with another P5 or share a small chunk of their large revenues with a team like Georgia Southern who is just up the road ?

Given the trend, the first option. What we are seeing is a fundamental shift in how things are done. The G5 are, of course, not going to be fans because they have worked so hard to make the old system work for them.

I don't see any real trend here...G5 and FCS games are still being scheduled many years in advance (NC State has Furman booked for 2024 for example).

At the bare minimum, it will be a very long and hard slog to get rid of the FCS and G5 games.

(08-07-2014 02:12 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:58 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That's simply not true. Who is going to drive an hour or more to see a blowout for a team they only sort of care about? The answer is nobody. That's the problem many G5 schools have today.

I agree that it is all about the bottom line and that is going to make this P5 only scheduling argument difficult to contend with. Fans, dollar bills like it.

But people do drive a ways to see weak opponents. And if they don't they can always lower the ticket prices a little bit and get more people and they will still make a lot of money.

UGA, for example, pretty much sells out regardless of whether they are hosting a major SEC opponent or Georgia Southern. Every game we played with them they have 90k fans.

Do you think they'd rather try to find a home-and-home with another P5 or share a small chunk of their large revenues with a team like Georgia Southern who is just up the road ?

Given the trend, the first option. What we are seeing is a fundamental shift in how things are done. The G5 are, of course, not going to be fans because they have worked so hard to make the old system work for them.

I don't see any real trend here...G5 and FCS games are still being scheduled many years in advance (NC State has Furman booked for 2024 for example).

At the bare minimum, it will be a very long and hard slog to get rid of the FCS and G5 games.

In all honesty I hope you are right but I don't think you will prove to be.

The TV networks were the perverbial trojan horses that will facilitate the destruction of the FBS as we know it. The playoff system is yet another nail in the coffin. If one P5 conference is mathematically certain to lose out you can bet that no system can be allowed that would give a 'lesser' G5 conference a chance at a spot.

(08-07-2014 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:01 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:56 PM)The Black Flag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:45 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  I'd be careful admitting you gave away tickets last year. Isn't Alabama cracking down on that? Wouldn't shock me at all if Saban has spies on the internet watching for those things.

The whole concept would last until some schools started going 2-10 with the new schedules and fans stopped coming because the team wasn't winning.

Right.. the coaches want to play only P5 schools, have 9 home games, and go undefeated each year.

Talk to the AD and you'll quickly realize that this isn't mathematically possible, and a lot of teams won't like it. Those P5 fringe teams that go 8-4 and go to a bowl each year with 1 FCS win, and 2 G5 wins, aren't going bowling for a long time. Those teams will oppose this... or be screwed by the majority)

The answer to that problem has already been put in place, TV networks. An athletic program is perfectly willing to give up a home game if they are trading it for millions of eyeballs on TV. The emergence of these kickoff match ups is already playing to that.

It will end up creating a gap in P5 programs though. Teams like Alabama and Texas etc will begin paying Indiana and the like to show up like they do G5 teams today. The rich will get richer.

But again...that's the reason it would never happen. There is no way on earth that Indiana, Wake, UNC, Duke, Vandy, Kentucky etc would ever support such schedules because it would destroy their football programs. You'd essentially be creating a class for the top 20 of the P5, and the other 45 would be left to Starve.

The G5 take their checks and shut up, why would it be any different for programs that are more interested in other sports or have other institutional priorities?

You are seeing far fewer G5 schools that just take their checks and shut up...but I digress.

The biggest difference is that Indiana sees itself on the same level as Alabama. They advertise that to their fans, and use it as a way to bring fans in. They would expect Alabama to give them a home game. Alabama would want to pay them off like any G5 school

for many of these schools, it would really destroy their program. Most AD's worth their salt undertand that.

(08-07-2014 02:11 PM)WhitetailWizard Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:34 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  "Mississippi State's Dan Mullen, who also favored it, said that if the schools played only Power Five opponents, they would need more scholarship players and expanded eligibility."

This was the must troubling idea of the whole article. That is one area I hope we remain equal.

Wow,Coach Mullen.More Scholarships mean both of your four stars go to Bama and you fill in with G5 talent......

Eventually the coach see his fans buying "A" teeshirts @ Starkville Wal-Mart and driving to Tuscaloosa for games.

Crazy....

Exactly.

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:01 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:56 PM)The Black Flag Wrote:  Right.. the coaches want to play only P5 schools, have 9 home games, and go undefeated each year.

Talk to the AD and you'll quickly realize that this isn't mathematically possible, and a lot of teams won't like it. Those P5 fringe teams that go 8-4 and go to a bowl each year with 1 FCS win, and 2 G5 wins, aren't going bowling for a long time. Those teams will oppose this... or be screwed by the majority)

The answer to that problem has already been put in place, TV networks. An athletic program is perfectly willing to give up a home game if they are trading it for millions of eyeballs on TV. The emergence of these kickoff match ups is already playing to that.

It will end up creating a gap in P5 programs though. Teams like Alabama and Texas etc will begin paying Indiana and the like to show up like they do G5 teams today. The rich will get richer.

But again...that's the reason it would never happen. There is no way on earth that Indiana, Wake, UNC, Duke, Vandy, Kentucky etc would ever support such schedules because it would destroy their football programs. You'd essentially be creating a class for the top 20 of the P5, and the other 45 would be left to Starve.

The G5 take their checks and shut up, why would it be any different for programs that are more interested in other sports or have other institutional priorities?

You are seeing far fewer G5 schools that just take their checks and shut up...but I digress.

The biggest difference is that Indiana sees itself on the same level as Alabama. They advertise that to their fans, and use it as a way to bring fans in. They would expect Alabama to give them a home game. Alabama would want to pay them off like any G5 school

for many of these schools, it would really destroy their program. Most AD's worth their salt undertand that.

It isn't a question of understanding it. It's a matter of existing within that framework. It's a matter of dealing with market realities and the very real disparities that exist between these programs.

As for your first comment, I've yet to see any above average P5 program accept a deal that is anything short of a pay-per-pounding.

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:12 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 01:58 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  That's simply not true. Who is going to drive an hour or more to see a blowout for a team they only sort of care about? The answer is nobody. That's the problem many G5 schools have today.

I agree that it is all about the bottom line and that is going to make this P5 only scheduling argument difficult to contend with. Fans, dollar bills like it.

But people do drive a ways to see weak opponents. And if they don't they can always lower the ticket prices a little bit and get more people and they will still make a lot of money.

UGA, for example, pretty much sells out regardless of whether they are hosting a major SEC opponent or Georgia Southern. Every game we played with them they have 90k fans.

Do you think they'd rather try to find a home-and-home with another P5 or share a small chunk of their large revenues with a team like Georgia Southern who is just up the road ?

Given the trend, the first option. What we are seeing is a fundamental shift in how things are done. The G5 are, of course, not going to be fans because they have worked so hard to make the old system work for them.

I don't see any real trend here...G5 and FCS games are still being scheduled many years in advance (NC State has Furman booked for 2024 for example).

At the bare minimum, it will be a very long and hard slog to get rid of the FCS and G5 games.

In all honesty I hope you are right but I don't think you will prove to be.

The TV networks were the perverbial trojan horses that will facilitate the destruction of the FBS as we know it. The playoff system is yet another nail in the coffin. If one P5 conference is mathematically certain to lose out you can bet that no system can be allowed that would give a 'lesser' G5 conference a chance at a spot.

This is a last attempt to hold off the junior and up and coming schools into the market. They are trying to keep their market share; however, there is no way to keep the USFs, UCFs, Boise States, Cincinnattis,....from making some noise. The P5 want a guarantee that they will always be on top. It won't happen.

(08-07-2014 02:19 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:01 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The answer to that problem has already been put in place, TV networks. An athletic program is perfectly willing to give up a home game if they are trading it for millions of eyeballs on TV. The emergence of these kickoff match ups is already playing to that.


It will end up creating a gap in P5 programs though. Teams like Alabama and Texas etc will begin paying Indiana and the like to show up like they do G5 teams today. The rich will get richer.

But again...that's the reason it would never happen. There is no way on earth that Indiana, Wake, UNC, Duke, Vandy, Kentucky etc would ever support such schedules because it would destroy their football programs. You'd essentially be creating a class for the top 20 of the P5, and the other 45 would be left to Starve.

The G5 take their checks and shut up, why would it be any different for programs that are more interested in other sports or have other institutional priorities?

You are seeing far fewer G5 schools that just take their checks and shut up...but I digress.

The biggest difference is that Indiana sees itself on the same level as Alabama. They advertise that to their fans, and use it as a way to bring fans in. They would expect Alabama to give them a home game. Alabama would want to pay them off like any G5 school

for many of these schools, it would really destroy their program. Most AD's worth their salt undertand that.

It isn't a question of understanding it. It's a matter of existing within that framework. It's a matter of dealing with market realities and the very real disparities that exist between these programs.

As for your first comment, I've yet to see any above average P5 program accept a deal that is anything short of a pay-per-pounding.

And you are seeing G5 programs who are no longer willing to take that pounding.

Arkansas State finishes up a pre existing money contract with Tennessee this year. We're going into that game expecting to not only take the million dollar check, but win the game, and our coaches have already said it will be a failure if we don't win that game.

What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

(08-07-2014 02:22 PM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:12 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:10 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:07 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  But people do drive a ways to see weak opponents. And if they don't they can always lower the ticket prices a little bit and get more people and they will still make a lot of money.

UGA, for example, pretty much sells out regardless of whether they are hosting a major SEC opponent or Georgia Southern. Every game we played with them they have 90k fans.

Do you think they'd rather try to find a home-and-home with another P5 or share a small chunk of their large revenues with a team like Georgia Southern who is just up the road ?

Given the trend, the first option. What we are seeing is a fundamental shift in how things are done. The G5 are, of course, not going to be fans because they have worked so hard to make the old system work for them.

I don't see any real trend here...G5 and FCS games are still being scheduled many years in advance (NC State has Furman booked for 2024 for example).

At the bare minimum, it will be a very long and hard slog to get rid of the FCS and G5 games.

In all honesty I hope you are right but I don't think you will prove to be.

The TV networks were the perverbial trojan horses that will facilitate the destruction of the FBS as we know it. The playoff system is yet another nail in the coffin. If one P5 conference is mathematically certain to lose out you can bet that no system can be allowed that would give a 'lesser' G5 conference a chance at a spot.

This is a last attempt to hold off the junior and up and coming schools into the market. They are trying to keep their market share; however, there is no way to keep the USFs, UCFs, Boise States, Cincinnattis,....from making some noise. The P5 want a guarantee that they will always be on top. It won't happen.

It's already gotten past the the "attempt" mark. It's already in place. The USFs etc are already irrelevant because they are on the outside looking in.

The P5 only scheduling argument and autonomy issues are the next step to separating out the top of the college football world and creating a system that ensures a high level of superiority.

The G5 played into the 'game' for years and many fans and administrations thought new weight rooms and new stadiums were making them more competitive but none of them really grasped the fact that they may have taken two steps forward but the P5 took 5 steps forward. It's all relative.

One other thing. Is everybody forgetting about Title IX and gender equity issues that arise from paying athletes? Law suits from all sides, G5 schools, Title IX restrictions. What would keep the G5 from starting it's own playoff? Nothing.

AFL vs NFL all over again. Saban and his old school ilk are trying to stall it as long as possible because they do not want to share the table. However, there has been a slow march forward for the last 40 years. Remember, there was no such thing as IA and IAA until 1978.

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

$$$$$$$$$$

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:19 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  But again...that's the reason it would never happen. There is no way on earth that Indiana, Wake, UNC, Duke, Vandy, Kentucky etc would ever support such schedules because it would destroy their football programs. You'd essentially be creating a class for the top 20 of the P5, and the other 45 would be left to Starve.

The G5 take their checks and shut up, why would it be any different for programs that are more interested in other sports or have other institutional priorities?

You are seeing far fewer G5 schools that just take their checks and shut up...but I digress.

The biggest difference is that Indiana sees itself on the same level as Alabama. They advertise that to their fans, and use it as a way to bring fans in. They would expect Alabama to give them a home game. Alabama would want to pay them off like any G5 school

for many of these schools, it would really destroy their program. Most AD's worth their salt undertand that.

It isn't a question of understanding it. It's a matter of existing within that framework. It's a matter of dealing with market realities and the very real disparities that exist between these programs.

As for your first comment, I've yet to see any above average P5 program accept a deal that is anything short of a pay-per-pounding.

And you are seeing G5 programs who are no longer willing to take that pounding.

Arkansas State finishes up a pre existing money contract with Tennessee this year. We're going into that game expecting to not only take the million dollar check, but win the game, and our coaches have already said it will be a failure if we don't win that game.

What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

Money

stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back. That's a very harsh reality. But, it's one that these programs are forced to take. As soon as stAte quits the pay-per-pounding model they will get surpassed by other teams who are willing to take that beating within the conference because they will have more money than you and you don't have the size or prestige to grow independently as quickly as others will with their paychecks.

That isn't the real danger though. If there is a P5 only scheduling deal then G5 football may as well be FCS.

My point is not to support this unfair system but to show that many in the G5 were either unwittingly duped or were forced to willingly collaborate in their own destruction.

As for the MSU game in Mobile, that has nothing to do with respect for the USA football program. It's about a relatively poor program looking to boost its presence in super fertile recruiting grounds.

That isn't the future or the emergence of some sort of more equal system. It's a symptom of the gap that is being created further up the ladder. Like the old saying says, **** rolls down hill.

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:19 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:05 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The G5 take their checks and shut up, why would it be any different for programs that are more interested in other sports or have other institutional priorities?

You are seeing far fewer G5 schools that just take their checks and shut up...but I digress.

The biggest difference is that Indiana sees itself on the same level as Alabama. They advertise that to their fans, and use it as a way to bring fans in. They would expect Alabama to give them a home game. Alabama would want to pay them off like any G5 school

for many of these schools, it would really destroy their program. Most AD's worth their salt undertand that.

It isn't a question of understanding it. It's a matter of existing within that framework. It's a matter of dealing with market realities and the very real disparities that exist between these programs.

As for your first comment, I've yet to see any above average P5 program accept a deal that is anything short of a pay-per-pounding.

And you are seeing G5 programs who are no longer willing to take that pounding.

Arkansas State finishes up a pre existing money contract with Tennessee this year. We're going into that game expecting to not only take the million dollar check, but win the game, and our coaches have already said it will be a failure if we don't win that game.

What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

Money

stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back. That's a very harsh reality. But, it's one that these programs are forced to take. As soon as stAte quits the pay-per-pounding model they will get surpassed by other teams who are willing to take that beating within the conference because they will have more money than you and you don't have the size or prestige to grow independently as quickly as others will with their paychecks.

That isn't the real danger though. If there is a P5 only scheduling deal then G5 football may as well be FCS.

My point is not to support this unfair system but to show that many in the G5 were either unwittingly duped or were forced to willingly collaborate in their own destruction.

We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

(08-07-2014 02:32 PM)sham84 Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

$$$$$$$$$$

Well yes, but once you have no financial reason to play Alabama, why play Alabama.

We just turned down a chance to play Notre Dame. Why did we do that? They wouldn't come to Jonesboro. We might have gotten a million to go play the game, but the game provided no real incentive to us.

We had no reason to give Notre Dame a guarantee...so we didn't.

(08-07-2014 02:36 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:23 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:19 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(08-07-2014 02:16 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  You are seeing far fewer G5 schools that just take their checks and shut up...but I digress.

The biggest difference is that Indiana sees itself on the same level as Alabama. They advertise that to their fans, and use it as a way to bring fans in. They would expect Alabama to give them a home game. Alabama would want to pay them off like any G5 school

for many of these schools, it would really destroy their program. Most AD's worth their salt undertand that.

It isn't a question of understanding it. It's a matter of existing within that framework. It's a matter of dealing with market realities and the very real disparities that exist between these programs.

As for your first comment, I've yet to see any above average P5 program accept a deal that is anything short of a pay-per-pounding.

And you are seeing G5 programs who are no longer willing to take that pounding.

Arkansas State finishes up a pre existing money contract with Tennessee this year. We're going into that game expecting to not only take the million dollar check, but win the game, and our coaches have already said it will be a failure if we don't win that game.

What incentive does any G5 school have to play Alabama?

Money

stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back. That's a very harsh reality. But, it's one that these programs are forced to take. As soon as stAte quits the pay-per-pounding model they will get surpassed by other teams who are willing to take that beating within the conference because they will have more money than you and you don't have the size or prestige to grow independently as quickly as others will with their paychecks.

That isn't the real danger though. If there is a P5 only scheduling deal then G5 football may as well be FCS.

My point is not to support this unfair system but to show that many in the G5 were either unwittingly duped or were forced to willingly collaborate in their own destruction.

We don't look at it that way. Any loss by Arkansas State this year is considered a failure by our coaching staff. Its something they have made very clear. We are to be perfect this season. That means Miami, Tennessee, ULL, USA. Our coaches expect to win those games, our fans expect to win those games.

The thing from our perspective is that more fans are wanting out of the money games because we are tired of giving up home games. We're already starting to see some AAC schools heading that direction. Once your program has the cash, its no longer viable to play that game

You can look at it however you wish. I'm not denigrating stAte at all. You aren't an equal to Tennessee or Miami. You aren't on the same planet. Again, that's harsh reality but pretending to be something you aren't and only looking for a silver lining in a storm cloud is why you are where you are now. What is unfair in my opinion is that you never really had a choice.

Going forward stAte may very well abandon the pay-per-pound model and within 5 years you'll be getting beaten soundly by USA/App/Ga. State and the rest who are taking that cash. Why? Because they will have the money to build better facilities and offer more. They will have the better athletes. It's dangerously delusional to think that at this point in time you have somehow crossed into a different stream and are somehow isolated from the grander picture.

(08-07-2014 02:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  stAte will be lucky to get out of that game any less than 30 points back.

I'll take that bet all day. It's rare that major SEC teams beat GS by 30+ unless we are having a very down year. StAte should be able to stay with Tennessee.