That's murder.

Who created the situation in its entirety, the homeowner or the perps?

The gentleman will be fine in the court of law. I'm fine with her assuming room temp.


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(07-30-2014 06:13 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  That's murder.

No, it's not murder. It lacks the elements of murder.
It might be manslaughter.
If I were a juror, I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of heat of the moment, particularly since the situation was not of his choosing.
There are places (NY, CA) where he might get convicted. In Texas, I imagine a grand jury would no bill him, if the DA took the case to a grand jury, which I doubt most would.

The elderly man was 80, and got beaten so badly he had a broken collarbone. When you beat someone that severely, then you cant turn around and say he overreacted when he shoots someone in the back. If he had not been touched, then you might have a case. But these thugs had robbed him before, and this time they assaulted him and left him for dead while they continued to ransack his house for money and items to steal.

(07-30-2014 08:35 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  The elderly man was 80, and got beaten so badly he had a broken collarbone. When you beat someone that severely, then you cant turn around and say he overreacted when he shoots someone in the back. If he had not been touched, then you might have a case. But these thugs had robbed him before, and this time they assaulted him and left him for dead while they continued to ransack his house for money and items to steal.

Yep, he was the victim, not the thieves.

(07-30-2014 06:15 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  If I were a juror, I'd be inclined to give him the benefit of heat of the moment, particularly since the situation was not of his choosing.

Yep, and this is why I'm moving toward more leniency for the shooter. Someone invades the sanctity of your home, violently tackles you and injures you, ransacks your house... your mental state can be off the charts. It becomes a primal reaction.

The problem is comments he made later aren't really helping him. Here's one guy who definitely needed legal counsel before speaking to the press.

Good for him.... If she didn't attempt to rob his house, she'd be alive today. This woman tackled an 80 y/o and injured an 80 y/o man... I would've shot the b*tch myself.

Honestly, It is good that this elderly man shot that scum career criminal. Too bad he didn't shoot the other one.

If the threat is leaving, there is no need to shoot.

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I think the old man went too far, way too far.

Me too

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The threat may have been running away from his position but they could have been running towards a gun or something that could have harmed him.

Heat of the moment hopefully he won't be charged


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Unless the facts turn out to be vastly different from what has been reported so far, there is no way I would ever vote to convict of any crime if I were on the jury.

(07-31-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If the threat is leaving, there is no need to shoot.

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Sorry I disagree... The man is 80 years old and when a young woman, or man, attacks... that's a life or death situation in itself... Regardless if the threat is leaving, the man had every right to pull the trigger... Nothing pisses me off more than when people abuse children or the elderly... hence to why I'd shoot the woman too. If this was your father/father-in-law, you'd have a total change of opinion.

(07-31-2014 09:12 PM)ClairtonPanther Wrote:  

(07-31-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If the threat is leaving, there is no need to shoot.

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Sorry I disagree... The man is 80 years old and when a young woman, or man, attacks... that's a life or death situation in itself... Regardless if the threat is leaving, the man had every right to pull the trigger... Nothing pisses me off more than when people abuse children or the elderly... hence to why I'd shoot the woman too. If this was your father/father-in-law, you'd have a total change of opinion.

Fitbud knows karate, he is special.

(07-31-2014 11:09 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If the threat is leaving, there is no need to shoot.

In dry legal terms, you're right. But we're reacting to this as an independent party, calmly reading about the case from behind our keyboards.

In the heat of action, after being injured inside your own home and watching it get torn apart, you feel toxic adrenaline like you've rarely felt before. And the woman (and her accomplice) is ultimately responsible for bringing it on.

But like I said, his comments to the press afterwards aren't going to help him here.