(07-23-2014 11:05 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:You have zero evidence that weapons were not stored in that building. See how easy that is.

This might...... might be the dumbest argument ever raised in connection with me on the spin room..............

Seriously how old are you? Are you out of high school?

I need to know what level of intellect I'm dealing with here. Do I dismiss you out of hand or are you just naive?

Holy Crap...... this is like I know you are but what am I defense.

Show me the evidence Jew hater. Do you deny the human shields that Hamas uses. What kind of IQ I am dealing with here? You have been indoctrinated, weak minded, and a Terrorist organization runs Gaza. How stupid can you be?

(07-23-2014 10:58 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  You have zero evidence that weapons were not stored in that building. See how easy that is.

You're trying to apply a criminal justice standard to warfare, and war doesn't work that way. You can't subpoena the records to find out what is stored in the building. So you have to go off intelligence, which is by definition an estimate, not certainty.

Quote:THEY DIDNT FIND ANY FUKEN MISSILES OR MUNITIONS IN THE RUBBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND THE IDF THEMSELVES STATED THEY TARGETED THE MILITARY LEADER...... NOT MUNITIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Query relevance. The military leader is a legitimate military target, just like the missiles.

As for not finding any missiles in the rubble, if missiles are there and you hit them, they tend to do this thing called blowing up, so they're like not there any more. And a self-serving statement by one side that there were no missiles in the rubble might or might not be true. Again, this ain't a criminal justice proceeding, you don't have subpoena power.

And that means you make mistakes. If you have legitimate reason to believe something was a valid military target, you take it out. If it turns out to be a powdered milk factory, intel isn't perfect. If it turns out to be a powdered milk factory built on top of a weapons cache, then it was a legitimate target. That's not going in willy nilly and shooting everything that moves. That is wrong. But so far there's no evidence of that.

The tricky issue is accuracy. If I am using a weapon that is accurate within +/- 50 meters, then whatever is located 50 meters away becomes a concern. Again, there is no evidence here that has been abused.

Obviously, one huge consideration is quality of boots on the ground HUMINT. This is where the US sucks right now, but Mossad is generally decent.

The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim)




Hamas Charter (1988)

First of all. The party I support has many Jews within its ranks. How many GOP representatives are Jewish?

Second........ The path you travel will only weaken and isolate Israel.

Third....... I would take any IQ Pepsi challenge with you any day of the week. Twice on Sundays.......... The Jew hater line is a blinking red neon sign of the intellectually lazy.

(07-23-2014 11:14 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  First of all. The party I support has many Jews within its ranks. How many GOP representatives are Jewish?

Second........ The path you travel will only weaken and isolate Israel.

Third....... I would take any IQ Pepsi challenge with you any day of the week. Twice on Sundays.......... The Jew hater line is a blinking red neon sign of the intellectually lazy.

1) I don't belong to a political party. I win
2) You lose
3) You hate Jews who can defend themselves, you hate Israel.

(07-23-2014 11:00 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:And neither Hamas nor Iran--nor the Arabs--

Well I don't see HAMAS, nor Iran, Nor ARABS leveling Apartment buildings with missiles. That's square on the IDF.

That's who doesn't give a rat's ass.................

PATHETIC................

Mach, I don't see young Jewish kids going to Palestinian coffee shops and blowing themselves up, but Palestinian kids have done that in Israel. You keep speaking of children but have you addressed the FACT that Hamas and the Palestinian people encourage their young children to either become terrorists or suicide bombers?

Sorry Mach, but these people are roaches, and the thing with roaches is you can't just kill most of them because the ones that survive will continue to lay eggs, you need to kill all of them. These people brought this upon themselves, they refuse to act civilized and they need to be put down.

Owl,

You went half cocked on the munition storage line without any evidence.

(07-23-2014 10:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's a policy change I would make. Democracy for all. Democracy is a basic human right. If you're scared of what the Palestinian elected government will do to you, good.

Would you please explain this further. Because it sure seems like you are saying that the Palestinian's "right" to democracy should trump Israel's right to exist.

(07-23-2014 11:20 PM)jh Wrote:  

(07-23-2014 10:46 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Here's a policy change I would make. Democracy for all. Democracy is a basic human right. If you're scared of what the Palestinian elected government will do to you, good.

Would you please explain this further. Because it sure seems like you are saying that the Palestinian's "right" to democracy should trump Israel's right to exist.

Wow just Wow.

until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree


Hamas Charter (1988)

Sorry Mach, but these people are roaches, and the thing with roaches is you can't just kill most of them because the ones that survive will continue to lay eggs, you need to kill all of them.



Goebbels would be proud. This is something you would read in the 30's in Germany. I'm sorry. No group of people should ever be compared with **** roaches. You are out of line SMN. Let's just give them all a right to vote. Let's make it one country where they all are equals. One person one vote.

(07-23-2014 11:00 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  

Quote:And neither Hamas nor Iran--nor the Arabs--

Well I don't see HAMAS, nor Iran, Nor ARABS leveling Apartment buildings with missiles. That's square on the IDF.
That's who doesn't give a rat's ass.................
PATHETIC................

It's not because they aren't trying desperately to do so. It's because their missiles are relatively primitive and Israel's missile defenses are relatively capable. Should we somehow punish Israel for having built the capability to defend itself?

It's actually Hamas who are firing missiles willy nilly at civilian populations with no regard for whether or not any valid military targets are there.

Israel claims that they are targeting what their intelligence has identified as valid military targets. I don't see any evidence to refute that at this point.

(07-23-2014 11:22 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Sorry Mach, but these people are roaches, and the thing with roaches is you can't just kill most of them because the ones that survive will continue to lay eggs, you need to kill all of them.



Goebbels would be proud. This is something you would read in the 30's in Germany. I'm sorry. No group of people should ever be compared with **** roaches. You are out of line SMN. Let's just give them all a right to vote. Let's make it one country where they all are equals. One person one vote.

Only God can help you and your evil ways. You need help. You are an evil person Mach.

It's obvious to the vast majority of human beings on Earth that Israel views Palestinians as less than equal. These are crimes against humanity that are being perpetrated and it sickens me that some of my fellow countrymen feel the same way.

(07-23-2014 11:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Owl,

You went half cocked on the munition storage line without any evidence.

It's war. You don't have evidence. Quit applying a criminal justice standard to a situation where it doesn't fit.

I was making a generic argument. Whether the target in a specific building is a weapons cache or a command post or a military leader is irrelevant. All of them are legitimate military targets.

Are you out of junior high SuperFly????

(07-23-2014 11:25 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's obvious to the vast majority of human beings on Earth that Israel views Palestinians as less than equal. These are crimes against humanity that are being perpetrated and it sickens me that some of my fellow countrymen feel the same way.

No, you've been swallowing the propaganda hook, line, and sinker. Less that equal has nothing to do with it. Shooting at me has everything to do with it.

So would an Israeli reservist hold the same standard for targeting? You are going down a very slippery slope.

(07-23-2014 11:25 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's obvious to the vast majority of human beings on Earth that Israel views Palestinians as less than equal. These are crimes against humanity that are being perpetrated and it sickens me that some of my fellow countrymen feel the same way.

They elected a terrorist group to represent them. Before that the PLO. The terrorist crimes against Israel will not go unpunished. They terrorists lost everything when they murdered the Israeli athletes in Munich in 1972. Can you imagine if Israel did that? Are you even aware of this?

(07-23-2014 11:25 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's obvious to the vast majority of human beings on Earth that Israel views Palestinians as less than equal. These are crimes against humanity that are being perpetrated and it sickens me that some of my fellow countrymen feel the same way.

Do you believe that the Palestinians view Israelis as equals? Do you? Because judging by these lines, it sure doesn't seem like it.

Machiavelli Wrote:Here's a policy change I would make. Democracy for all. Democracy is a basic human right. If you're scared of what the Palestinian elected government will do to you, good.

Mach, if there was a button that the Palestinians/Hamas could push that would eliminate all of Israel do you think they'd hesitate to push it? And that includes the young, Jewish kids.

That Israeli children aren't being killed is because they have better early warning systems, better bomb shelters, and better defenses than the Palestinians. Don't blame Israel for having better equipment and ways to wipe out a threat than the Palestinians do, blame the Palestinians for launching hundreds of rockets into Israel and expecting nothing in response.