lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

I get the feeling that this list was made up for one of two reasons: either it was deliberately given a high suckage factor so one "obvious" answer would pop out, or it was meant to demonstrate why it makes no sense for the ACC to expand at all.

I vote with the several posters who have said None of the Above.

The only schools that I am even mildly interested in are:

Texas
PSU
WVU
UConn (non-football)
Georgetown (non-football)
Villanova (non-football)
JHU (lacrosse-only)
UMD
Tulane
Notre Dame (as a full member)

Rice would be on the list, but the Owls are too small to be that far away.

(06-26-2014 10:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 09:29 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Why would NC State oppose UConn? NC State is certainly not a real football school. When you're good at nothing, you're not really anything centric.

Why? It's called business - I know you have it even at Greenville or did it wash away the last time the Tar River flooded after Hurricane Floyd?

2012:

School - FB Revenue - FB Expenses = Money Supporting Non-Revenue

Clemson - $41 million - $20 million = $21 million to Non-Revenue
NC State - $32 million - $18 million = $14 million to Non-Revenue
East Carolina - $10 million - 9 million = $1 million to Non-Revenue

source: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Now in NC State's case we also net about $11 million off basketball, Clemson doesn't do near that well in BB. They make net about $2 million. You netted $600,000 in the reporting year.

By comparison UNC netted $12 million off basketball and Duke $10.5 million and UNC netted $15 million off football and Duke just $6.5 million. Remember this net, not gross.

Every football game gate is important at Clemson, and NC State, and VT, and FSU in order to support the bottom line - to support the Non-Revenue programs.

Adding UConn does nothing to help the football bottom line for the ACC's schools that net most of their money from football. UConn will not sell one more ticket in Raleigh, Clemson, Blacksburg, or Tallahassee. What UConn will do is bring another mouth to feed and to monopolize a return date at some point in the future to a State with almost no football recruits.

It's not personal against UConn that the schools with the larger football stadiums who need to fund their non-revenue programs out of the football proceeds and not donations don't get a benefit to adding UConn - it's just business.

Now with BC it's another story.

Bringing up a storm that cost people's lives. Thats the NC State class I know.

(06-27-2014 06:32 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:30 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 11:37 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 10:22 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 10:05 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  .....but did anyone from Clemson publicly state they voted no to UCONN in 2011? Most reporting I saw at the time, only BC publicly came out against UCONN, and were told to "apologize" by ESPiN. I'm not an expert on the ACC expansion committee, but it's my understanding you (the school) needs 4 (or less) no votes to be brought forth for consideration from the whole conference. So, if your "source" is correct, that means UCONN had 2 no votes in 2011. Which other 2 (or is it 3) schools opposed?

From my understanding the only schools with voting powers who supported UConn were UNC, UVA, Wake, and Duke. The three newcomers (Pitt, Syracuse, and Notre Dame) did not have voting powers yet, Maryland did not have a vote since they were withdrawing. So four out of eleven supported UConn, or five votes shy.

It should be noted that the first official vote for membership was for Louisville alone. They received eight votes, or one shy of the required votes to be extended membership. The second vote was unanimous, and Louisville was extended the invitation.

Yeah, but that was for 2012. I'm talking about when 'Cuse/Pitt were invited in 2011. The only person quoted was a wrinkled up old asshat from BC, and he was forced to "apologize" by ESPiN. Nothing else was reported, it was all speculation. I'm well aware of Clemson's opposition to UCONN for the Louisville invite. In fact, the reporting I read had Clemson/FSU as the most vocal opponents against UCONN.

But the thing is had BC been alone in opposing UConn then UConn would have been voted in. No one school can blackball anyone else.

The same dynamics that prevented UConn in 2012 were present in 2011. I would go so far as to say I can't imagine a scenario where either Clemson or FSU would be in favor of adding UConn short of it being a condition that Notre Dame puts forward for full membership. None of the football first schools are going to be willing to add another football black hole in the NE.

That is unlikely, for several reasons:

1) ND ain't joining for football;

2) What has UConn ever done to make ND want to support them in anything?

I think that relations between ND and UConn are likely frosty, at best.

nd's AD etched in stone only 3 nonconference foes: navy, stanford & usc ...
never is a long time ...

ROOMS TO GO

(06-27-2014 08:49 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

(06-27-2014 07:45 AM)HuskyU Wrote:   Boot Louisville? From a Yellow Jacket fan... They are light years ahead of Georgia Tech when it comes to relevancy and having a superior athletic program. Those who don't contribute ANYTHING to their conference (beyond their geography) shouldn't be throwing stones..

(06-27-2014 07:55 AM)Maize Wrote:  It ok...but to boot us and a Founding Member in Wake Forest...someone that voted to invite Georgia Tech is funny.

West Virginia vs. Louisville is kind of odd...nothing against WVU but the academic profile is virtually the same...but Louisville is much more of a money making machine and much more successful all around in Athletics as compared to WVU....

Nothing against Louisville. Their program is easily better than GT's in every way ... largely b/c Bobinksi and Radakovich and Braine couldn't hold Jurich's jock strap. But for me geography matters and it matters a LOT. I booted Wake Forest because they are a tiny private that doesn't add much value when you already have the Triangle. I booted Louisville because of geography. I kept ND in despite their geography because most of their alumni are in the subway cities on the east coast and they have several long standing rivals in the ACC. It is a good cultural fit. WV is a natural fit for rivalries with UMD, Pitt, and VT. Their fans though ... they're UGAg level. That's why I added the rider about fan behavior.

(06-27-2014 12:45 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 07:45 AM)HuskyU Wrote:   Boot Louisville? From a Yellow Jacket fan... They are light years ahead of Georgia Tech when it comes to relevancy and having a superior athletic program. Those who don't contribute ANYTHING to their conference (beyond their geography) shouldn't be throwing stones..

(06-27-2014 07:55 AM)Maize Wrote:  It ok...but to boot us and a Founding Member in Wake Forest...someone that voted to invite Georgia Tech is funny.

West Virginia vs. Louisville is kind of odd...nothing against WVU but the academic profile is virtually the same...but Louisville is much more of a money making machine and much more successful all around in Athletics as compared to WVU....

Nothing against Louisville. They program is easily better than GT's in every way ... largely b/c Bobinksi and Radakovich and Braine couldn't hold Jurich's jock strap. But for me geography matters and it matters a LOT. I booted Wake Forest because they are a tiny private that doesn't add much value when you already have the Triangle. I booted Louisville because of geography. I kept ND in despite their geography because most of their alumni are in the subway cities on the east coast and they have several long standing rivals in the ACC. It is a good cultural fit. WV is a natural fit for rivalries with UMD, Pitt, and VT. Their fans though ... they're UGAg level. That's why I added the rider about fan behavior.

Ok....it cool...

(06-27-2014 11:19 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 10:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(06-26-2014 09:29 PM)NBPirate Wrote:  Why would NC State oppose UConn? NC State is certainly not a real football school. When you're good at nothing, you're not really anything centric.

Why? It's called business - I know you have it even at Greenville or did it wash away the last time the Tar River flooded after Hurricane Floyd?

2012:

School - FB Revenue - FB Expenses = Money Supporting Non-Revenue

Clemson - $41 million - $20 million = $21 million to Non-Revenue
NC State - $32 million - $18 million = $14 million to Non-Revenue
East Carolina - $10 million - 9 million = $1 million to Non-Revenue

source: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/GetOneInstitutionData.aspx

Now in NC State's case we also net about $11 million off basketball, Clemson doesn't do near that well in BB. They make net about $2 million. You netted $600,000 in the reporting year.

By comparison UNC netted $12 million off basketball and Duke $10.5 million and UNC netted $15 million off football and Duke just $6.5 million. Remember this net, not gross.

Every football game gate is important at Clemson, and NC State, and VT, and FSU in order to support the bottom line - to support the Non-Revenue programs.

Adding UConn does nothing to help the football bottom line for the ACC's schools that net most of their money from football. UConn will not sell one more ticket in Raleigh, Clemson, Blacksburg, or Tallahassee. What UConn will do is bring another mouth to feed and to monopolize a return date at some point in the future to a State with almost no football recruits.

It's not personal against UConn that the schools with the larger football stadiums who need to fund their non-revenue programs out of the football proceeds and not donations don't get a benefit to adding UConn - it's just business.

Now with BC it's another story.

Bringing up a storm that cost people's lives. Thats the NC State class I know.

And the ECU class we know is that when we loaned you our stadium to play Miami after Greenville was full of mud, you thanked us by tearing down our goal posts and doing thousands of dollars of damage after the game. That's ECU class.

Perhaps you should focus on your own conference and who you will add.

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 08:49 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

(06-27-2014 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 08:49 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

it's done alright until festering into a sore containing pus ...
then ...
all bets are off ...

MEDIC ALERT

(06-27-2014 08:42 AM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  Boot the entire BE group, except for Virginia Tech and Miami.

Add Maryland, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida.

That would make for an awesome Southeast Atlantic Coast Conference.

Keep the Big East intact with all eastern football schools plus PSU.

The SEC can take Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas to replace S. Carolina, Georgia and Florida.

Ok, so that's
ACC
North
-----
Maryland
UVA
VT
UNC
NCSU
Duke
Wake

South
-----
Clemson
South Carolina
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Florida
Florida State
Miami

That's would be pretty cool. Not as many markets but domination of MD, Va, N.C., S.C., GA, and Fla.

And the SEC would be
SEC
East
-----
Auburn
Alabama
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

West
-----
Missouri
Arkansas
LSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Kansas

The SEC doesn't look the same without Fla, Ga and S.C. but Tex, Okl and Kansas make nice replacements.

(06-27-2014 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 08:49 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

You're right. It is a done deal and I do think it's totally ND's prerogative on what kind of ACC membership they will have.

I do see the possibility though, that when the SEC, B1G and ACC (and maybe the PAC 12 from Big 12 leftovers) go to 16 (whenever that may be) and go to a pod structure where pod winners play in semifinal games, that Notre Dame will want/need to join fully to have a competitive resume for a playoff spot. They would be playing two less games than a conference champion at that point. Those two games would be against a high-quality opponent. That's what I think will happen at or near the expiration of the GOR's and will be the one event that could apply pressure to Notre Dame.

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 08:49 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

You're right. It is a done deal and I do think it's totally ND's prerogative on what kind of ACC membership they will have.

I do see the possibility though, that when the SEC, B1G and ACC (and maybe the PAC 12 from Big 12 leftovers) go to 16 (whenever that may be) and go to a pod structure where pod winners play in semifinal games, that Notre Dame will want/need to join fully to have a competitive resume for a playoff spot. They would be playing two less games than a conference champion at that point. Those two games would be against a high-quality opponent. That's what I think will happen at or near the expiration of the GOR's and will be the one event that could apply pressure to Notre Dame.

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that 4x16 is mostly a message board and blogger fantasy. Reality ever? We shall see.

I don't think that it will happen, for a bunch of reasons.

Besides, I may be dead by 2027 (I would be 70 then) or may have given up on football and/or moved to Ireland for my retirement and won't care.

(06-27-2014 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 08:49 AM)fsugrad99 Wrote:  lol no

IF ND ain't fully on board, it makes zero sense, and that ain't happening.

special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

You're right. It is a done deal and I do think it's totally ND's prerogative on what kind of ACC membership they will have.

I do see the possibility though, that when the SEC, B1G and ACC (and maybe the PAC 12 from Big 12 leftovers) go to 16 (whenever that may be) and go to a pod structure where pod winners play in semifinal games, that Notre Dame will want/need to join fully to have a competitive resume for a playoff spot. They would be playing two less games than a conference champion at that point. Those two games would be against a high-quality opponent. That's what I think will happen at or near the expiration of the GOR's and will be the one event that could apply pressure to Notre Dame.

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that 4x16 is mostly a message board and blogger fantasy. Reality ever? We shall see.

I don't think that it will happen, for a bunch of reasons.

Besides, I may be dead by 2027 (I would be 70 then) or may have given up on football and/or moved to Ireland for my retirement and won't care.

Where is the cost of living cheaper Ireland or New Zealand? I've been thinking about the trout fishing in New Zealand, but then Ireland has fresh Guinness and beautiful countryside as well.

(06-27-2014 02:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

You're right. It is a done deal and I do think it's totally ND's prerogative on what kind of ACC membership they will have.

I do see the possibility though, that when the SEC, B1G and ACC (and maybe the PAC 12 from Big 12 leftovers) go to 16 (whenever that may be) and go to a pod structure where pod winners play in semifinal games, that Notre Dame will want/need to join fully to have a competitive resume for a playoff spot. They would be playing two less games than a conference champion at that point. Those two games would be against a high-quality opponent. That's what I think will happen at or near the expiration of the GOR's and will be the one event that could apply pressure to Notre Dame.

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that 4x16 is mostly a message board and blogger fantasy. Reality ever? We shall see.

I don't think that it will happen, for a bunch of reasons.

Besides, I may be dead by 2027 (I would be 70 then) or may have given up on football and/or moved to Ireland for my retirement and won't care.

Where is the cost of living cheaper Ireland or New Zealand? I've been thinking about the trout fishing in New Zealand, but then Ireland has fresh Guinness and beautiful countryside as well.

I don't know, JR. They might be pretty close.

The advantage of Ireland to me is that I am already a citizen of the Republic of Ireland and am very familiar with it from my travels there.

Besides, at age 66, all bus and rail travel is completely free for all Irish citizens, with no limits on how far or often you travel.

There are lots of other perks to Irish citizenship as well.

Then, there is the added advantage that Irish citizenship equals citizenship in all the other 26 or so European Union countries, so travel and visiting/staying in those countries is a lot easier.

Also, air fares from Ireland to Britain and the Continent are pretty cheap.

I would love to visit New Zealand. It is on my bucket list. But travel from there to anywhere else is pretty expensive (it is out there all alone in the Pacific).

(06-27-2014 02:57 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 02:52 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 01:29 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 12:27 PM)green Wrote:  special rules for special people ...
resentment will build ...
especially among league cornerstones ...

GET RIGHT OR GET LEFT

The ACC presidents voted them in without football. Done deal.

You're right. It is a done deal and I do think it's totally ND's prerogative on what kind of ACC membership they will have.

I do see the possibility though, that when the SEC, B1G and ACC (and maybe the PAC 12 from Big 12 leftovers) go to 16 (whenever that may be) and go to a pod structure where pod winners play in semifinal games, that Notre Dame will want/need to join fully to have a competitive resume for a playoff spot. They would be playing two less games than a conference champion at that point. Those two games would be against a high-quality opponent. That's what I think will happen at or near the expiration of the GOR's and will be the one event that could apply pressure to Notre Dame.

My opinion (and that is all it is) is that 4x16 is mostly a message board and blogger fantasy. Reality ever? We shall see.

I don't think that it will happen, for a bunch of reasons.

Besides, I may be dead by 2027 (I would be 70 then) or may have given up on football and/or moved to Ireland for my retirement and won't care.

Where is the cost of living cheaper Ireland or New Zealand? I've been thinking about the trout fishing in New Zealand, but then Ireland has fresh Guinness and beautiful countryside as well.

Wait beautiful country side as being unique to Ireland? Have you seen New Zealand's countryside? There is a reason why LOTR movies look so pretty.

(06-27-2014 01:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Ok, so that's
ACC
North
-----
Maryland
UVA
VT
UNC
NCSU
Duke
Wake

South
-----
Clemson
South Carolina
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Florida
Florida State
Miami

That's would be pretty cool. Not as many markets but domination of MD, Va, N.C., S.C., GA, and Fla.

And the SEC would be
SEC
East
-----
Auburn
Alabama
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

West
-----
Missouri
Arkansas
LSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Kansas

The SEC doesn't look the same without Fla, Ga and S.C. but Tex, Okl and Kansas make nice replacements.

And the Big East could look like this:

Boston College
Connecticut
Syracuse
SUNY Buffalo
Rutgers
Temple
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida

Everyone's happy...

(06-27-2014 09:58 PM)NJ2MDTerp Wrote:  

(06-27-2014 01:58 PM)ChrisLords Wrote:  Ok, so that's
ACC
North
-----
Maryland
UVA
VT
UNC
NCSU
Duke
Wake

South
-----
Clemson
South Carolina
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Florida
Florida State
Miami

That's would be pretty cool. Not as many markets but domination of MD, Va, N.C., S.C., GA, and Fla.

And the SEC would be
SEC
East
-----
Auburn
Alabama
Mississippi
Mississippi State
Kentucky
Tennessee
Vanderbilt

West
-----
Missouri
Arkansas
LSU
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Kansas

The SEC doesn't look the same without Fla, Ga and S.C. but Tex, Okl and Kansas make nice replacements.

And the Big East could look like this:

Boston College
Connecticut
Syracuse
SUNY Buffalo
Rutgers
Temple
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Louisville
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida

Everyone's happy...

Preeeeetty sure Penn State would NOT be happy with this..... or Rutgers, this would be like moving your house from Boardwalk to St. Charles place in College Footballopoly.

(06-27-2014 02:02 PM)ringmaster Wrote:  You're right. It is a done deal and I do think it's totally ND's prerogative on what kind of ACC membership they will have.

I do see the possibility though, that when the SEC, B1G and ACC (and maybe the PAC 12 from Big 12 leftovers) go to 16 (whenever that may be) and go to a pod structure where pod winners play in semifinal games, that Notre Dame will want/need to join fully to have a competitive resume for a playoff spot. They would be playing two less games than a conference champion at that point. Those two games would be against a high-quality opponent. That's what I think will happen at or near the expiration of the GOR's and will be the one event that could apply pressure to Notre Dame.

To me ... that is interesting ... and a way to attain a deeper playoff while lining everybody's pockets.

Round of 32:
P4: Conference Divisional Pod Champions
Others: Conference Championships

Round of 16:
P4: Conference Divisional Champions
Others: Inter-Conference Championships (AAC vs CUSA ... MAC vs Sun Belt ... MWC vs Big 12)

Quarterfinals:
Conference Champions (ACC, B1G, Pac-12, SEC, [AAC/CUSA], [MAC/Sun Belt], [MWC/Big 12]) + At Large Chosen By Committee .... Seeds chosen by committee as well.

Semifinals:
Winners from above

Final:
Winners from above