(06-10-2014 08:51 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 11:58 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So do christians believe their god is absolutely omniscient given that experiential knowledge adds value beyond academic knowledge? I would think not.

What?

I dont' get that comment either. I'm not sure what UM's trying to claim here?

Hell dude, every sunrise, sunset, raindrop, child born, animal created, etc. is experiential knowledge that God exists...

(06-10-2014 08:57 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 08:51 PM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 11:58 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So do christians believe their god is absolutely omniscient given that experiential knowledge adds value beyond academic knowledge? I would think not.

What?

I dont' get that comment either. I'm not sure what UM's trying to claim here?

Hell dude, every sunrise, sunset, raindrop, child born, animal created, etc. is experiential knowledge that God exists...

dude, you know I'm cool with you, but there are alternatives.....an open mind is a really neat tool that is readily available...

(06-10-2014 10:36 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  To have perfect knowledge of something, does one have to experience it? Or is an academic knowledge sufficient for a perfect knowledge of something?

To democrats voting for a president, no.

Stink, I don't have problems with people who dont' believe in God. That's their belief system. But I'm still trying to figure out what UM's argument is in terms of the anti-religious aspect with his statement.

(06-10-2014 09:08 PM)DaSaintFan Wrote:  Stink, I don't have problems with people who dont' believe in God. That's their belief system. But I'm still trying to figure out what UM's argument is in terms of the anti-religious aspect with his statement.

that, I agree with bro...and I am of equal respect towards those that do....sometimes there are some things better left to that flushing device...

it's interesting to communicate in text with people scattered across the divide....it provides insight to cultural differences....

having said that, there are those comments that need to be outta sight (his).....including mine at times.....

I've always believed to ignore is foolish....the internutz is a great social behavior 'tool' (pun not intended based on moniker....other pun was intentional)

(06-10-2014 08:24 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So none of you christians want to talk about your god lacking experiential knowledge?

You need to demonstrate that to be true.

(06-10-2014 08:24 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So none of you christians want to talk about your god lacking experiential knowledge? Or is experiential knowledge suddenly not so important?

That would require man to have perfect knowledge of God. Clearly, we don't. Like the Matrix, this could be the 7th or 2358th version of what we refer to as the Universe.

Catholics tried to solve this problem long ago by just going with the "god is mysterious" line of thought. Mormons go with the "philosophies of men can't fathom god" schtick. Some christians went so far as to devise a "total omniscience" versus "inherent omniscience" argument. I'm not surprised that most of you religious righties don't get the issue. Most things are beyond that ilk.

(06-11-2014 09:02 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Catholics tried to solve this problem long ago by just going with the "god is mysterious" line of thought. Mormons go with the "philosophies of men can't fathom god" schtick. Some christians went so far as to devise a "total omniscience" versus "inherent omniscience" argument. I'm not surprised that most of you religious righties don't get the issue. Most things are beyond that ilk.

Again, I'm willing to talk, but I don't think you've clarified your question. It's the equivalent of asking what was the universe like before the Big Bang? Or more appropriately, what experiment can you conduct that proves the Big Bang is the method that created the universe we inhabit today?

(06-10-2014 08:24 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So none of you christians want to talk about your god lacking experiential knowledge? Or is experiential knowledge suddenly not so important?

I don't think God has academic knowledge either. The thinly veiled troll is pretty pointless as Christians believe that He's the creator of literally everything so his knowledge is perfect in all ways. He doesn't have any need our "brand of knowledge."

(06-11-2014 09:07 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 08:24 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So none of you christians want to talk about your god lacking experiential knowledge? Or is experiential knowledge suddenly not so important?

I don't think God has academic knowledge either. The thinly veiled troll is pretty pointless as Christians believe that He's the creator of literally everything so his knowledge is perfect in all ways. He doesn't have any need our "brand of knowledge."

Thank you for pointing out that I forgot to mention the circular logic argument often employed by certain strains of christianity.

(06-11-2014 09:06 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:02 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Catholics tried to solve this problem long ago by just going with the "god is mysterious" line of thought. Mormons go with the "philosophies of men can't fathom god" schtick. Some christians went so far as to devise a "total omniscience" versus "inherent omniscience" argument. I'm not surprised that most of you religious righties don't get the issue. Most things are beyond that ilk.

Again, I'm willing to talk, but I don't think you've clarified your question. It's the equivalent of asking what was the universe like before the Big Bang? Or more appropriately, what experiment can you conduct that proves the Big Bang is the method that created the universe we inhabit today?

Do you believe that god is totally omniscient? Does god, as you believe, have a perfect knowledge of everything? If so, that's a real problem. If not, that's a real problem too.

(06-11-2014 09:07 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 08:24 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So none of you christians want to talk about your god lacking experiential knowledge? Or is experiential knowledge suddenly not so important?

I don't think God has academic knowledge either. The thinly veiled troll is pretty pointless as Christians believe that He's the creator of literally everything so his knowledge is perfect in all ways. He doesn't have any need our "brand of knowledge."

Slightly disagree with this. One line of thought says the Creator put us here so "he" could experience being physical. God needs us as much as vice versa. God may expand be expanding his knowledge thru us.

So this post was to troll people with religious values? Color me surprised.

(06-11-2014 09:14 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  So this post was to troll people with religious values? Color me surprised.

Pretty much.

(06-11-2014 09:09 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:07 AM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-10-2014 08:24 PM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  So none of you christians want to talk about your god lacking experiential knowledge? Or is experiential knowledge suddenly not so important?

I don't think God has academic knowledge either. The thinly veiled troll is pretty pointless as Christians believe that He's the creator of literally everything so his knowledge is perfect in all ways. He doesn't have any need our "brand of knowledge."

Thank you for pointing out that I forgot to mention the circular logic argument often employed by certain strains of christianity.

What's circular about it? God has knowledge of everything. It's only circular if you believe God has to "learn" to gain knowledge. His knowledge is perfect. In other words there is nothing to build, nor improve upon. His knowledge... is.

Quote:Job 37:16
Do you know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5
Great is our Lord and mighty in power; his understanding has no limit.

Job 28:24
For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens.

1 John 3:19-20
By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

Psalm 139:4
Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.

Isaiah 46:9
I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done.

Take note especially of the last verse. Nothing else really needs to be said. No one here can scientifically prove that the Bible is 100% fact for you. However, you can believe now or not but one day you will not have a choice in the matter.

Quote:Romans 14:11
It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'"

(06-11-2014 09:14 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  So this post was to troll people with religious values? Color me surprised.

Not at all. I'm interested in discussion on the topic. Maybe you have something to add?

(06-11-2014 09:14 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  So this post was to troll people with religious values? Color me surprised.

That's about it. Cause, you know, these leftists are all soooo darn smart.

(06-11-2014 09:11 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:06 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:02 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Catholics tried to solve this problem long ago by just going with the "god is mysterious" line of thought. Mormons go with the "philosophies of men can't fathom god" schtick. Some christians went so far as to devise a "total omniscience" versus "inherent omniscience" argument. I'm not surprised that most of you religious righties don't get the issue. Most things are beyond that ilk.

Again, I'm willing to talk, but I don't think you've clarified your question. It's the equivalent of asking what was the universe like before the Big Bang? Or more appropriately, what experiment can you conduct that proves the Big Bang is the method that created the universe we inhabit today?

Do you believe that god is totally omniscient? Does god, as you believe, have a perfect knowledge of everything? If so, that's a real problem. If not, that's a real problem too.

Not really since you're trying to ascribe logical proofs to a deity. That hurdle is overcome for Christians via faith. As faith is belief in absence of proof, such constraints are invalid.

(06-11-2014 09:39 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:11 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:06 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(06-11-2014 09:02 AM)UM2001GRAD Wrote:  Catholics tried to solve this problem long ago by just going with the "god is mysterious" line of thought. Mormons go with the "philosophies of men can't fathom god" schtick. Some christians went so far as to devise a "total omniscience" versus "inherent omniscience" argument. I'm not surprised that most of you religious righties don't get the issue. Most things are beyond that ilk.

Again, I'm willing to talk, but I don't think you've clarified your question. It's the equivalent of asking what was the universe like before the Big Bang? Or more appropriately, what experiment can you conduct that proves the Big Bang is the method that created the universe we inhabit today?

Do you believe that god is totally omniscient? Does god, as you believe, have a perfect knowledge of everything? If so, that's a real problem. If not, that's a real problem too.

Not really since you're trying to ascribe logical proofs to a deity. That hurdle is overcome for Christians via faith. As faith is belief in absence of proof, such constraints are invalid.

When faith crosses into willful ignorance, then it no longer makes you a better person. It makes you a fool.