(06-06-2014 02:16 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:11 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:00 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 09:02 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Reparative "Therapy" doesn't work, isn't supported by any credible medical authority, and is dangerous. Its especially dangerous when applied towards persons that aren't of the age to consent to such treatment and are not in a supportive environment.

This. The suicide rate comparing gays who have undergone reparative therapy vs. not is staggering. It basically just creates a self hate environment.


And everrespect, no love for me? I'm hurt :(

Is there a link? Also, almost 3/4ths of Americans with HIV/AIDS is gay. So reparative therapy might just be saving lives.

Admittedly I don't have one off hand. I know it as a discussion point in a course I took. I could research into it but don't have the time.

As to your statement, 3/4 I believe are new infections... a quick scan of this cdc link says more like 52%:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html

But I'm too short on time to research heavily. I'll look into it more this weekend and get back atcha

I believe the new infections were 78%, or something like that, and overall, it was like 68%. Somewhere along those lines... Even 52% is staggering for such a small group though.

Agreed. Probably for a large # of reasons.

1. Gay populations tend to isolate themselves into more proximal communities and neighborhoods like Chelsea, WEHO, San Francisco... raising risk of exposure
2. I don't doubt that the gay population is probably a little more sexually active in said areas in terms of # of partners
3. Men are more likely than women to abstain from condom use so when a sexual party is both men, there ya go.
4. After 2 decades of sexual self suppression (before coming out) there is probably great relief in sexual exploration, one which probably comes in a flurry and greater risk.

Just generalizing though... not an expert.

(06-06-2014 02:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:20 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point remains - what difference does it make if they're gay?

I still believe it's genetic. That can also be influenced by environment somewhat. I find it very difficult to believe that someone would choose to be gay considering the complications that causes. Some of them probably go out of their way to try not to be, for that reason. Whether that will work long-term or not, I don't know.

Same thing could be said of any other subculture, yet people choose to be white supremacists, swingers, gang members, drug users, goths, cigarette smokers, etc. despite the general social nonacceptance.

Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

Nice strawman, I'm not comparing anything... just saying that people choose to enter into subcultures.

I agree with JD, these are not the same, at all. We know these people had a choice (at least to the extent that we have free will), and drug use/cigarettes are an addiction. We have some understanding of the addiction process. These people can stop doing what they're doing whenever they want, except addicts might require help. I think very few if any people that are actually gay can simply decide not to be. If so they would have done it much sooner.

(06-06-2014 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:20 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point remains - what difference does it make if they're gay?

I still believe it's genetic. That can also be influenced by environment somewhat. I find it very difficult to believe that someone would choose to be gay considering the complications that causes. Some of them probably go out of their way to try not to be, for that reason. Whether that will work long-term or not, I don't know.

Same thing could be said of any other subculture, yet people choose to be white supremacists, swingers, gang members, drug users, goths, cigarette smokers, etc. despite the general social nonacceptance.

Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

Nice strawman, I'm not comparing anything... just saying that people choose to enter into subcultures.

I agree with JD, these are not the same, at all. We know these people had a choice (at least to the extent that we have free will), and drug use/cigarettes are an addiction. We have some understanding of the addiction process. These people can stop doing what they're doing whenever they want, except addicts might require help. I think very few if any people that are actually gay can simply decide not to be. If so they would have done it much sooner.

+1. A rare thing for a person to outright choose to be hated/disliked/legislated against in this world we live in.

(06-06-2014 02:44 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:20 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Same thing could be said of any other subculture, yet people choose to be white supremacists, swingers, gang members, drug users, goths, cigarette smokers, etc. despite the general social nonacceptance.

Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

Nice strawman, I'm not comparing anything... just saying that people choose to enter into subcultures.

I agree with JD, these are not the same, at all. We know these people had a choice (at least to the extent that we have free will), and drug use/cigarettes are an addiction. We have some understanding of the addiction process. These people can stop doing what they're doing whenever they want, except addicts might require help. I think very few if any people that are actually gay can simply decide not to be. If so they would have done it much sooner.

+1. A rare thing for a person to outright choose to be hated/disliked/legislated against in this world we live in.

People who join various subcultures are generally already hated/disliked before they resort to joining, hence finding an alternate group that accepts them.

(06-06-2014 02:50 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:44 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

Nice strawman, I'm not comparing anything... just saying that people choose to enter into subcultures.

I agree with JD, these are not the same, at all. We know these people had a choice (at least to the extent that we have free will), and drug use/cigarettes are an addiction. We have some understanding of the addiction process. These people can stop doing what they're doing whenever they want, except addicts might require help. I think very few if any people that are actually gay can simply decide not to be. If so they would have done it much sooner.

+1. A rare thing for a person to outright choose to be hated/disliked/legislated against in this world we live in.

People who join various subcultures are generally already hated/disliked before they resort to joining, hence finding an alternate group that accepts them.

I don't think gays choose to "join" anything. You're either born gay or you aren't. This isn't some fetish like being into nipple clamps or leather, BDSM, or feet.

You disagree with that and just about every other stance I have on gay rights. I've moved on.

(06-06-2014 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:50 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:44 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Nice strawman, I'm not comparing anything... just saying that people choose to enter into subcultures.

I agree with JD, these are not the same, at all. We know these people had a choice (at least to the extent that we have free will), and drug use/cigarettes are an addiction. We have some understanding of the addiction process. These people can stop doing what they're doing whenever they want, except addicts might require help. I think very few if any people that are actually gay can simply decide not to be. If so they would have done it much sooner.

+1. A rare thing for a person to outright choose to be hated/disliked/legislated against in this world we live in.

People who join various subcultures are generally already hated/disliked before they resort to joining, hence finding an alternate group that accepts them.

I don't think gays choose to "join" anything. You're either born gay or you aren't.

Well, that's already been dismissed as wrong.

k

(06-06-2014 09:02 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Reparative "Therapy" doesn't work, isn't supported by any credible medical authority, and is dangerous. Its especially dangerous when applied towards persons that aren't of the age to consent to such treatment and are not in a supportive environment.

Sounds like Global Warming.

I think the majority however are more or less arguing that they don't care what Christians think as long as legislation stays separate. When you mix religion into law formation it can seem frustrating. That is where things get fuzzy.

"I don't care what you think of me, just don't use the Bible as a tool to legislate against me" is probably the mainly held opinion.

Shrug.
[/quote]


But you agree that they are doing exactly what "THEY" don't want to us that don't accept their lifestyle, right? By the thread of "The gay pride in Wilson high school."

(06-06-2014 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:50 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:44 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 02:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Nice strawman, I'm not comparing anything... just saying that people choose to enter into subcultures.

I agree with JD, these are not the same, at all. We know these people had a choice (at least to the extent that we have free will), and drug use/cigarettes are an addiction. We have some understanding of the addiction process. These people can stop doing what they're doing whenever they want, except addicts might require help. I think very few if any people that are actually gay can simply decide not to be. If so they would have done it much sooner.

+1. A rare thing for a person to outright choose to be hated/disliked/legislated against in this world we live in.

People who join various subcultures are generally already hated/disliked before they resort to joining, hence finding an alternate group that accepts them.

I don't think gays choose to "join" anything. You're either born gay or you aren't. This isn't some fetish like being into nipple clamps or leather, BDSM, or feet.

You disagree with that and just about every other stance I have on gay rights. I've moved on.

Actually, I disagree, for some part... I think some people find the secrecy and instilled wickedness of homosexuality desirable, much like adultery... Some people may find the same sex attractive from a young age, but I think many teens+ find a desire in the wickedness and secrecy of it...

(06-06-2014 12:50 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:44 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 11:54 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Then why don't you ask some people who have gone thru the therapy successfully? Or maybe you "really" aren't that interested.

Those folks likely weren't actually gay. Either that or they're just likely now lying to themselves.

Many people will participate in homosexual activity without being gay.

How many times has Anne Heche swapped her preference? It happens...more than you're willing to even consider.

And I'm well aware that there is no scientific consensus as to the "born" question. But's it's a fair discussion topic as to why straight people don't make a conscience choice to be that way.

Ding, ding, ding, you finally get it! Yet these people are pressured by school psychologists and LGBT activists to come out at an early age and then they are branded for life. This is a major reason why we don't want it in the schools.

Right everyone is born gay or straight and of course even two years olds know when they are transgendered but yet.... "Anne Heche swapped her preference"

And telling kids in school about this only risks opening their mind to the thought of trying it out. That's why people say it's indoctrination.

(06-06-2014 03:42 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  And telling kids in school about this only risks opening their mind to the thought of trying it out. That's why people say it's indoctrination.

On top of that, these high school boys have erections about 45 minutes out of every hour.

(06-06-2014 01:00 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 09:02 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Reparative "Therapy" doesn't work, isn't supported by any credible medical authority, and is dangerous. Its especially dangerous when applied towards persons that aren't of the age to consent to such treatment and are not in a supportive environment.

This. The suicide rate comparing gays who have undergone reparative therapy vs. not is staggering.

Can I see some stats on that... I'm interested in the sample sizes and methodology..

BTW suicide rate for kids from divorce is way higher...

Quote:Using a sample of 6.647 adults, 695 of whose parents had divorced before they were 18, Fuller-Thompson found that men from divorced households were three times as likely to have seriously considered suicide, while women had an 83 percent higher chance of having done the same. --- HuffPo

Should we make divorce mandatory?

(06-06-2014 03:45 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 03:42 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  And telling kids in school about this only risks opening their mind to the thought of trying it out. That's why people say it's indoctrination.

On top of that, these high school boys have erections about 45 minutes out of every hour.

Yep... I've had to pull mine up and use my belt line to keep it there and pull my shirt down to keep it from being noticed before... It seemed I always had a girl sitting in front of me, leaned forward, with her panties showing, or sometimes the very top of her butt crack. When you're 15 to 18, it's hard not to stare at that...

(06-06-2014 03:51 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:00 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 09:02 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Reparative "Therapy" doesn't work, isn't supported by any credible medical authority, and is dangerous. Its especially dangerous when applied towards persons that aren't of the age to consent to such treatment and are not in a supportive environment.

This. The suicide rate comparing gays who have undergone reparative therapy vs. not is staggering.

Can I see some stats on that... I'm interested in the sample sizes and methodology..

BTW suicide rate for kids from divorce is way higher...

Quote:Using a sample of 6.647 adults, 695 of whose parents had divorced before they were 18, Fuller-Thompson found that men from divorced households were three times as likely to have seriously considered suicide, while women had an 83 percent higher chance of having done the same. --- HuffPo

Should we make divorce mandatory?

He said he didn't have time to research right now... I asked the same question.

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:20 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point remains - what difference does it make if they're gay?

I still believe it's genetic. That can also be influenced by environment somewhat. I find it very difficult to believe that someone would choose to be gay considering the complications that causes. Some of them probably go out of their way to try not to be, for that reason. Whether that will work long-term or not, I don't know.

Same thing could be said of any other subculture, yet people choose to be white supremacists, swingers, gang members, drug users, goths, cigarette smokers, etc. despite the general social nonacceptance.

Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

He was not comparing being Gay with being a Klanner... He was saying, quite clearly, that people do choose sometimes to be outcasts. You can put the Monocle back in and see the comment for what it was intended to be.

(06-06-2014 03:54 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:20 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point remains - what difference does it make if they're gay?

I still believe it's genetic. That can also be influenced by environment somewhat. I find it very difficult to believe that someone would choose to be gay considering the complications that causes. Some of them probably go out of their way to try not to be, for that reason. Whether that will work long-term or not, I don't know.

Same thing could be said of any other subculture, yet people choose to be white supremacists, swingers, gang members, drug users, goths, cigarette smokers, etc. despite the general social nonacceptance.

Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

He was not comparing being Gay with being a Klanner... He was saying, quite clearly, that people do choose sometimes to be outcasts. You can put the Monocle back in and see the comment for what it was intended to be.

(06-06-2014 04:00 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 03:54 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 01:20 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-06-2014 12:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The point remains - what difference does it make if they're gay?

I still believe it's genetic. That can also be influenced by environment somewhat. I find it very difficult to believe that someone would choose to be gay considering the complications that causes. Some of them probably go out of their way to try not to be, for that reason. Whether that will work long-term or not, I don't know.

Same thing could be said of any other subculture, yet people choose to be white supremacists, swingers, gang members, drug users, goths, cigarette smokers, etc. despite the general social nonacceptance.

Comparing gays to those things is just wow to me. Shows that we will NEVER agree on this topic on any issue if that is how low regard you hold the gay population.

He was not comparing being Gay with being a Klanner... He was saying, quite clearly, that people do choose sometimes to be outcasts. You can put the Monocle back in and see the comment for what it was intended to be.

Still not the same. If they're a klanner they don't consider themselves to be outcasts. Same with many of the other groups listed. That is, they didn't choose to be outcasts. They chose a group where they fit in, and lots of them I'm sure don't consider themselves outcasts.