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Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-29-2014 02:32 PM)TStatebobcat Wrote:  Playing the what if game. What if Germany had gone strictly east and concentrated all its efforts on Russia. Forget France and England, neither country would've lifted a finger to help Russia. You'd have to think that the Germans would've conquered Russia and with those resources then turn their eyes on the West.
Only if they managed to accomplish it before winter set in. It wasn't the Russians that defeated the Germans. It was the Russian winter. German machinery wasn't built for it. Russian equipment was.
06-29-2014 03:38 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #62
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-28-2014 03:20 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(06-28-2014 08:21 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(06-23-2014 05:27 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote:  
(06-23-2014 05:16 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  He should have settled what
ever else he wanted to before taking on Russia.

Because Stalin was going to wait for Hitler to finish off Britain before he attacked the Nazi's himself?
Stalin would never have attacked Hitler if Germany had not invaded. Stalin was afraid of Hitler. Besides, Hitler had given Stalin 51% of Poland and Stalin took it over under the guise of preventing Hitler from taking all of it over to the world. Stalin, even after Germany attacked, went into a great state of depression for a week. Stalin knew he had killed his best generals before the war just to hold onto power.

Historians disagree on when Stalin planned to attack Germany but they generally agree he was making preparations to do so at some point in the first half of the 1940's; and he was most certainly not "scared" of Hitler. He even interfered with the KPD from cooperating with the SPD from forming an anti-Nazi coalition in the Reichstag in '33.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offe...ontroversy

I've read a lot about Stalin but never read that he was planning on attacking Germany, at least not that I can recall.
06-29-2014 07:24 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
I doubt that Stalin would have ever worked up the nerve to attack Hitler first. Stalin cherished his peace-treaty with the 3d Reich and did nothing to disturb it for two full years (June 39 to June 41).

Lots of interesting comments and speculation here. Can't react to all of it, but in regards to the OP: yes the Axis could have Absolutely won WWII if they had played their cards right. And it really wouldn't have required too much "luck" or "fate" to do so.
07-01-2014 11:58 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
The fact that Stalin refused to allow the Red Army to retaliate when attacked because he didn't believe what was going on sort of shows how he had very little desire to attack himself.

Besides, he was also planning a modernization of the Red Army and he had yet to get around to that. Stalin knew that Bt-7s, I16s, and an inexperienced officer corps meant the Red Army was dead meat.
07-01-2014 01:50 PM
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BIgCatonProwl Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
If Hitler had listen to his generals, may have been a totally different outcome, especially with the superior technology the Germans had developed. In fact there was a debate among the allies if they should attempt to assassinate Hitler. There was one school of thought, it was better not to assassinate Hitler because of the disastrous decisions he was making which made him an asset to the allied cause for victory.
(This post was last modified: 08-13-2015 03:03 PM by BIgCatonProwl.)
07-20-2015 08:03 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
So, almost two years later it appears that we were not able to come to a consensus.
01-09-2018 11:47 PM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #67
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(06-04-2014 02:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The biggest factor in the Axis losing the war was Hitler declaring war on Russia. Had they not tried to fight a war on 2 fronts, they would have conquered all of Europe. The Russian winter decimated their army, and was the beginning of the end for Germany.

But what is neglected is that Hitler *still* has no sources of oil sufficient for a modern war, much as he never did.

The nearest and only sources sufficient are Baku and that region, and the Middle East.

Without an oil source Hitler *never* wins.
01-10-2018 07:37 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #68
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(01-10-2018 07:37 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The biggest factor in the Axis losing the war was Hitler declaring war on Russia. Had they not tried to fight a war on 2 fronts, they would have conquered all of Europe. The Russian winter decimated their army, and was the beginning of the end for Germany.
But what is neglected is that Hitler *still* has no sources of oil sufficient for a modern war, much as he never did.
The nearest and only sources sufficient are Baku and that region, and the Middle East.
Without an oil source Hitler *never* wins.

There was another possible option. In 1935 Persia changed its name to Iran. The best translation of Iran from Farsi is, "empire of the Aryan people." Iran clearly held ambitions to recreate the ancient Persian Empire. In that context, some have seen this as an attempt to curry favor with Hitler, "See, we're Aryan like you, so send us some tanks and Messerschmidts, and we'll meet you at the Bosporus." Had that happened, Hitler could have had his oil. Transporting it would have been a problem, but if he had waited for pipelines, it could have worked.

Those Iranian imperial ambitions may or may not continue to today, but in the minds off most Arab leaders, they are very real.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 08:04 AM by Owl 69/70/75.)
01-10-2018 08:04 AM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
(01-10-2018 07:37 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  
(06-04-2014 02:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The biggest factor in the Axis losing the war was Hitler declaring war on Russia. Had they not tried to fight a war on 2 fronts, they would have conquered all of Europe. The Russian winter decimated their army, and was the beginning of the end for Germany.

But what is neglected is that Hitler *still* has no sources of oil sufficient for a modern war, much as he never did.

The nearest and only sources sufficient are Baku and that region, and the Middle East.

Without an oil source Hitler *never* wins.

Hitler had just about all the oil he needed, in Romania.

However, Ion Antonescu refused to work with Hitler on them much because he wanted greater assistance from the German armaments industry and never got it. Romanian armored united were forced to use homemade variants of captured Soviet equipment or go largely without.

By 1944 the Royal Romanian Air Force, which had done an admirable job defending them, was past the point of exhaustion and continual bombing put them nearly out of action.

On a side note, the Romanian arms industry did manage to throw out some truly spectacular items, including a variant of the Soviet 115mm gun which was considered superior, the IAR 80, the vehicle upon which the famous STUG self propelled gun was based, and the Orita submachine gun. Together, this along with the ability to produce without assistance all of the various requirements to keep a modern army in the field made Romania perhaps Germany's most important ally.

On a further side note, the Romanian military was not considered to be unreliable by the Germans and for a period the entire German 6th Army was placed under Romanian leadership. That didn't happen again as Petre Dumetrescu refused to take orders directly from the German High Command and instead routed his information through Budapest because he felt that the German High Command was being too directly influenced by Hitler who he felt had no real appreciation for the situation on the ground. The same Romanian general had earlier begged for permission to reduce the Soviet pocket from which Operation Uranus was launched. Instead, the German High Command requisitioned almost all of his artillery and heavy equipment, along with that of the Hungarian and Italians, including most of their trucks, to support the German attack on Stalingrad. We all know what happened next.

***For clarification, what is in the fourth paragraph is known as a list. The vehicle upon which the Hetzer, and ultimately the STUG were based on was a Romanian design known as the Maresal***
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2018 12:15 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
01-10-2018 08:32 AM
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tanqtonic Online
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Post: #70
RE: Could the Axis powers have won WWII????
Romanian oil production stacked against the Middle East, US, or Baku region is literally a drop in the bucket. It might have helped, but in no way, shape, or form was it sufficient in the long term to sustain the even the first modern war.
01-10-2018 09:55 AM
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