(06-02-2014 05:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If the Big 10 wanted to spend the money, they could alleviate some of the start date problems by going to going to southern states in the early season and hosting games against teams from other northern conferences.

Or could start building small domes. Could probably build a passable indoor baseball stadium for about 150% of the cost of an indoor football practice field.

You can't be serious. Besides neither of these will help attendance. It's not just about winning and losing games. In February and March apart from the weather, your competing for eyeballs against Basketball, Ice Hockey, and Wrestling. You simply can't grow the sport by spending money. The Big Ten schools are fully funded, have nice facilities, and are starting to pay coaching staffs better. It's not really a money issue. With a Spring/Summer schedule, you'd have competiton from Lacrosse and the Football Spring Game. Growth in baseball on the college level is simply limited by the time of year its played and no amount of Big Ten Bashing will change that.

(06-02-2014 06:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The weather complaint is a red herring.

Well have your west coast team play in Minnesota or Nebraska or Michigan or anywhere in the B1G on opening week... I thought so.

(06-02-2014 06:48 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 06:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  The weather complaint is a red herring.

Well have your west coast team play in Minnesota or Nebraska or Michigan or anywhere in the B1G on opening week... I thought so.

The entire west coast doesn't get San Diego's weather.

Check the weather in Seattle in February. Cold wind and rain, rain, rain. What was Washington's team doing then? Playing a tournament in Arizona -- against Indiana, Nebraska, and Michigan State.

Gotta love Suckeye fans making excuses for their horrid baseball program.

(06-02-2014 06:42 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 05:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If the Big 10 wanted to spend the money, they could alleviate some of the start date problems by going to going to southern states in the early season and hosting games against teams from other northern conferences.

Or could start building small domes. Could probably build a passable indoor baseball stadium for about 150% of the cost of an indoor football practice field.

You can't be serious. Besides neither of these will help attendance. It's not just about winning and losing games. In February and March apart from the weather, your competing for eyeballs against Basketball, Ice Hockey, and Wrestling. You simply can't grow the sport by spending money. The Big Ten schools are fully funded, have nice facilities, and are starting to pay coaching staffs better. It's not really a money issue. With a Spring/Summer schedule, you'd have competiton from Lacrosse and the Football Spring Game. Growth in baseball on the college level is simply limited by the time of year its played and no amount of Big Ten Bashing will change that.

Absolutely serious.

Competition with wrestling? There are what 80 schools that even have wrestling? The other 200 Division I baseball schools just have to sit around and wait for wrestling to get done? Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Arizona State, Stanford, Cal Poly, and a smattering of ACC teams are able to field competitive baseball in the early spring despite wrestling.

As Wedge noted, if schedule is an issue, it starts before college.

In 2012, there were 1017 US born players to appear in an MLB game. 150 were from states with a Big 10 team (less than 15%). If you add New Jersey and Maryland, it climbs to 179. Texas had 116 and California had 219. The state of North Carolina had 25 while New York with more than double the population had 20. Wisconsin with about a million more in population than Alabama had 7 players appear in the bigs vs. 19 from Alabama.

Baseball post-season is now after school is out. Most schools are now in their summer term. So if you are a baseball player, you have to enroll fall and spring to be eligible but if you are on a good team you have to play almost completely through the first summer term and if you push the season back any more you would have to play into the second summer term.

Pushing the season back means kids who are MOSTLY not receiving a full ride scholarship are obligated to finish the regular season in the second summer term and have to give up participating in the elite summer leagues where they face even higher competition to bolster their chances at a pro career. You can't push it back without hurting the players.

Attendance? Come on, there were six programs to average more than 5,000 per game in the last records available on the NCAA website. Only 32 averaged more than 2,000 and 1,211 put you in the top 50.

Baseball is a revenue sport at a tiny smattering of schools.

I've read just about everything Delany has said on the topic and my all-time favorite is going to a true regional format in order to guarantee a northern team makes the CWS. I like to hope that the CUSA, Sun Belt and MWC commissioners have pointed out the inconsistent logic being applied to baseball and football.

(06-02-2014 05:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  If the Big 10 wanted to spend the money, they could alleviate some of the start date problems by going to going to southern states in the early season and hosting games against teams from other northern conferences.

Or could start building small domes. Could probably build a passable indoor baseball stadium for about 150% of the cost of an indoor football practice field.

ND baseball always plays it first 17 games or so in Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and California.

It hosts an Irish Classic in North Carolina and in San Antonio every year.

I am a fan of a Northern college baseball team and I am not in favor of a separate, summer season.

Paul Mainieri took ND to multiple regionals and to the College World Series. Nebraska and other Northern schools have been good.

It can be done.

[/quote]
The entire west coast doesn't get San Diego's weather.
Check the weather in Seattle in February. Cold wind and rain, rain, rain. What was Washington's team doing then? Playing a tournament in Arizona -- against Indiana, Nebraska, and Michigan State.
[/quote]
I'm not going to downplay that it gets inclement in the upper reaches of the Pac12. And the math holds within the conference. Check out the stats on cws appearances and championships by pure latitude in the Pac:
South
Arizona 16/4
Arizona State 22/5
USC 21/12
UCLA 5/1
Cal 6/2
Stanford 16/2

North
Colorado. 1/0
Utah 1/0
Oregon 1/0
Oregon State 5/2
Wazzu 4/0
UDub 0/0
So even within conference it's overwhelmingly tilted toward the southern schools.

[/quote]
ND baseball always plays it first 17 games or so in Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and California.
[/quote]
Why is this okay?

ND baseball always plays it first 17 games or so in Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and California.
[/quote]
Why is this okay?
[/quote]

Because the alternative is to ask a kid on 1/3rd of a scholarship to stay in school year around.

[quote='quo vadis' pid='10794962' dateline='1401499599']
SWAC champ Jackson State, arguably the #64 team in the NCAA baseball tournament, beat national #6 seed UL-Lafayette in their regional matchup, 1-0.

And the Ragin' Cajuns come back to take 2 from Mississippi ST to win the Regional and advance to the Super Regional vs. Ole Miss in Lafayette

***Competition with wrestling?

I haven't seen recent stats, but wrestling was the third most watched sport on Big Ten Network. http://www.win-magazine.com/2011/11/can-...wrestling/
Full disclosure, I'm biased as a former wrestler and if you don't understand wrestling in the midwest, I can't explain it to ya.

Either way March Madness crowds out any possible interest in baseball until it's over except for the deadhards.

***Pushing the season back means kids who are MOSTLY not receiving a full ride scholarship are obligated to finish the regular season in the second summer term and have to give up participating in the elite summer leagues where they face even higher competition to bolster their chances at a pro career. You can't push it back without hurting the players.

I could be wrong, but I fully expect that with the push for autonomy that the P5 will add more schollies. MLB has even brought up possibly funding a scholarship. If schools see that they can turn a profit they'll commit resources.

***Attendance? Come on, there were six programs to average more than 5,000 per game in the last records available on the NCAA website. Only 32 averaged more than 2,000 and 1,211 put you in the top 50.

Exactly my point, those are lousy numbers. The name brands of some of these institutions suggest they should easily outdraw minor league teams.

***Baseball is a revenue sport at a tiny smattering of schools.

It would be at more if half of the country didn't have to play the first third of the season on the road. No reason that baseball shouldn't be a revenue sport, but you have to do what is right for everybody, not just those below the Mason Dixon Line.

***I've read just about everything Delany has said on the topic and my all-time favorite is going to a true regional format in order to guarantee a northern team makes the CWS.

It was that way prior to 1984ish. I am in agreement with you on this point. I don't agree with affirmative action for northern schools. The college world series must be earned the same as the final four, I just don't think its fair or financially astute for the northern half of the country to play baseball in February and March. Knowing that the those that are blessed with good weather will not change the system that provides an unfair and continuing advantage, I support secession. (An Ohio boy talking secession, LOL!!!)

(06-02-2014 08:47 PM)slowknight Wrote:  Gotta love Suckeye fans making excuses for their horrid baseball program.

Two words for you, then I expect silence... Julie Herman

(06-02-2014 10:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:27 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

ND baseball always plays it first 17 games or so in Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and California.

Why is this okay?
[/quote]

Because the alternative is to ask a kid on 1/3rd of a scholarship to stay in school year around.
[/quote]

Good point, so why not reduce the season by 17 games instead to remove the geographic advantage?

(06-02-2014 10:35 PM)swampbear Wrote:  And the Ragin' Cajuns come back to take 2 from Mississippi ST to win the Regional and advance to the Super Regional vs. Ole Miss in Lafayette

College of Charleston knocks off Long Beach State 4-2 and advances to the Super Regional vs Texas Tech.

(06-02-2014 11:55 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:27 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

ND baseball always plays it first 17 games or so in Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and California.

Why is this okay?

Because the alternative is to ask a kid on 1/3rd of a scholarship to stay in school year around.
[/quote]

Good point, so why not reduce the season by 17 games instead to remove the geographic advantage?
[/quote]

We'll agree to do that for baseball when you agree that Ohio State's financial advantage in football must be reduced by having the Buckeyes play 12 road games a year, with all game-day proceeds distributed to MAC football programs. Because we know that you are all about removing those "unfair" advantages wherever they exist.

(06-03-2014 01:21 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 11:55 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:28 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-02-2014 10:27 PM)Big Ron Buckeye Wrote:  

ND baseball always plays it first 17 games or so in Florida, North Carolina, Texas, Louisiana and California.

Why is this okay?

Because the alternative is to ask a kid on 1/3rd of a scholarship to stay in school year around.

Good point, so why not reduce the season by 17 games instead to remove the geographic advantage?
[/quote]

We'll agree to do that for baseball when you agree that Ohio State's financial advantage in football must be reduced by having the Buckeyes play 12 road games a year, with all game-day proceeds distributed to MAC football programs. Because we know that you are all about removing those "unfair" advantages wherever they exist.
[/quote]

I'm not a socialist so clearly we will not agree on how to proceed, which is exactly why breaking away from the current system makes sense for Northern schools. It's not even like we'd be missed anyway.

Big Ron, cutting the number of games is inconsistent with your stated goal of improving revenue, that would mean a number of schools losing 9 to 14 home games.

Shifting the season isn't going to be an attendance boon. I've not been to all or even a majority of warm climate schools but at many of these schools who draw well, the ratio of students at games is very high. So when you see a school has attendance of 2000, there are 500 to 1000 at the game who aren't paying or paying a nominal entry fee because they are students. Stretching the season past the end of the spring semester is going to reduce attendance across the south and southwest and may do little to help northern schools.

There has been little talk of anyone wanting to add more full rides in baseball. Every scholarship added means another women's sport grant that has to be added. Baseball just doesn't generate enough interest that many P5 are going to be pushing to increase rides.

But changing the college season is not going to fix the underlying advantage of warm weather schools.

In Arkansas we have youth team tryouts in February and generally have the first tournaments during the week before spring break in March. Regular season ends in early June and all-star teams are in full swing by July 4 and they will wrap up the weekend before Labor Day. Then fall baseball for the more harcore kids will run September to first of November. That is nothing compared to places in Florida, along the gulf coast, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and southern California where youth baseball goes the entire year without that November, December, January, February break that we have.

That difference is reflected in the MLB numbers I posted earlier. You aren't going to fix that at age 18 and you can't fix the weather for Minnesota, Michigan, and Ohio to help produce more ready to play Division I baseball kids coming out of high school.

(06-03-2014 09:19 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  There has been little talk of anyone wanting to add more full rides in baseball. Every scholarship added means another women's sport grant that has to be added. Baseball just doesn't generate enough interest that many P5 are going to be pushing to increase rides.

... you can't fix the weather for Minnesota, Michigan, and Ohio to help produce more ready to play Division I baseball kids coming out of high school.

Those are the two issues there. The talent pool is always going to be much deeper in places where kids develop their skills playing travel ball on year-round teams. You only have 11.7 scholarship equivalents to divide up among 25 players, so good luck getting elite players from Florida or California to play college baseball in Minnesota when their families will have to pay 75% of their college costs to play up there. Those kids can stay nearby and -- as we see this year -- they don't need to play baseball at a football factory; you can advance in the NCAA tournament at places closer to home whether that's Pepperdine or UL-Lafayette or College of Charleston.

A coach who wants to build a baseball program in a place outside those talent pools has to work his azz off to find talented players, like the coaches at Oregon State and Indiana have done. It's not like coaching football at Ohio State where 5-star kids send you their videotapes and beg you to offer them a scholarship and all you have to do is compete with a small handful of other power programs for the best kids while the other 120 FBS teams make do with 2 and 3 star players.

(05-30-2014 08:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  SWAC champ Jackson State, arguably the #64 team in the NCAA baseball tournament, beat national #6 seed UL-Lafayette in their regional matchup, 1-0.

What a shocker!

Posted from my mobile device using the CSNbbs App

Where you at today?

Geaux Cajuns!

The Miss State connection may prove to be sadly prophetic since that's the most likely destination for the FB coach after another big year.