THAT IS YOUR DECISION!!!!! AND you are entitled to it. No one is telling you not to have a kid. It's the part about you forcing your ideals onto others. If you want a Down's kid fine. Knock yourself out. If you want a kid in a wheel chair and 24 hour nursing care. I get it. It's the part about you FORCING IT UPON OTHERS!!!!!

(05-27-2014 09:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  THAT IS YOUR DECISION!!!!! AND you are entitled to it. No one is telling you not to have a kid. It's the part about you forcing your ideals onto others. If you want a Down's kid fine. Knock yourself out. If you want a kid in a wheel chair and 24 hour nursing care. I get it. It's the part about you FORCING IT UPON OTHERS!!!!!

My point is murder shouldn't be allowed. Period. And that should be forced upon others like every other law.

(05-27-2014 09:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  THAT IS YOUR DECISION!!!!! AND you are entitled to it. No one is telling you not to have a kid. It's the part about you forcing your ideals onto others. If you want a Down's kid fine. Knock yourself out. If you want a kid in a wheel chair and 24 hour nursing care. I get it. It's the part about you FORCING IT UPON OTHERS!!!!!

Should it then be OK to euthanize the kid in the first few days, weeks, or months after birth? You have no problem aborting them before birth, why not after birth?

(05-27-2014 09:48 AM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(05-27-2014 09:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  THAT IS YOUR DECISION!!!!! AND you are entitled to it. No one is telling you not to have a kid. It's the part about you forcing your ideals onto others. If you want a Down's kid fine. Knock yourself out. If you want a kid in a wheel chair and 24 hour nursing care. I get it. It's the part about you FORCING IT UPON OTHERS!!!!!

Should it then be OK to euthanize the kid in the first few days, weeks, or months after birth? You have no problem aborting them before birth, why not after birth?

Because that would be murder. Oh, wait.........

You can deny treatment. My family was given that option. Not everyone views death the same way. Some cultures weed out the weak. That this position comes out of the GOP is the very definition of irony. That this same group of people then march and ***** about Obamacare is the VERY definition of irony. You guys have it totally back asswards, but I do support your right to voice your opinions on these matters. I understand where you are coming from and can respect the position. Don't agree with it, but understand your rational.

It's called "THE GREY AREA". Yeah it's this!

(05-27-2014 09:20 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'm sooo thankful the political calculus has turned on this. For years the group think of the GOP dominated in this arena. Thankfully that time has passed. I can understand and respect the GOP's position on this. If it costs you votes so be it, I can actually appreciate the effort. Now I would suggest a little compassion on your part. Understand that this is not an easy decision for those involved. It's not like going to the Dentist for these people. Sometimes chromosomal abnormalities take place. Sometimes they already have two kids and they are a single mother. Sometimes the carrying capacity for a household is 2 kids not 3. I get that and I understand that you don't. There is a grey area here and the answer is not. I know better than you. The irony that this position emanates from the party of small government does not escape me either.

It's not the child's fault that his single mother was too selfish with her lustful desires and spread her legs and risked pregnancy. It's not the child's fault that he's got downs. It's also not the child's fault that his single mother lives in a two room shack. Absolutely NONE of that is acceptable for abortion. Responsibility needs to be learned.

Think about this. YOU WANT to force a person who knows they have a kid who has a chromosomal abnormality to have that kid. FORCE not choice and the sickest thing is you have you have won 20 months out. You have succeeded in the 20 months arena. Sometimes parents don't find out that there is a problem until after that? You guys haven't thought that one through. Matter of fact in one of your va jay jay probe bills you wanted to outlaw an amnioscentisis because people who have a greater knowledge of what's in store for them overwhemingly choose to abort. Then once people who find themselves in this terrible predicament and they run out of insurance you want to bankrupt them. Sorry folks you are on your own............. It's laughable if it wasn't so serious. It's TOTALLY back asswards of rational thought.

In the first century and a half or so of this republic, we had a common law approach to abortion. OK in the first trimester, after that where justified in exceptional cases such as health of the prospective mother, rape, incest. Since that's what we started with, there's a strong argument that it is the "conservative" or "intent of the founders" approach. After all, it was going on then, they certainly knew it, if they felt a need to address it they had a piece of paper in front of them where they could have written it.

Basically, you recognize that the unborn baby has rights, and so does the mother, and you weigh those rights. First trimester, the rights of the mother prevail. After that, you're close enough to birth that the baby's rights prevail unless there is a compelling reason otherwise.

Sorry, but I fail to see what's wrong with that.

Those of you from Alabama may appreciate my brother's comment about Mountain Brook, "Everybody in Mountain Brook is opposed to abortion until it's their daughter who's pregnant."

Birth control pills cost $4. If you have insurance you can now get it for free or less than $20/month. Both options are 99.9% effective. If the woman doesn't want to do that it's her problem. Or she can at least have the guy wear a condom, about .50 each. The personal responsibility decisions made before having sex are being glossed over. As said before, the baby can't help it if their mom is irresponsible and selfish
As for the rape, incest life of mother argument, they are very solid. However, depending on whom you listen to, is about 10% of all abortions performed

Further proof that greed is a root of evil.

(05-25-2014 09:35 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Any Catholic who has an abortion or supports abortion rights should be excommunicated. Yes this means you Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden etc. I don't care if you say you are personally against abortion...you should not support "a women's right to choose" if you are a Catholic. Your faith does not allow you to equivocate or justify any other position than pro-life.

I'm not a Catholic but I would think this is the reasonable thing to do. My Grandfather married a divorced woman and was excommunicated.

I would say if someone had an abortion but was repentant and had turned away then they would not be kicked out... But it's your church.

(05-27-2014 09:20 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  It's not like going to the Dentist for these people. Sometimes chromosomal abnormalities take place. Sometimes they already have two kids and they are a single mother. Sometimes the carrying capacity for a household is 2 kids not 3. I get that and I understand that you don't. There is a grey area here and the answer is not. I know better than you. The irony that this position emanates from the party of small government does not escape me either.

To say this, while we have "my totally awesome abortion experience" coming out from the left is laughable...

What's even more laughable is that the situations you sited are examples of Abortion as Birth control... These are the lowest common denominator of reasons... You're not talking birth defects, rape, incest..

You've moved the goal post to "well they already have their boy and girl..

(05-27-2014 09:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  The only instance I can think of where it is ok is if there is no chance for either the mother or child to survive, such as a fallopian tube pregnancy. The child having Downs Syndrome is not a justification to abort nor is finance or selfishness.

This... When a life will end regardless then it's up to the mother and the doctor..

(05-27-2014 10:04 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Think about this. YOU WANT to force a person who knows they have a kid who has a chromosomal abnormality to have that kid.

No Mach... That would be raping them... Having them carry the child to term is not "forcing them to have a baby"...

Nice way to try and own the language...

What we are saying is that a human being with a birth defect is no less a human being than one without... You know, the compassionate view of humanity...

First of all I'm not moving ANYTHING. I think and I believe with my whole heart that a persons family knows a hell of a lot more about this subject and decision then a govt. official. That we even have laws at 20 months disgusts me. You are advocating a position that states you know better for a family than themselves. That's bs.

(05-27-2014 10:25 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Further proof that greed is a root of evil.

And one of the Seven Deadly Sins.

Wrath
Greed
Sloth
Pride
Lust
Envy
Gluttony

(05-27-2014 10:33 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  First of all I'm not moving ANYTHING. I think and I believe with my whole heart that a persons family knows a hell of a lot more about this subject and decision then a govt. official. That we even have laws at 20 months disgusts me. You are advocating a position that states you know better for a family than themselves. That's bs.

No, we are advocating that terminating a pregnancy is immoral and there should be laws to protect against it, just like there are laws against robbery for instance even though it might be better for my family to pull off a $5 million bank heist.

A bank heist is someone else's property. This is none of your business. Your sticking your nose into someone else's private matter.

(05-27-2014 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A bank heist is someone else's property. This is none of your business. Your sticking your nose into someone else's private matter.

Someone else's life is also someone else's property.

(05-27-2014 10:49 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  A bank heist is someone else's property. This is none of your business. Your sticking your nose into someone else's private matter.

That private matter happens to be another human being. What about that human beings "private matter"?