(05-08-2014 05:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote: This is especially true in regards to naturalistic atheism, which on one hand wants to assume that nothing exists outside of the material world, and then on the other hand wants to assign qualitative values to things like human reason, ethics, love, hate, beauty, free will, etc., as if these things were somehow exempt from the impersonal laws of nature.
You sound like you just got out of Seminary 101 and have set off to change the world with a copy of the Bible in one hand and a copy of Lewis' Mere Christianity in the other.......
I know plenty of people who don't believe in god who behave very nicely, and am aware of a bunch of people who at least claim to strongly believe in salvation who sure don't act like anyone is watching.
You know damn well that atheists can be moral (of which I am distilling your examples for ease of posting and typing, I could just of easily typed ethics etc etc...) and so it's demonstrably untrue that one needs belief in a deity to be moral. I believe Man invented God, and in doing so, gave Him all our attributes, including our sense of human morality. So in using your absolute logic, then God. Is. Dead.
Even as far back as The Republic, Plato suggests that we should be just not because a deity or scripture commands it but because unjust behavior causes internal disharmony. In practice, for most people the true answer to "where does your sense of right and wrong come from?" is "my parents and my peers" and other aspects of how I was raised. Hell, as our ancestors sense of morality was beneficial to survival, it can be seen as a product of scientific evolution. The rules are there because they work for large groups of near-strangers living together.
Now I'm not debating how atheists measure or come about to their morality as I think most atheists, given their moral similarity to theists, are shaped by fundamentally religious moral beliefs by a human society that puts great importance on religion.
But there is zero reason that morality cannot be based off of reason, human solidarity, the desire to limit suffering, the desire to conform with social norms, enjoying natural beauty, falling in love, sheer pragmatism or utilitarianism, a belief in the fundamental equality of all individuals, or avoiding negative consequences.
However I imagine that for people like you who have been raised with religion, it becomes very hard to separate one's own individual personal development and moral growth from all that powerful religious training. You simply can't imagine encountering and learning to practice those values outside a religious context or without religious training. As such, God. Is. Alive. So in imagining your life without the structure provided by religious tradition and authority, you'd clearly imagine a life without any moral guidance at all.
And, I am genuinely happy to say, you'd be wrong.
Personally, I find my lack of faith to be liberating. This is not meant to be a slight towards believers. I have no wondering why a god's plan is screwing me. There is no wondering what I did wrong, why I deserved it, why my prayers weren't answered, etc. Everything that happens in my life is the result of the actions I've taken prior to this moment, with a healthy amount of randomness thrown in.
Anywho............