(04-23-2014 01:06 PM)Redwingtom Wrote: Dude, I get all that...but you made the comparison of a brand new website, law and procedure to a time-tested government practice under way for years, not me.
I also compared it to Wal-Mart first, and only after that a government operation that similarly uses the internet.
All of these things may be new to the government, but they aren't by any means 'new'. Which was my point. If you were starting IRS e-file today, it wouldn't need all of the years of testing and trouble shooting that it needed before. The IRS is FAR FAR more complex than signing up for insurance.
If you 'get all that', then why do you still think it takes weeks and months and years for the government to do something that private industry can do in a few hours?
Quote:And I don't know what you guys are bitching to me about anyway...I've never claimed that the ACA website or rollout was perfect...in fact I've said it was far from it. And I'm not the one doubting the numbers they're releasing about it now...you guys are. Everything is a ******* conspiracy with you guys.
And everything is an excuse with you guys.
People are responding to you because you are constantly defending the indefensible.
Your side has chosen to paint signing 8mm people up (out of the 40+mm you originally told us would be helped) as an accomplishment. It's not. First, because the number isn't really 8mm, and when we point that out, you say... well, they're still counting. Unless their estimates are off by 500%, they haven't reached any meaningful goal.
Not to mention that 'signing up' for insurance isn't the same as being covered... and being covered isn't the same as getting care.
So you've picked the most 'loose' definition of improving healthcare possible... and the most meaningless of definitions of 'success'... and then given the most lenient time frame for response/reporting possible and you don't have a problem with this and in fact, chastise those who do.
No conspiracy theory... just pointing out the obvious lies and spin that you're being fed and obviously believe and repeat.
Quote:The only point I've been trying to make about the ACA is that I think you need to wait a little longer before claiming it a failure.
And the only point most of us have made about the ACA is that, no we don't. It can't possibly do what it is designed to do which is to provide MORE healthcare, BETTER healthcare and LESS EXPENSIVE healthcare. Almost nothing within the ACA accomplishes ANY of these goals in any way, and that has been pointed out numerous times... Yet your side keeps pointing to these meaningless thresholds as accomplishments.
If you don't like being linked to the ACA then don't defend it. Your responses don't address the REAL complaints about the ACA.
'Signing people up' isn't a meaningful goal of the ACA. Improving healthcare is. It (signing people up) is a method, not a goal (improving healthcare). You could just decide to offer free healthcare to everyone with an ID or passport or just everyone who walks through your door and not require ANYONE to sign up for anything... which is how ED's work today. I'm only using that as another method to accomplish the goal... and not saying it is a better method.
Quote:And incidentally, your side has been calling it a failure for over a year now!
Right. Because it is.
You've increased demand without increasing supply. In the REAL world, this results in price increases... and you have prohibited price increases and in fact, tried to artificially decrease prices.
This has never in the history of the world worked... and this isn't different.
You're acting as if this is a baseball game and you want to wait until the game is over to determine the winner, but it's not a baseball game. First because it isn't a game... and second (and most importantly) because the goals you set out to accomplish aren't the ones you're using to measure your success.
If you aren't increasing the number of providers of healthcare... which the ACA doesn't (because it doesn't fund additional residency slots and you can't be a doctor without one).. and you are decreasing the reimbursements for primary care which also discourages that practice, then you can not possibly provide MORE preventative healthcare, which is a requirement of the cost savings that the ACA promised. Further, it does nothing to encourage healthy living... it simply assumes that everyone wants to be healthy, when the obvious evidence suggests that everyone wants to eat tasty foods and exercise as little as possible.
THIS is why it is a failure already... because it honestly makes no attempts to do anything other than to shuffle money around.