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Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #1
Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...-interview

Quote:The actual money is never collected in a single area, but a collective of shadow boosters keeps an unwritten counter on how much each of them can contribute in cash at any given moment for three major purposes:

1.Large single sums to be paid out in order to convince a recruit to sign with the school.
2.Maintenance payments to current players, delivered in an ongoing basis.
3.Cash owed by an out-of-area shadow booster to a bag man living in the college town. Sometimes a player whose sponsor lives back at home needs money immediately, so a local bag man not assigned to that player will pay the player, with a marker going to his booster back home.
The small business fuels America. Cash that doesn't have to be accounted for exists in any variety of ways. Sell a pair of lower bowl tickets to a guy you know from church? Cash. Sell a bass boat on Craigslist? Cash. Run or own a restaurant? Cash. Work in agriculture? Lots of cash.

"We all do different things. Finding liquid capital is not a problem for any of us. If it was, we wouldn't be doing this."
04-10-2014 11:24 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
I'll post more later. This is a fun read so far.

Quote:The most common non-cash gifts to recruits are cars. In every major city inside the Southeastern Conference's footprint is a tangle of auto dealerships with varying ties to particular schools.

"There are jokes about kids getting cars, but that's actually pretty easy. We all have dealerships all over. You practically have to nowadays, anyway, just for the coaches. Think about it. Most schools, all the football, basketball, and baseball coaches and their wives are getting some kind of vehicle for free as part of their contract. Then they're turning them in every three years or so. That's a fleet right there. You need a lot of guys with dealerships, and you need them in different towns. Then getting a clean title on a member of the family is pretty easy."

Whatever the minimum of necessary paperwork to absolve a player of improper benefits received is, it's not a problem. A title for a moderately priced SUV can be created in a relative's name, as can a receipt of sale for a reasonable price.

"Hey, how'd he get that ride? His uncle bought it. How did his uncle buy it? Paid cash. Paid cash, how'd he do that? ****, we don't know, but here's the receipt where he paid cash, and now y'all ain't got ****. Go tell the NCAA you think we're cheating because this kid's uncle bought him a used Tahoe in cash, you racist."
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2014 11:26 AM by CommuterBob.)
04-10-2014 11:25 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
And here's the moral relativism explained:

Quote:"We can only get away with whatever's considered reasonable by the majority of the folks in our society. That's why it's different in the SEC. Maybe that's why we're able to be more active in what we do. Because no one ever looks at the car or the jewelry and says, 'How did you get that, poor football player?' They say, 'How did they get you that and not get caught, poor football player?'"
04-10-2014 11:30 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
Perhaps Ohio State can give us all a seminar on recruiting ethics and set us straight.
04-10-2014 11:36 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
And here's how they don't get caught:

Quote:If you believe any of this happens with the frequency and level of organization described, you might assume that such practices surely couldn't go entirely unnoticed, that surely someone not involved in a conspiracy to illegally funnel money to college-aged athletes would expose the plot. It's happened before, after all.

"It happens, yeah, but now we start to ask, ‘Who would do that?' You try your damnedest to take care of everyone involved for a long as you can. Look at where we live. Look at how much everyone cares. Think about how much of a pariah any one of us would become if we spoke out, especially with no real evidence.


What's most surprising about this article is the fact that it's typically the guys who donate in the low 5 figures to a program that are these bagmen. It's not the super fat cats, but the guys with enough scratch to invest $10K-$15K to pay these players and recruits.
04-10-2014 11:40 AM
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CommuterBob Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 11:36 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Perhaps Ohio State can give us all a seminar on recruiting ethics and set us straight.

Your anger needs to be taken out on the writer of the article, 10th. He only looked at bagmen associated with the SEC. There's no doubt this goes on elsewhere.
04-10-2014 11:41 AM
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Ghis Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
The SEC is behind the times. The SWC was doing this crap over 30 years ago.
04-10-2014 12:04 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 11:25 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  I'll post more later. This is a fun read so far.

Quote:The most common non-cash gifts to recruits are cars. In every major city inside the Southeastern Conference's footprint is a tangle of auto dealerships with varying ties to particular schools.

"There are jokes about kids getting cars, but that's actually pretty easy. We all have dealerships all over. You practically have to nowadays, anyway, just for the coaches. Think about it. Most schools, all the football, basketball, and baseball coaches and their wives are getting some kind of vehicle for free as part of their contract. Then they're turning them in every three years or so. That's a fleet right there. You need a lot of guys with dealerships, and you need them in different towns. Then getting a clean title on a member of the family is pretty easy."

Whatever the minimum of necessary paperwork to absolve a player of improper benefits received is, it's not a problem. A title for a moderately priced SUV can be created in a relative's name, as can a receipt of sale for a reasonable price.

"Hey, how'd he get that ride? His uncle bought it. How did his uncle buy it? Paid cash. Paid cash, how'd he do that? ****, we don't know, but here's the receipt where he paid cash, and now y'all ain't got ****. Go tell the NCAA you think we're cheating because this kid's uncle bought him a used Tahoe in cash, you racist."

So tell me something I haven't known for 40 plus years. I'd say the article is accurate except for a few important details. I've lived all over the country and I know outright that it goes on around campuses of the Big 10, ACC, and the old SWC and now in the Big 12. All I can say is that I recognized some of the situations described but a few details were left out and one point made was sensationalized and misrepresented. The bit describing the recruit on the phone seeking $70,000 where the bag man responded "We don't do that." and hung up is not how the game is played.

If a coach, or bag man, down here gets the goods on someone else what the recruiting world sees is a flip. The school that gets caught simply backs off and the one that caught them gets the kid. If a coach or booster tries to entrap another school down here, and costs them bowl eligibility, that comes out of everyone's pocket because all bowl proceeds are shared and a school on probation isn't making everyone in the conference more money. That's putting ego before business and the one who would do that is going to suffer isolation and get nailed the first time they slip up.

The second problem I see with the article is it didn't go past what has been known for decades. So it may be new news to the average reader, but it is old hat, outdated, and although still used it has been bypassed in bigger cases by more sophisticated approaches now in use. With some states the recruiting perks could even be coming from within the state government depending upon where representatives went to law school and in states where 1 university provides the bulk of the lawyers you can rest assured that the State House and Senate are filled with a preponderance of their alumni. You won't find anyone hankering to subpoena one of them.

The third problem here is that the article is sanitized in that it doesn't report other sleaze that has infiltrated the process, like some (far from all) schools that provide women to recruits, or like in the Sunshine state, and in a few others I know, where local law enforcement runs shotgun over problem kids, and due process is subverted with the late night call to certain coaches who step in to handle the problem in private, or as with the abandoning of the easy courses for no courses at all which has cropped up publicly with one prominent ACC school.

What the article described well was the ties to local coaches and how they are initially made and how fundamentally important they are, and how they are sustained over a long duration. If you are looking for the non college campus "Bag Man" you need look no farther than your local touchdown club for the prominent high schools in your county or town, or city.

I have never been involved in illegal recruiting, but I did report it for a couple of decades, but always to the school president so that it could be handled internally (all but two gave up on the prospects). If they refused (as they did twice) to deal with it then it was passed along to those who would start enforcement proceedings.

I would love to see it cleaned up and I hope that full cost of tuition scholarships and a living stipend will help. But as long as mom lives in poverty or the kids want bling I have a hunch the problem will remain.

Face it guys U.S.C. was giving away cars and condos. Ohio State basically copped a plea under Tressel to avoid some real gory details, or did you really think it was about selling jerseys and free tattoos?

This article is a drama set in the South where the culture and story is more readily believable in part due to the recent success of the SEC. But, whether you want to believe it or not it is happening at a school near you.

But look on the bright side, it is still nowhere near as sleazy as those guys and gals you vote for every four years and I don't care which party they represent. Compared to State and National politics football recruiting is a cheap bribe, uh excuse me, a cheap lobbying effort.

P.S. And one other erroneous aspect to this story is this, Bag Men love to brag. They are just careful about to whom they brag. The reason they don't get caught is because of the lack of evidence, the plausible deniability, and the shunning that would occur, and more importantly the culture I described where schools don't rat each other out because of the bottom line, and because a coach who does gig another program isn't going to be part of the coaching fraternity for very long. The way this guy writes you would think these guys were the profile of personality that the NSA or CIA would be looking for and that simply isn't so in the majority of cases.

That alone is why it will be interesting to see what happens at Alabama now that Kiffin is on board. I can't think of anyone who offended the coaching fraternity of the South more than Kiffin did in a couple of years time. Another red flag that should be noted are the number of former coaches who were too old to place elsewhere who were kept on payroll after retirements, firings, and etc., by their former schools. They are kept on the payroll to keep their mouths shut.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2014 01:01 PM by JRsec.)
04-10-2014 12:43 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 12:04 PM)Ghis Wrote:  The SEC is behind the times. The SWC was doing this crap over 30 years ago.

The SMU 30 for 30 popped in my head reading this.
04-10-2014 12:46 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
It's rampant and it's in every conference. If people want it to stop they'll need to quit trying to be hypocritical about it and using it as a weapon against those they don't like. The same thing goes for the academic scandal at UNC. These are problems that need to be addressed.
04-10-2014 12:57 PM
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CardFan1 Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
I remember one trip to Lexington in the Mid 90's and stopping in the Fayette Mall and seeing 2 Kentucky players with what looked like Their Moms in Dawahares clothing store. My wife and I were in line behind Them and suddenly the store Mgr came up and waved Them through without paying a cent for a lot of clothes. They also were a sponsor of Kentucky radio broadcasts.
04-10-2014 01:24 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
Honestly, the only surprise for me is that the dollar figures weren't higher.
04-10-2014 01:58 PM
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MJG Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 11:36 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Perhaps Ohio State can give us all a seminar on recruiting ethics and set us straight.

Terrell Pryor had six different cars at OSU yet only tattoos were punished. Sounds legit to me and cheating is competing in Nascar .
04-10-2014 02:24 PM
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
Row Todd.
04-10-2014 02:25 PM
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 12:46 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 12:04 PM)Ghis Wrote:  The SEC is behind the times. The SWC was doing this crap over 30 years ago.

The SMU 30 for 30 popped in my head reading this.

I lived in Houston when the SMU Pony Express got busted. Ed Fowler, a columnist for the Houston Chronicle, used to refer to the SWC as "the Society for Wrongdoing and Corruption".

It goes on all the time, everywhere. They've just found better and more deniable ways to go about giving kids cash. Buy and load a throwaway Visa card. Instead of a booster giving a player a no-show summer job, he finds a friend with no connection whatever to the university and gets (or pays) him to hire the kid to not do some job and hands him a sackfull of cash to give the kid for not doing it.

Lots of ways to end run the system, and it happens everydamnwhere.

I looked at that UK-UConn Final just played and thought to myself "they couldn't have *found* two programs who give less of a **** what the NCAA says or thinks."
04-10-2014 04:18 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
I was a scholarship athlete without of a lick illegal benefit. About the only thing our teams ever did wrong was being volun'told' to attend voluntary practices.
04-10-2014 04:32 PM
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Ghis Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 04:18 PM)UAB Band Dad Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 12:46 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(04-10-2014 12:04 PM)Ghis Wrote:  The SEC is behind the times. The SWC was doing this crap over 30 years ago.

The SMU 30 for 30 popped in my head reading this.

I lived in Houston when the SMU Pony Express got busted. Ed Fowler, a columnist for the Houston Chronicle, used to refer to the SWC as "the Society for Wrongdoing and Corruption".


Always loved the one with Eric Dickerson showing up in town with a brand new Firebird Trans Am that had "mysteriously" appeared courtesy of the Ags, only to see him sign with the Ponies. He he.
04-10-2014 05:02 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 12:04 PM)Ghis Wrote:  The SEC is behind the times. The SWC was doing this crap over 30 years ago.

Both were doing it then 03-lmfao
04-10-2014 05:18 PM
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Post: #19
RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
Gotta love the sec apologists. Lol

Btw I was at a hunting camp in Selma a year ago with a former Auburn assistant and learned all about how Bama and Aunurn funnel money to kids and how kids that can't spell cat can somehow make passing grades in college.

Maybe one day people will be fed up enough and clean this mess up?
04-10-2014 05:25 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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RE: Meet the Bag Man - how SEC programs cheat like hell and get away with it
(04-10-2014 01:24 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  I remember one trip to Lexington in the Mid 90's and stopping in the Fayette Mall and seeing 2 Kentucky players with what looked like Their Moms in Dawahares clothing store. My wife and I were in line behind Them and suddenly the store Mgr came up and waved Them through without paying a cent for a lot of clothes. They also were a sponsor of Kentucky radio broadcasts.

We have a poster on a UC board that was a booster/recruiter for the bball program in the 60's and 70's. He tells all kinds of bag man stories, especially among UC/UL/UK. One was UC boosters took a pass on Dickie Beal, because UC was on probation and they knew Ed badger could not run a program, so they just decided to save their money.

We were all dirty, especially back then. Who was the UK recruit that boosters sent cash in the mail and caught?
04-10-2014 05:29 PM
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