(03-31-2014 08:08 AM)orangefan Wrote: My calculation of he final number of units earned by conferences in this year's tournament. All conferences not listed earned one unit.
Big Ten - 16 (1.33/school)
PAC 12 - 14 (1.17/school)
SEC - 14 (1.0/school)
Big 12 - 13 (1.3/school)
ACC - 12 (0.8/school)
American - 11 (1.1/school)
Atlantic 10 - 10 (0.77/school)
Big East - 6 (0.6/school)
Mountain West - 4 (0.36/school)
West Coast - 3 (0.3/school)
America East - 2
Atlantic Sun - 2
Big West - 2
Ivy League - 2
Missouri Valley - 2
Southland - 2
Summit - 2
Based on experience, a "power" conference should average 1 unit per member school per year. The B1G led the way this year, but of course will have 14 mouths to feed next year. The ACC came up short this year, but has UL coming in next year, who would have added 3 units getting it to the target 15. The American clearly staked its claim to power conference status. The BE disappointed, but one year is always too small of a sample.
Your calculations on the Big 12 are off. They divide shares 11 ways (counting the conference share) 10 ways if the conference share isn't calculated.
???? First of all, they don't. In any event, why would you apply that to the Big 12 and not to every other conference? He applied the same methodology to every conference-Units/# of teams.
I didn't apply it, he counted 13 schools for the Big 12. I was pointing out that 11 shares if you counted the conference (which he didn't for any of them) and 10 if you didn't. Go back and look at his original post.
(03-31-2014 08:08 AM)orangefan Wrote: My calculation of he final number of units earned by conferences in this year's tournament. All conferences not listed earned one unit.
Big Ten - 16 (1.33/school)
PAC 12 - 14 (1.17/school)
SEC - 14 (1.0/school)
Big 12 - 13 (1.3/school)
ACC - 12 (0.8/school)
American - 11 (1.1/school)
Atlantic 10 - 10 (0.77/school)
Big East - 6 (0.6/school)
Mountain West - 4 (0.36/school)
West Coast - 3 (0.3/school)
America East - 2
Atlantic Sun - 2
Big West - 2
Ivy League - 2
Missouri Valley - 2
Southland - 2
Summit - 2
Based on experience, a "power" conference should average 1 unit per member school per year. The B1G led the way this year, but of course will have 14 mouths to feed next year. The ACC came up short this year, but has UL coming in next year, who would have added 3 units getting it to the target 15. The American clearly staked its claim to power conference status. The BE disappointed, but one year is always too small of a sample.
Your calculations on the Big 12 are off. They divide shares 11 ways (counting the conference share) 10 ways if the conference share isn't calculated.
???? First of all, they don't. In any event, why would you apply that to the Big 12 and not to every other conference? He applied the same methodology to every conference-Units/# of teams.
I didn't apply it, he counted 13 schools for the Big 12. I was pointing out that 11 shares if you counted the conference (which he didn't for any of them) and 10 if you didn't. Go back and look at his original post.
He was computing "credits," not schools.
Sorry about that, I'm having a distracted bad brain day.
(03-31-2014 12:08 PM)JRsec Wrote: Your calculations on the Big 12 are off. They divide shares 11 ways (counting the conference share) 10 ways if the conference share isn't calculated.
???? First of all, they don't. In any event, why would you apply that to the Big 12 and not to every other conference? He applied the same methodology to every conference-Units/# of teams.
I didn't apply it, he counted 13 schools for the Big 12. I was pointing out that 11 shares if you counted the conference (which he didn't for any of them) and 10 if you didn't. Go back and look at his original post.
He was computing "credits," not schools.
Sorry about that, I'm having a distracted bad brain day.
The SEC having 14 credits and 14 schools must have thrown you off and its hard to keep track of how many the Big 10 has. They keep dribbling more schools in!
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2014 02:02 PM by bullet.)
(03-31-2014 08:08 AM)orangefan Wrote: My calculation of he final number of units earned by conferences in this year's tournament. All conferences not listed earned one unit.
Big Ten - 16 (1.33/school)
PAC 12 - 14 (1.17/school)
SEC - 14 (1.0/school)
Big 12 - 13 (1.3/school)
ACC - 12 (0.8/school)
American - 11 (1.1/school)
Atlantic 10 - 10 (0.77/school)
Big East - 6 (0.6/school)
Mountain West - 4 (0.36/school)
West Coast - 3 (0.3/school)
America East - 2
Atlantic Sun - 2
Big West - 2
Ivy League - 2
Missouri Valley - 2
Southland - 2
Summit - 2
Based on experience, a "power" conference should average 1 unit per member school per year. The B1G led the way this year, but of course will have 14 mouths to feed next year. The ACC came up short this year, but has UL coming in next year, who would have added 3 units getting it to the target 15. The American clearly staked its claim to power conference status. The BE disappointed, but one year is always too small of a sample.
Your calculations on the Big 12 are off. They divide shares 11 ways (counting the conference share) 10 ways if the conference share isn't calculated.
Don't think that is correct. Don't know if the Big 12 or any conference gets NCAA shares from its schools. Either way though the BIG 12 conference doesn't take a full share of tv rights, so they probably don't take a full share of NCAA tourney shares either (if they get any).
Also, if it were off for the Big 12 then the other conferences shares also haven't been included in the breakout.
(03-31-2014 08:08 AM)orangefan Wrote: My calculation of he final number of units earned by conferences in this year's tournament. All conferences not listed earned one unit.
Big Ten - 16 (1.33/school)
PAC 12 - 14 (1.17/school)
SEC - 14 (1.0/school)
Big 12 - 13 (1.3/school)
ACC - 12 (0.8/school)
American - 11 (1.1/school)
Atlantic 10 - 10 (0.77/school)
Big East - 6 (0.6/school)
Mountain West - 4 (0.36/school)
West Coast - 3 (0.3/school)
America East - 2
Atlantic Sun - 2
Big West - 2
Ivy League - 2
Missouri Valley - 2
Southland - 2
Summit - 2
Based on experience, a "power" conference should average 1 unit per member school per year. The B1G led the way this year, but of course will have 14 mouths to feed next year. The ACC came up short this year, but has UL coming in next year, who would have added 3 units getting it to the target 15. The American clearly staked its claim to power conference status. The BE disappointed, but one year is always too small of a sample.
Your calculations on the Big 12 are off. They divide shares 11 ways (counting the conference share) 10 ways if the conference share isn't calculated.
Don't think that is correct. Don't know if the Big 12 or any conference gets NCAA shares from its schools. Either way though the BIG 12 conference doesn't take a full share of tv rights, so they probably don't take a full share of NCAA tourney shares either (if they get any).
Also, if it were off for the Big 12 then the other conferences shares also haven't been included in the breakout.
However the Big 12 does it is irrelevant. Every conference has to fund the central office one way or another. Why would you deduct this cost from one conference and not any other?
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2014 03:12 PM by orangefan.)
(03-31-2014 12:14 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote: Second, while a blow to lose Louisville, they only earned 3 credits. SMU has the potential to earn 3 credits next year. They were the very last team out, and likely would have earned at least 1-2 if they were in. They will be a preseason top 3 AAC pick next year. Tulsa also earned a credit for CUSA and are being added. Will these offset Louisville, no. But it will at least partially offset the number of credits. The AAC has the potential to earn another 10 credits or so next year as well.
UConn 3-4 credits
UC 2-3 credits
Memphis 2-3 credits
SMU 1-2 credits
Tulsa and/or Houston could get a credit. Temple could rebound as well.
Total of appx +/- 10 credits on average.
An article I saw last year had the units a lot different. for an example
in 2014, the minimum units earned by teams:
Duke 18
UNC 20
ND 7
Pitt 11
Syracuse 17
Louisville 20
SMU 0
Temple 8
Tulane 0
Memphis 12
Houston 1
East Carolina 0
Central Florida 0
Cincy 6
UConn 12
South Florida 3
and if you look what applies from 2014-2019
There is no way they make up for the loss of Louisville, Pitts, Syracuse and Notre Dame with any new members that joined the AAC
Temple(31) and Memphis(32) units stay with CUSA. Cincy earns 29, UConn 36, USF 15, UCF 0, ECU 0, Houston 3(stay with CUSA), SMU 0, Tulane 0
(03-31-2014 11:49 PM)dopeordogfood Wrote: An article I saw last year had the units a lot different. for an example
in 2014, the minimum units earned by teams:
Duke 18
UNC 20
ND 7
Pitt 11
Syracuse 17
Louisville 20
SMU 0
Temple 8
Tulane 0
Memphis 12
Houston 1
East Carolina 0
Central Florida 0
Cincy 6
UConn 12
South Florida 3
and if you look what applies from 2014-2019
There is no way they make up for the loss of Louisville, Pitts, Syracuse and Notre Dame with any new members that joined the AAC
Temple(31) and Memphis(32) units stay with CUSA. Cincy earns 29, UConn 36, USF 15, UCF 0, ECU 0, Houston 3(stay with CUSA), SMU 0, Tulane 0
The AAC with look like a p5 based on the past teams that left not the future going forward to the next cycle. 2019+ NCAA UNITS and what they are worth
First, it is my understanding that a credit is EQUAL to one game played in the NCAA tourney - and a maximum of 5 credits earned per tourney (Play-in-Round, Round of 64, Round of 32, Sweet Sixteen, and Elite Eight) - how is it even possible to leave behind that many credits per each of those schools in a six year period? Wouldn't 30 be the max if you play EACH of those games each year? Which none did!
Second, Temple was never in the CUSA.
Third, In the six year total ending in 2010 and paid out in 2011 -- the entire Big East had only 109 credits -- I find it hard to believe those four schools alone secured 201. Just saying! I think your math or understanding is wrong. If the American continues to produce like it has this year - it will continue to produce major level credit totals.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 01:14 AM by IceJus10.)
Can somebody explain this thoroughly for me? I understand that the units earned are based on round by round apperance by team by conference for a given year. That's simple enough. The payouts are a rolling 6 year deal. Simple enough.... but how exactly are the shares calculated? Does the share get paid out equally to all members or does that depend on the conference bylaws?
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 01:32 AM by blunderbuss.)
(04-01-2014 01:31 AM)blunderbuss Wrote: Can somebody explain this thoroughly for me? I understand that the units earned are based on round by round apperance by team by conference for a given year. That's simple enough. The payouts are a rolling 6 year deal. Simple enough.... but how exactly are the shares calculated? Does the share get paid out equally to all members or does that depend on the conference bylaws?
The article I saw that was talking about Virgina and VCU quoted saying: “I’ve been involved with four different conferences and it’s been done four different ways,” said VCU Executive Associate Athletic Director Jeff Cupps.
Most split it evenly between all teams rather they make the tournament or not.
The Atlantic 10, the conference VCU plays in, has a different split. The league’s revenue sharing structure sets aside 25 percent of its basketball-related revenues to divide equally between all of its schools, regardless of performance. The remaining three-fourths are distributed to member teams based on their individual tournament performance, Cupps said.
“That’s pretty aggressive,” Cupps said of the 75-25 model, and the chance at a greater reward for individual tournament success was one reason VCU jumped from the Colonial Athletic Association to the Atlantic 10 two years ago.
(03-31-2014 11:49 PM)dopeordogfood Wrote: An article I saw last year had the units a lot different. for an example
in 2014, the minimum units earned by teams:
Duke 18
UNC 20
ND 7
Pitt 11
Syracuse 17
Louisville 20
SMU 0
Temple 8
Tulane 0
Memphis 12
Houston 1
East Carolina 0
Central Florida 0
Cincy 6
UConn 12
South Florida 3
and if you look what applies from 2014-2019
There is no way they make up for the loss of Louisville, Pitts, Syracuse and Notre Dame with any new members that joined the AAC
Temple(31) and Memphis(32) units stay with CUSA. Cincy earns 29, UConn 36, USF 15, UCF 0, ECU 0, Houston 3(stay with CUSA), SMU 0, Tulane 0
The AAC with look like a p5 based on the past teams that left not the future going forward to the next cycle. 2019+ NCAA UNITS and what they are worth
First, it is my understanding that a credit is EQUAL to one game played in the NCAA tourney - and a maximum of 5 credits earned per tourney (Play-in-Round, Round of 64, Round of 32, Sweet Sixteen, and Elite Eight) - how is it even possible to leave behind that many credits per each of those schools in a six year period? Wouldn't 30 be the max if you play EACH of those games each year? Which none did!
Second, Temple was never in the CUSA.
Third, In the six year total ending in 2010 and paid out in 2011 -- the entire Big East had only 109 credits -- I find it hard to believe those four schools alone secured 201. Just saying! I think your math or understanding is wrong. If the American continues to produce like it has this year - it will continue to produce major level credit totals.
read this article that has the figures. Some of the figures are estimates but the main thing to look at is what "estimates" stand with the teams leaving vs the teams coming in. Rather my understanding is wrong or not, the point still remains about the earning potential of the leagues. http://winthropintelligence.com/2013/04/...uts-after/
(03-31-2014 11:49 PM)dopeordogfood Wrote: An article I saw last year had the units a lot different. for an example
in 2014, the minimum units earned by teams:
Duke 18
UNC 20
ND 7
Pitt 11
Syracuse 17
Louisville 20
SMU 0
Temple 8
Tulane 0
Memphis 12
Houston 1
East Carolina 0
Central Florida 0
Cincy 6
UConn 12
South Florida 3
and if you look what applies from 2014-2019
There is no way they make up for the loss of Louisville, Pitts, Syracuse and Notre Dame with any new members that joined the AAC
Temple(31) and Memphis(32) units stay with CUSA. Cincy earns 29, UConn 36, USF 15, UCF 0, ECU 0, Houston 3(stay with CUSA), SMU 0, Tulane 0
The AAC with look like a p5 based on the past teams that left not the future going forward to the next cycle. 2019+ NCAA UNITS and what they are worth
First, it is my understanding that a credit is EQUAL to one game played in the NCAA tourney - and a maximum of 5 credits earned per tourney (Play-in-Round, Round of 64, Round of 32, Sweet Sixteen, and Elite Eight) - how is it even possible to leave behind that many credits per each of those schools in a six year period? Wouldn't 30 be the max if you play EACH of those games each year? Which none did!
Second, Temple was never in the CUSA.
Third, In the six year total ending in 2010 and paid out in 2011 -- the entire Big East had only 109 credits -- I find it hard to believe those four schools alone secured 201. Just saying! I think your math or understanding is wrong. If the American continues to produce like it has this year - it will continue to produce major level credit totals.
read this article that has the figures. Some of the figures are estimates but the main thing to look at is what "estimates" stand with the teams leaving vs the teams coming in. Rather my understanding is wrong or not, the point still remains about the earning potential of the leagues. http://winthropintelligence.com/2013/04/...uts-after/
sum up this article
The presentation in this article is highly confusing. I think what they are presenting is a 2014 total that has the rolling 6 year total, a 2015 with the rolling 5 year total already earned, for 2016 - a 4 year total, for 2017 - a 3 year total, for 2018 - a 2 year total, and for 2019 - a one year total. Then they sum these six numbers. Basically, it presents the remaining future value of the credits earned going into this year's tournament.
Syracuse, for instance, earned 0 credits in 2008, 3 in 2009, 3 in 2010, 2 in 2011, 4 in 2012 and 5 in 2013. For 2014, they contribute 17 units to the AAC (0+3+3+2+4+5), for 2015 - 17 (3+3+2+4+5), 2016 - 14 (3+2+4+5), 2017 - 11 (2+4+5), 2018 - 9 (4+5) and 2019 - 5. Then totalling the annual totals = 17+17+14+11+9+5=73. 73 times the value per unit gives you the value that Syracuse left with the AAC, probably something north of $20 million.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 09:57 AM by orangefan.)
[quote]The presentation in this article is highly confusing. I think what they are presenting is a 2014 total that has the rolling 6 year total, a 2015 with the rolling 5 year total already earned, for 2016 - a 4 year total, for 2017 - a 3 year total, for 2018 - a 2 year total, and for 2019 - a one year total. Then they sum these six numbers. Basically, it presents the remaining future value of the credits earned going into this year's tournament.
Syracuse, for instance, earned 0 credits in 2008, 3 in 2009, 3 in 2010, 2 in 2011, 4 in 2012 and 5 in 2013. For 2014, they contribute 17 units to the AAC (0+3+3+2+4+5), for 2015 - 17 (3+3+2+4+5), 2016 - 14 (3+2+4+5), 2017 - 11 (2+4+5), 2018 - 9 (4+5) and 2019 - 5. Then totalling the annual totals = 17+17+14+11+9+5=73. 73 times the value per unit gives you the value that Syracuse left with the AAC, probably something north of $20 million.[/quote]
That makes sense. That publication usually produces an article about this around this time of the year before the Final Four. I'll look for it. Thanks for the explanation
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 10:11 AM by dopeordogfood.)
right before the final 4 would make sense, as all units are earned prior to the final 4. The SF games mean nothing in terms of units- the max units a team can earn in a year is 5.
Who cares if they match credit for credit of the old 15/16-team Big East? Members of THAT Big East are split up over FOUR (soon to be FIVE) Conferences! Even the ACC right now, based on how it performed this year couldn't maintain those numbers either - and that is with half of its conference now former Big East members.
I don't think anyone expects a 10-member conference to keep pace up with the numbers previously delivered by 15-16 members -- that said, the American's performance in the tourney this year looks just like the other major conferences and that potential exists moving forward too - so while the conference won't have 16-team Big East numbers, it is more than comparable with other major conferences.
We'll have to see going forward how it shakes out. That article was a snapshot from tournament credits generated from 2008-2013. The AAC will have 5 teams in Houston, ECU, UCF, SMU and Tulane that left 3 total credits behind to their old conference that is spread out from 2014-2019. Can they all of a sudden start earning credits on a consistent basis when they haven't in the past from a less powerful league than the AAC? The league's perception as a result of the bottom 5 teams this year was tainted even with a defending National Champion in it. It might limit the league to a 3 or 4 bid league going forward. Cincy and Memphis not making it out of the first weekend hurts. UConn making it to the FF helps but with only 12 teams, the units are going to be on par with the other leagues outside of the "p5"(I hate that term).
The key to the AAC is to be better than this year. They need to have at least 7 of the 12 teams strong, not 4 or 5. You are going to always be able to count on Cincy, Memphis and UConn to make the tourney. Who will be the other 3 to step up and be consistent? SMU and Houston are the best candidates I see on the horizon. Who are the other 2?
(04-01-2014 11:36 AM)dopeordogfood Wrote: We'll have to see going forward how it shakes out. That article was a snapshot from tournament credits generated from 2008-2013. The AAC will have 5 teams in Houston, ECU, UCF, SMU and Tulane that left 3 total credits behind to their old conference that is spread out from 2014-2019. Can they all of a sudden start earning credits on a consistent basis when they haven't in the past from a less powerful league than the AAC? The league's perception as a result of the bottom 5 teams this year was tainted even with a defending National Champion in it. It might limit the league to a 3 or 4 bid league going forward. Cincy and Memphis not making it out of the first weekend hurts. UConn making it to the FF helps but with only 12 teams, the units are going to be on par with the other leagues outside of the "p5"(I hate that term).
The key to the AAC is to be better than this year. They need to have at least 7 of the 12 teams strong, not 4 or 5. You are going to always be able to count on Cincy, Memphis and UConn to make the tourney. Who will be the other 3 to step up and be consistent? SMU and Houston are the best candidates I see on the horizon. Who are the other 2?
A very good reason to bring in VCU to get to 12 on the hoops side.
(04-01-2014 09:56 AM)orangefan Wrote: The presentation in this article is highly confusing. I think what they are presenting is a 2014 total that has the rolling 6 year total, a 2015 with the rolling 5 year total already earned, for 2016 - a 4 year total, for 2017 - a 3 year total, for 2018 - a 2 year total, and for 2019 - a one year total. Then they sum these six numbers. Basically, it presents the remaining future value of the credits earned going into this year's tournament.
Syracuse, for instance, earned 0 credits in 2008, 3 in 2009, 3 in 2010, 2 in 2011, 4 in 2012 and 5 in 2013. For 2014, they contribute 17 units to the AAC (0+3+3+2+4+5), for 2015 - 17 (3+3+2+4+5), 2016 - 14 (3+2+4+5), 2017 - 11 (2+4+5), 2018 - 9 (4+5) and 2019 - 5. Then totalling the annual totals = 17+17+14+11+9+5=73. 73 times the value per unit gives you the value that Syracuse left with the AAC, probably something north of $20 million.
That makes sense. That publication usually produces an article about this around this time of the year before the Final Four. I'll look for it. Thanks for the explanation
It just occurred to me that Syracuse and Louisville are therefore paying the AAC over $30 million each to exit. Good support for the ACC's argument about the reasonableness of the Maryland exit fee.
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NCAA Tournament Shares earned in 2014
