(03-16-2014 08:44 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  Dayton should be in the NIT...SMU should be in the NCAAs...

Hopefully we beat the crap out of George Washington

Using the NCAA rankings released NYC state was the last team in followed by Xavier.

(03-16-2014 08:12 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 08:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 07:13 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Dick Vitale ‏@DickieV 7m

Big 12 has 7 teams in the Dance. / American Athletic Conference got a raw deal in seeding #NoRespect SMU was left out

I think that is DIRECTLY related to having no voice in the room.

You do realize the "voice" you are talking about is really a ludicrous argument.

NCAA Committee "To avoid a potential conflict of interest, committee members must leave the room when their own school is being discussed - or schools in the case of the conference commissioners. The member may be invited to answer factual questions regarding their team (e.g. status of player injuries). An athletic director may be present when other schools from his or her conference are discussed, but he or she may only speak if asked."

Yes, and that person will hear every word being said about their schools and be in the position of voting for (or against) every school from every other conference that spoke. So who do you screw? The guy in the room that will be voting on your team in moment or the conference that doesn't have a guy in the room? Its incredibly naive to think that just because you cant speak while your team is being discussed means your presence has no influence. Do you think its just a coincidence that every P5 conference has a representative on the new College Football Playoff selection committee while no G5 conference is representated?

Every team besides Memphis was underseeded by the committee. This is a clear shot at the conference. It's also a message to the bottom half of the conference: "Get better, and quickly."

In a weird way SMU's biggest win eventually led to their downfall. If the upset at UConn never happens then they would have been in the 4/5 game with no chance of a bad loss. It turns out that the Houston loss hurt the computer numbers, as well as media perception, more than the UConn win helped. If SMU ends the season with a loss to tourney-bound, Memphis, on their home court I think they are headed to Dayton right now.

The bull$hit spewing from the Wake Forest AD chairing the selection committee is laughable. Now, SMU's OOC schedule wasn't great: @Arkansas(L), Neutral-Virginia(L), @Wyoming(W), Neutral-TCU(W), Neutral-Texas A&M(W).

Here's a look at NC State "tougher" schedule

Nov. 8, 2013 App. State W 98-77 1-0
Nov. 12, 2013 at Cincinnati L 68-57 1-1
Nov. 16, 2013 Campbell W 81-66 2-1
Nov. 20, 2013 NC CENTRAL L 82-72 2-2
Nov. 26, 2013 FLA GULF COAST W 82-62 3-2
Nov. 30, 2013 E. Kentucky W 75-56 4-2
Dec. 4, 2013 Northwestern W 69-48 5-2
Dec. 7, 2013 Long Beach St. W 76-66 6-2
Dec. 14, 2013 Detroit W 82-79 7-2
Dec. 18, 2013 at Tennessee W 65-58 8-2
Dec. 21, 2013 East Carolina W 90-79 9-2
Dec. 28, 2013 Missouri L 68-64 9-3
Dec. 30, 2013 at UNC-G'boro W 68-64 10-3

(03-16-2014 11:59 PM)stxrunner Wrote:  Every team besides Memphis was underseeded by the committee. This is a clear shot at the conference. It's also a message to the bottom half of the conference: "Get better, and quickly."

The bottom must get better but what killed SMU was their OCC with no wins over rip 100 and then losing to Houston in the tourney

As for the three teams in the same region, why not use that to our advantage. Back in 1992, when the Great Midwest got three teams in (UC, DePaul and Memphis), they put Memphis and us in a regional. Both made it to the Elite Eight, insuring a team in that league would make it to the FF.

(03-16-2014 06:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 06:01 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Coach K makes comments on the strength of the ACC Tourney and schedules... ACC - A10 talk scheduling agreements and Tourney swaps... The ACC gets extra programs in and the A-10 gets high seeds. UMASS a sixth seed and Louisville only a four?

These are warning shots... Power 5 football conferences and their partners will get the benefits of the doubt. While the Big East, American, and Mountain West just pissed all over!

Actually, the Big East got 4 in, which was generous.

Xavier got in instead of SMU. That's probably what it boiled down to.

And it should be a surprise to nobody that the AAC is not highly regarded. People on this forum fool themselves into thinking the P5 respects us and considers us a "tweener". They do not, we are G5, nothing more, to them.

This ^^^^

Heck at work when people talk about the post season brackets they say who the hell is the American Conference. Rutgers laying an egg against L'Ville in the tournament didn't help with eye test on strength of schedule in the American either. Thought SMU should have been in but NC State beat some stronger teams and the final spot went to Xavier and the BIG EAST on STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE in conference and OOC. When the choices are close at this time the bids will go out to the P5 and Big East teams for now. The American Conference needs to build their brand and strength of schedule internally and OOC before they start getting the close bids in post season play. Loosing brand names like Syracuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, West Virginia, Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, and after this year L'Ville is hurting the American for now and I don't see this conference being more than a four bid conference like the New Big East now or in the future either as the members beat up on each other during their regular season play. For now UConn, Cinn, Memphis, and a return to winning ways for Temple BB will have to carry the the league while SMU pushes over the hump in the NCAA committee's eyes and the rest of the conference catches up in building the new American Brand Name.

Besides for a current 10 member league the American did not do all that bad for it's first year. More than a third of the conference is dancing in the NCAA Tournament and at least 50% of the conference will be in post season play with SMU most assuredly getting an NIT bid.

Getting 4 American teams to the Sweet 16 is very possible:

Memphis beats GW and Virginia
UC beats Harvard and MSU
UCONN beats StJ and Villanova
UofL beats Manhattan and St Louis

Once there, there's a good shot at getting 3 teams to the Elite 8.

The American has a way to go before getting instant respect. We have to win in the Tourney and every team has to improve their OOC schedule.

(03-17-2014 06:58 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Getting 4 American teams to the Sweet 16 is very possible:

Memphis beats GW and Virginia
UC beats Harvard and MSU
UCONN beats StJ and Villanova
UofL beats Manhattan and St Louis

Once there, there's a good shot at getting 3 teams to the Elite 8.

The American has a way to go before getting instant respect. We have to win in the Tourney and every team has to improve their OOC schedule.

Agree

What this comes down to is why the hell is NC State in the tourny? They weren't even seriously being discussed as a bubble team. SMU's resume is better than theirs. NC State has a worse RPI, less top 50 wins, far worse conference record, exact same road record of 6-6, and actually is doing worse in the last 10 games than SMU (6-4 vs 5-5). One win over a completely falling apart Cuse should not have gotten them in.

(03-17-2014 06:58 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Getting 4 American teams to the Sweet 16 is very possible:

Memphis beats GW and Virginia
UC beats Harvard and MSU
UCONN beats StJ and Villanova
UofL beats Manhattan and St Louis

Once there, there's a good shot at getting 3 teams to the Elite 8.

The American has a way to go before getting instant respect. We have to win in the Tourney and every team has to improve their OOC schedule.

Been here, done that...

Learn from the Big East experience... RESPECT WILL NOT BE GIVEN.

It doesn't matter what you do on the court. It doesn't matter who you beat or who you don't beat. It doesn't matter if we send three teams to the Elite 8. It doesn't matter if UConn or UC or Memphis wins the whole enchilada.

At the end of the day, what matters...the only thing that matters... is that our teams play in the American. Want to know why NC State is in the tournament? Because they play in the ACC which is considered a superior conference.

Usually I wake up "the next morning" and feel somewhat better about things. Not today. I remember last night (as one other Bearcat fan also experienced last night) getting nervous that even UC wasn't going to be "in" as the 3/4 of the field was seeded and UC hadn't been called yet. And then to read so many posters on this forum who agree that the AAC is frankly an inferior product, I think the battle is lost. Hell, if we ourselves are going to buy into the premise that this conference is frankly poor enough to deserve getting the short-straw in the deck, then we might as well fold it up.

No other conference got treated with such obvious contempt.

The bottom half is inferior. It's like 2 conferences merged...part ACC, part MEAC.

The committee discounted the 8-10 wins the top half collected against those teams.

(03-16-2014 08:12 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 08:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 07:13 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Dick Vitale ‏@DickieV 7m

Big 12 has 7 teams in the Dance. / American Athletic Conference got a raw deal in seeding #NoRespect SMU was left out

I think that is DIRECTLY related to having no voice in the room.

You do realize the "voice" you are talking about is really a ludicrous argument.

NCAA Committee "To avoid a potential conflict of interest, committee members must leave the room when their own school is being discussed - or schools in the case of the conference commissioners. The member may be invited to answer factual questions regarding their team (e.g. status of player injuries). An athletic director may be present when other schools from his or her conference are discussed, but he or she may only speak if asked."

Having been in committees where decisions are made among competing academic institutions, I can tell you for certain that it works in weird ways. Basically, you don't tip your hand against competitors with interests. You don't want them screwing you when you're out of the room, so you make sure to figure out their interests and accommodate them. Early on in my career, I voiced preference for something only to watch everyone drop it down to the bottom of the rung when they realized that my interests did not coincide with theirs at all. My mistake was in not figuring out their interests and moving my interests closer to theirs. Then there's the all important black ball. With two people on the committee, the ACC could have voiced absolute disgust with the AAC. If you, as a sole representative of another conference, then step into that path and defend the AAC, what happens to your teams? You don't counter anyone's blackball, ever, unless it is against your interests, and if anyone ever throws a blackball at your direct interests, then it's war.

This is why, in most committees, the top candidate or top policy or the most favored position loses. It's always #2 that wins. Because committee members like to accommodate one another to protect their own interests. I've even seen this in live action with computers in a room of 5 people (we each ranked candidates from 1 to 5). I saw the top candidates get the lowest vote from one or two members because they knew that if they voted the top candidate #2 to their preference, that the top candidate would win.

(03-16-2014 06:04 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 06:03 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 06:01 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  Coach K makes comments on the strength of the ACC Tourney and schedules... ACC - A10 talk scheduling agreements and Tourney swaps... The ACC gets extra programs in and the A-10 gets high seeds. UMASS a sixth seed and Louisville only a four?

These are warning shots... Power 5 football conferences and their partners will get the benefits of the doubt. While the Big East, American, and Mountain West just pissed all over!

Actually, the Big East got 4 in, which was generous.

Xavier got in instead of SMU. That's probably what it boiled down to.

And it should be a surprise to nobody that the AAC is not highly regarded. People on this forum fool themselves into thinking the P5 respects us and considers us a "tweener". They do not, we are G5, nothing more, to them.

Troll

Actually it is absolutely the truth. You guys kept trying to build this conference up into something it was'nt. Get used to it.

They are taking the AAC down. That's what this is. I think some of you are whistling by the graveyard.

I didn't like the SMU decision but it wasn't because of NC State. Has anyone taken a look at BYU's losses? Hideous.

A. I'm going to start with the lowest hanging fruit, and that's UConn's seeding. 7? UConn should have been at least a 5. When people knock UConn's games against the bottom 5, realize a few things. The mega conferences like the ACC have unbalanced schedules. Some of those top teams avoided playing the other power teams twice and instead they had multiple games against weaklings Miami, Virginia Tech, BC, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest. Second, UConn's OOC was about as strong as UConn could schedule it. What, Florida, Maryland, Indiana, Stanford, Washington, Harvard, wasn't good enough? It's not often that you hand the #1 team in the nation one of their 2 losses and beat historical programs like Maryland and Indiana (in down years, albeit, though Maryland beat the ACC's #1 in Virginia, the BE's #1 in Providence, while Indiana beat the B1G's Michigan, Ohio St. and Wisconsin, while Stanford and Harvard made the tourney). What more really could UConn do OOC? That's the 22nd toughest schedule in the country, including games against AAC teams.

What's the message UConn can take from this? Do you schedule a tough OOC (where you'll take extra losses) or do you pump up your wins and FORCE the NCAA to give you a higher seed, ala St. Louis or Umass this year? Compare UConn's OOC to St. Louis's.

B. Louisville's seeding. Preposterous.

C. Giving higher seeds to ACC teams while stick Louisville on Wichita St.'s side. This is essentially taking out 2 birds with one stone. They gunned for Wichita St. there.

D. Seeding = NCAA tournament credits. We know this folks. You give your side higher seeds, and they proceed through the tourney after playing low majors the first round, and you collect the money. Even better if you stick the toughest and top seeds from other conferences against one another.

E. The SMOKING GUN: 75% of AAC teams in the same region. It's NEVER happened before.

They are limiting the AAC's possible avenues, and they are taking the AAC's money. THIS IS A SMOKING GUN. It's stunning to me that some AAC fans are whistling past the graveyard. Win out, you say. If you take this attitude year after year, you will not win out. Ain't going to happen. You can't fight the seeding.

If you're going to argue that Louisville was punished for a weak OOC, then why was UConn punished? It had a very strong OOC and even beat the #1 team Florida.

Explain that to me.

Or can you have things two ways?

(03-17-2014 07:59 AM)upstater1 Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 08:12 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 08:02 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 07:13 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Dick Vitale ‏@DickieV 7m

Big 12 has 7 teams in the Dance. / American Athletic Conference got a raw deal in seeding #NoRespect SMU was left out

I think that is DIRECTLY related to having no voice in the room.

You do realize the "voice" you are talking about is really a ludicrous argument.

NCAA Committee "To avoid a potential conflict of interest, committee members must leave the room when their own school is being discussed - or schools in the case of the conference commissioners. The member may be invited to answer factual questions regarding their team (e.g. status of player injuries). An athletic director may be present when other schools from his or her conference are discussed, but he or she may only speak if asked."

Having been in committees where decisions are made among competing academic institutions, I can tell you for certain that it works in weird ways. Basically, you don't tip your hand against competitors with interests. You don't want them screwing you when you're out of the room, so you make sure to figure out their interests and accommodate them. Early on in my career, I voiced preference for something only to watch everyone drop it down to the bottom of the rung when they realized that my interests did not coincide with theirs at all. My mistake was in not figuring out their interests and moving my interests closer to theirs. Then there's the all important black ball. With two people on the committee, the ACC could have voiced absolute disgust with the AAC. If you, as a sole representative of another conference, then step into that path and defend the AAC, what happens to your teams? You don't counter anyone's blackball, ever, unless it is against your interests, and if anyone ever throws a blackball at your direct interests, then it's war.

This is why, in most committees, the top candidate or top policy or the most favored position loses. It's always #2 that wins. Because committee members like to accommodate one another to protect their own interests. I've even seen this in live action with computers in a room of 5 people (we each ranked candidates from 1 to 5). I saw the top candidates get the lowest vote from one or two members because they knew that if they voted the top candidate #2 to their preference, that the top candidate would win.

I don't think the ACC had two people on the committee but I agree with just about everything you said. The ACC, Big Ten, Big East, PAC-12, Big XII, and SEC had a rep on the committee. No doubt that the American's lack of representation in the room kept SMU out. Maybe the our direct competitors in the G5 had something to do with that too. C-USA and the Mountain West had someone on the committee.

There was a year when Cincinnati was 17-12 and got bounced in the first round of the C-USA tournament. Supposedly, C-USA had a rep from Charlotte on the committee that put the Bearcats safely into the field in the 8-9 game.

Hell, as a UC fan I am sorta used to being a seed line lower than expected...and getting sent to the West Coast used to be a regular expectation.

(03-17-2014 07:40 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 06:58 AM)mac6115cd Wrote:  Getting 4 American teams to the Sweet 16 is very possible:

Memphis beats GW and Virginia
UC beats Harvard and MSU
UCONN beats StJ and Villanova
UofL beats Manhattan and St Louis

Once there, there's a good shot at getting 3 teams to the Elite 8.

The American has a way to go before getting instant respect. We have to win in the Tourney and every team has to improve their OOC schedule.

Been here, done that...

Learn from the Big East experience... RESPECT WILL NOT BE GIVEN.

It doesn't matter what you do on the court. It doesn't matter who you beat or who you don't beat. It doesn't matter if we send three teams to the Elite 8. It doesn't matter if UConn or UC or Memphis wins the whole enchilada.

Usually, your posts are sensible. But what are you talking about here? The Big East's BASKETBALL reputation was sterling, we always got PLENTY of respect, plenty of tournament bids and good seeds, were treated as the Power conference we were.

(03-17-2014 08:10 AM)upstater1 Wrote:  They are taking the AAC down. That's what this is. I think some of you are whistling by the graveyard.

Apparently they did not get ESPN's permission to do so. And there will be repercussions. Katz did not hold any punches on the president last night. Vitale and others have already ranted about the lack of SMU and the placing of 3 AAC teams in the same region.

You don't go taking a dump on one of the best conferences this year in CBB, one in which ESPN is making an assload of money off of, and think they will sit quietly. And they haven't.