(03-06-2014 10:13 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:17 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  If you attended a FBS game that played Liberty, or attended a recent FCS game against LU, please share your thoughts on the game, their fans and traveling numbers. Where there problems reported due to the controversial nature of Liberty? Did school Prez or school officials express concerns in the local media? Basically, what were the experiences of teams that played LU. As LU has recently played played ODU, NCState, WFU, WVU, JMU and in the past App State, these fans are the best to either confirm, or reject the fears and thoughts expressed on this board. Due to the volatility of those for and against LU, please only reply if you attended a home game against LU, and are not a LU fan.

I fail to see how the treatment of a very small sample of visiting fans to LU for a basketball game would prove or disprove any fit concerns regarding employment discrimination within the athletic department at LU on the basis of sexual orientation and religion, questions as to the freedom of athletes to speak out, questions as to the motivation of LU for seeking admission to the Sun Belt, questions as to LU's ability to compromise with others as part of a group, and issues related to the administration that enables advocacy of the worst human rights abuses imaginable.

I, for one, would NOT feel welcome on a campus that simply arrests visitors to campus because they are Gay and advocate, quietly for Gay acceptance and inclusion.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/03/10/...niversity/

Is this what would happen to me if I showed up at LU-USA tilt wearing a Association of Gay Jaguar Fans T-shirt? Would I be arrested? Would I be told "no you can't wear that shirt or sit in an identifiable group". By the way, we do have a group. And we do go to away games. We don't have shirts. Yet. And no..we don't call ourselves the Miss Pawla's. Although I don't know why USA dropped her.

For the record, I've been to Lynchburg. I wouldn't set foot on your campus. I know I'm not welcome. Nor are any other Gay persons. Some LU people like to bring up the case of someone who is apparently Gay but who wasn't kicked out for being Gay. I note that he was kicked out of the dorms and didn't graduate.

Here is a novel idea... LEAVE YOUR AGENDA AT HOME!

You say just leave you alone and let you live your life the way you wish. But you go out of your way to shove your agenda in other's face and then ***** and complain when you get some grief. If you truly just wanted to be left alone, you'd go to the game wearing a shirt like all other Jaguar Fans and enjoy the game. Leave the agenda at home.

Welcome to the Sun Belt. I've been a member of this community for close to 40 years as a fan, a student, and an alumni.

My agenda? Like being able to not be barred from working at a Sun Belt athletic department because I'm Gay (or Jewish, or Buddhist, or whatever )? Or being able to attend an athletic event in a group setting, where we, like the friggin' fraternities or religious groups opposed to equality, wear identifying clothing?

And yes, if LU has high ranking administrators advocating/cheerleading legislation to throw me and every member of my group in prison for the crime of existing, then I have a problem with my conference providing them with a bigger platform to do so.

You really are on a different planet if you think anyone at Liberty wants gay people to be thrown in prison for being gay. It's one thing to disagree with Liberty about things, it's another to just spout off crazy things that no one believes. It's a huge leap from "the law school Dean (who isn't well liked btw) is a socially conservative activist" to "the school wants to lock up gay people for existing". You aren't helping your case with such ridiculous statements.

(03-07-2014 02:30 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  I love how "PC" has become a term used to immediately dismiss an idea (much like "liberal" has never been the same in the public eye since Michael Dukakis ran for president). I think that even if something is the right thing to do, it's going to be discounted by many if it's embraced by the PC/liberal/entitlement/insert-your-own-insult crowd.

(Sorry, just had to throw in a bit of leftist paranoia to balance out that of the right and ensure that I don't fall out the small but vocal minority.)

Also, as I've stated, if Liberty is invited, I will welcome them to the Belt. I will also try really hard to find a costume like this for our first conference football game...

+1
PC is the new dismissive term for anything you don't like.

(03-07-2014 02:35 PM)buryyourduke Wrote:  You really are on a different planet if you think anyone at Liberty wants gay people to be thrown in prison for being gay. It's one thing to disagree with Liberty about things, it's another to just spout off crazy things that no one believes. It's a huge leap from "the law school Dean (who isn't well liked btw) is a socially conservative activist" to "the school wants to lock up gay people for existing". You aren't helping your case with such ridiculous statements.

I think the Dean of the LU Law School, who is supported by JFJ and your Board of Trustees, counts as a someone.

And its not just a someone, but the head of one of your University Divisions.

Here's an audio clip. http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/201...or-us.html

By the way, Staver has to be fully aware of the language in the Ugandan bill as his Liberty Counsel (which is wink-wink not "officially" a part of LU - and Staver is the head of as well) is defending his compatriot in advocacy (and Holocaust Revisionist), Scott Lively, from a lawsuit in Massachusetts stemming from Lively's advocacy of the Ugandan bill.

Simply telling me that he isn't important in the LU community isn't credible while he continues to say and support stuff like this while apparently retaining the full support of JFJ and the LU Board.

And this isn't some isolated event from Staver either.

I don't think you guys would want to associate with some Islamic Medrassa that advocates criminal penalties for practicing Christianity. I don't want to associate with Liberty University because they appear to advocate criminal penalties (and certainly cheerlead them) for being Gay.

And beyond that, there's the employment discrimination against Gays and Jews and just about everyone not evangelical in non-theological hiring. And penalties for attending the school while being Gay (which do exist in the student handbook and could be applied).

I don't feel welcome there. As a matter of fact, I'd feel UNSAFE there. Arrests of peaceful Gay protesters. Persecution of non-Conservative political viewpoints. Advocacy of extreme abuses of basic human rights at the highest levels of the Administration. Overt and public employment discrimination and student policies that are highly discriminatory not only against LGBT persons, but also against non-evangelicals.

I get that there are people within the LU community that are rightly appalled by Staver. But that doesn't change the fact that Staver is part of the highest level of LU's administration.

So long as Staver is the Dean of the Law School, LU owns Staver. Its not like anyone at LU has even said anything condemning his statements and advocacy, much less sought to undo the ties.

(03-07-2014 03:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And beyond that, there's the employment discrimination against Gays and Jews and just about everyone not evangelical in non-theological hiring. And penalties for attending the school while being Gay (which do exist in the student handbook and could be applied).

I'm sorry, but your continued harping on this is nothing short of abject idiocy.

Is GLAAD discriminating when they don't hire lawyers, communications professionals, etc. who personally believe that homosexual acts are sin? Would they hire a janitor who stood outside their offices during his off-duty hours with a sign that reads "God hates F@gs"?

In Christian Education, all education revolves around learning about God's creation - every subject, every discipline revolves around that. You can't isolate "theological" teachers from "non-theological". In addition, hiring people for any position who openly deny/oppose your beliefs greatly impacts your credibility and the purity of your mission. You can keep calling it "discrimination" in an attempt to liken it to racial or gender discrimination, but it plainly isn't. It is choosing not to hire someone whose actions are antithetical to your beliefs, and THAT is perfectly normal.

(03-07-2014 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  JFJ just uses Staver to make the statements that his dad once did.

Do you have proof of that? And just saying 'He works at Liberty' doesn't cut it. Otherwise you could say that anything any faculty member does or says is endorsed by a University President.

(03-07-2014 03:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I don't feel welcome there. As a matter of fact, I'd feel UNSAFE there. Arrests of peaceful Gay protesters. Persecution of non-Conservative political viewpoints. Advocacy of extreme abuses of basic human rights at the highest levels of the Administration. Overt and public employment discrimination and student policies that are highly discriminatory not only against LGBT persons, but also against non-evangelicals.

You have never been there. How in the world could you say you wouldn't feel safe? Is it because of the mythical Gay-dar that LUPD has that will pull you over for 'Driving While Gay?'
You bring up protestors who weren't there for an athletic event. Who asked for and were denied permission to demonstrate where they did. Who went ahead and did it anyways. Were politely asked to vacate the premises and refused, thus breaking the law by trespassing. You make it sound like LUPD led by Staver and Jerry Jr released the German Shepherds and unleashed the water cannons to dislodge these people
Are you aware of how many gay athletes have participated for LU athletic teams? More importantly for your purposes, do you know how many athletes who are/were gay who competed against LU on LU's campus and were arrested?

(03-07-2014 03:34 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And beyond that, there's the employment discrimination against Gays and Jews and just about everyone not evangelical in non-theological hiring. And penalties for attending the school while being Gay (which do exist in the student handbook and could be applied).

I'm sorry, but your continued harping on this is nothing short of abject idiocy.

Is GLAAD discriminating when they don't hire lawyers, communications professionals, etc. who personally believe that homosexual acts are sin? Would they hire a janitor who stood outside their offices during his off-duty hours with a sign that reads "God hates F@gs"?

In Christian Education, all education revolves around learning about God's creation - every subject, every discipline revolves around that. You can't isolate "theological" teachers from "non-theological". In addition, hiring people for any position who openly deny/oppose your beliefs greatly impacts your credibility and the purity of your mission. You can keep calling it "discrimination" in an attempt to liken it to racial or gender discrimination, but it plainly isn't. It is choosing not to hire someone whose actions are antithetical to your beliefs, and THAT is perfectly normal.

1) GLAAD isn't asking to join the Sun Belt. GLAAD, like the NRA is an issue advocacy organization. The Sun Belt should be looking for institutions that are Universities set broad, and who are looking to compete athletically and academically first, not push some agenda, like Liberty apparently feels is central to its core.
2) Liberty is ALONE in its level of discrimination. There are openly Gay professors at Notre Dame. There are Jewish professors at Baylor and BYU. If you wish to argue that the purpose of Liberty University's Athletic Department is evangelism, then I'll argue that they aren't a fit with the Sun Belt, which is a collection of public, non-discriminatory schools.

You really aren't contradicting my point, but rather amplifying it. Liberty isn't a fit.

(03-07-2014 03:43 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  JFJ just uses Staver to make the statements that his dad once did.

Do you have proof of that? And just saying 'He works at Liberty' doesn't cut it. Otherwise you could say that anything any faculty member does or says is endorsed by a University President.

There is a difference between a professor, protected by tenure, and a University Dean, which is not protected by tenure.

Staver is the titular head of LU's Law School. Thats a VERY high profile position. That comes with a responsibility to represent the school well. Apparently, JFJ and the Board are okay with Staver's behavior, as they've allowed him wide latitude to repeatedly go into the media and advocate some of the most offensive positions possible. Repeatedly.

Furthermore, its hard for LU's supporters to make the argument that LU really shouldn't be telling Staver, THE DEAN OF THEIR LAW SCHOOL, what he can and cannot say on radio interviews he agrees to go on, while at the same time, telling all of their employees that you can't be Jewish, or Gay, or advocate positions contrary to a long list of conservative positions and remain employed by the school (regardless of tenure). LU is involved in telling its employees what they can and cannot do. It speaks volumes that they won't tell Staver not to do what he is doing.

(03-07-2014 03:58 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:19 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  I don't feel welcome there. As a matter of fact, I'd feel UNSAFE there. Arrests of peaceful Gay protesters. Persecution of non-Conservative political viewpoints. Advocacy of extreme abuses of basic human rights at the highest levels of the Administration. Overt and public employment discrimination and student policies that are highly discriminatory not only against LGBT persons, but also against non-evangelicals.

You have never been there. How in the world could you say you wouldn't feel safe? Is it because of the mythical Gay-dar that LUPD has that will pull you over for 'Driving While Gay?'
You bring up protestors who weren't there for an athletic event. Who asked for and were denied permission to demonstrate where they did. Who went ahead and did it anyways. Were politely asked to vacate the premises and refused, thus breaking the law by trespassing. You make it sound like LUPD led by Staver and Jerry Jr released the German Shepherds and unleashed the water cannons to dislodge these people
Are you aware of how many gay athletes have participated for LU athletic teams? More importantly for your purposes, do you know how many athletes who are/were gay who competed against LU on LU's campus and were arrested?

My point stands. I'd like to be able to attend Sun Belt athletic events as I am, and not cram myself back into the closet to do so. If that means wearing a shirt identifying myself as a member of a Gay organization, I should be able to do so. Just like members of other organizations, such as Christian groups and Fraternities wear identifying clothing at sporting events. I wouldn't feel safe doing so at LU. Why is that "Young Life" is okay as a shirt at a game, but "OutPride" isn't?

I shouldn't have to change one thing that I wear at Ladd Stadium to attend a game at another Sun Belt school. I should have the same rights that we extend to our visitors when I visit another school.

I can answer a few questions posed above though. How many openly Gay athletes have participated for LU's athletic teams? That would be zero. I'm also not aware of any athletes who are openly Gay and have competed against LU. I'd imagine the number of openly Gay athletes would also be zero.

I'm just going with LU's history. Its not pretty. It might be different if there was any significant changes visible there. I don't see any changes, other than the offensive statements/advocacy are now primarily coming from the Law School Dean rather than the University President.

And please spare me that story again about the Gay student at Liberty who 'wasn't kicked out'. It appears that he was basically kicked out of the dorms and didn't graduate. If that's the best case you guys have for tolerance at LU, its not very convincing.

Might I ask if you guys ask JFJ why he puts up with Staver's advocacy of throwing all Gay people in prison for the 'crime' of existing? Why he puts up with his Law School Dean going on national radio to call a pro-life Republican Senator a 'cockroach' because that Senator doesn't oppose marriage equality? Why he tolerates his Law School Dean cheerleading Russian, Ugandan, and Nigerian human rights abuses. Why he feels that Liberty should have discriminatory employment policies that extend far beyond those at BYU, Baylor, and Notre Dame? And why he feels that having a Gay monogamous relationship is fireable, but advocating human rights abuses is not?

I didn't ask to be subjected to a set of ridiculous rules in order to see my team compete.

(03-07-2014 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:43 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  JFJ just uses Staver to make the statements that his dad once did.

Do you have proof of that? And just saying 'He works at Liberty' doesn't cut it. Otherwise you could say that anything any faculty member does or says is endorsed by a University President.

There is a difference between a professor, protected by tenure, and a University Dean, which is not protected by tenure.

Staver is the titular head of LU's Law School. Thats a VERY high profile position. That comes with a responsibility to represent the school well. Apparently, JFJ and the Board are okay with Staver's behavior, as they've allowed him wide latitude to repeatedly go into the media and advocate some of the most offensive positions possible. Repeatedly.

Furthermore, its hard for LU's supporters to make the argument that LU really shouldn't be telling Staver, THE DEAN OF THEIR LAW SCHOOL, what he can and cannot say on radio interviews he agrees to go on, while at the same time, telling all of their employees that you can't be Jewish, or Gay, or advocate positions contrary to a long list of conservative positions and remain employed by the school (regardless of tenure). LU is involved in telling its employees what they can and cannot do. It speaks volumes that they won't tell Staver not to do what he is doing.

So the short answer is No. Only inferences and hyperbole.

(03-07-2014 05:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. I'd like to be able to attend Sun Belt athletic events as I am, and not cram myself back into the closet to do so. If that means wearing a shirt identifying myself as a member of a Gay organization, I should be able to do so. Just like members of other organizations, such as Christian groups and Fraternities wear identifying clothing at sporting events. I wouldn't feel safe doing so at LU. Why is that "Young Life" is okay as a shirt at a game, but "OutPride" isn't?

I shouldn't have to change one thing that I wear at Ladd Stadium to attend a game at another Sun Belt school. I should have the same rights that we extend to our visitors when I visit another school.

I can answer a few questions posed above though. How many openly Gay athletes have participated for LU's athletic teams? That would be zero. I'm also not aware of any athletes who are openly Gay and have competed against LU. I'd imagine the number of openly Gay athletes would also be zero.

I'm just going with LU's history. Its not pretty. It might be different if there was any significant changes visible there. I don't see any changes, other than the offensive statements/advocacy are now primarily coming from the Law School Dean rather than the University President.

Who says you can't wear what you normally wear to other SBC schools to a game at LU? That's preposterous, and proves you've never been to a game there

As for gay athletes at Liberty, I personally know 6. As for gay athletes that have competed AGAINST LU in the Big South or other non conference opponents, I have no solid number but it's easily in the 100's if not 1000's over the years. And no arrests. What about gay sports officials? Nope. No arrests. But they were heckled. Probably more for the fact that were umpires and referee's than their sexual orientation. Your 'fear' of going to a game at Liberty is irrational, based on your skewed views and creepy obsession with Staver. The reality for gay athletes or fans is completely different and based on facts. 0 arrests of gay athletes, fans and officials at LU. Judging by factual history, you would be fine if you went to a game there. If you wear an OutPride shirt I'll pay the bail money if you get arrested.....because you won't.

(03-07-2014 05:26 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:43 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  JFJ just uses Staver to make the statements that his dad once did.

Do you have proof of that? And just saying 'He works at Liberty' doesn't cut it. Otherwise you could say that anything any faculty member does or says is endorsed by a University President.

There is a difference between a professor, protected by tenure, and a University Dean, which is not protected by tenure.

Staver is the titular head of LU's Law School. Thats a VERY high profile position. That comes with a responsibility to represent the school well. Apparently, JFJ and the Board are okay with Staver's behavior, as they've allowed him wide latitude to repeatedly go into the media and advocate some of the most offensive positions possible. Repeatedly.

Furthermore, its hard for LU's supporters to make the argument that LU really shouldn't be telling Staver, THE DEAN OF THEIR LAW SCHOOL, what he can and cannot say on radio interviews he agrees to go on, while at the same time, telling all of their employees that you can't be Jewish, or Gay, or advocate positions contrary to a long list of conservative positions and remain employed by the school (regardless of tenure). LU is involved in telling its employees what they can and cannot do. It speaks volumes that they won't tell Staver not to do what he is doing.

So the short answer is No. Only inferences and hyperbole.

You are free to argue that a school that demands that the janitor behave in the privacy of his bed in accordance with LU rules, really is not concerned with what the Dean of the Law School says and does in the national media space.

(03-07-2014 02:12 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 10:13 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-06-2014 04:17 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  If you attended a FBS game that played Liberty, or attended a recent FCS game against LU, please share your thoughts on the game, their fans and traveling numbers. Where there problems reported due to the controversial nature of Liberty? Did school Prez or school officials express concerns in the local media? Basically, what were the experiences of teams that played LU. As LU has recently played played ODU, NCState, WFU, WVU, JMU and in the past App State, these fans are the best to either confirm, or reject the fears and thoughts expressed on this board. Due to the volatility of those for and against LU, please only reply if you attended a home game against LU, and are not a LU fan.

I fail to see how the treatment of a very small sample of visiting fans to LU for a basketball game would prove or disprove any fit concerns regarding employment discrimination within the athletic department at LU on the basis of sexual orientation and religion, questions as to the freedom of athletes to speak out, questions as to the motivation of LU for seeking admission to the Sun Belt, questions as to LU's ability to compromise with others as part of a group, and issues related to the administration that enables advocacy of the worst human rights abuses imaginable.

I, for one, would NOT feel welcome on a campus that simply arrests visitors to campus because they are Gay and advocate, quietly for Gay acceptance and inclusion.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2006/03/10/...niversity/

Is this what would happen to me if I showed up at LU-USA tilt wearing a Association of Gay Jaguar Fans T-shirt? Would I be arrested? Would I be told "no you can't wear that shirt or sit in an identifiable group". By the way, we do have a group. And we do go to away games. We don't have shirts. Yet. And no..we don't call ourselves the Miss Pawla's. Although I don't know why USA dropped her.

For the record, I've been to Lynchburg. I wouldn't set foot on your campus. I know I'm not welcome. Nor are any other Gay persons. Some LU people like to bring up the case of someone who is apparently Gay but who wasn't kicked out for being Gay. I note that he was kicked out of the dorms and didn't graduate.

Here is a novel idea... LEAVE YOUR AGENDA AT HOME!

You say just leave you alone and let you live your life the way you wish. But you go out of your way to shove your agenda in other's face and then ***** and complain when you get some grief. If you truly just wanted to be left alone, you'd go to the game wearing a shirt like all other Jaguar Fans and enjoy the game. Leave the agenda at home.

Welcome to the Sun Belt. I've been a member of this community for close to 40 years as a fan, a student, and an alumni.

My agenda? Like being able to not be barred from working at a Sun Belt athletic department because I'm Gay (or Jewish, or Buddhist, or whatever )? Or being able to attend an athletic event in a group setting, where we, like the friggin' fraternities or religious groups opposed to equality, wear identifying clothing?

And yes, if LU has high ranking administrators advocating/cheerleading legislation to throw me and every member of my group in prison for the crime of existing, then I have a problem with my conference providing them with a bigger platform to do so.

Comparing you showing up at Liberty wearing a shirt proclaiming your sexual preferences to folks representing their Frat or Sorority is insane. Most people could give a rat's ass about what you do behind closed doors. But you can't leave it at that can you? Noooo sir, you've got to shove in their face then play poor little me victim when someone hurts your feelings because they don't appreciate it! Furthermore, I can not believe you have turned this conversation from Liberty's qualifications for joining the Sunbelt to a forum for whining about your personal struggles. Congratulations.

(03-07-2014 05:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Comparing you showing up at Liberty wearing a shirt proclaiming your sexual preferences to folks representing their Frat or Sorority is insane. Most people could give a rat's ass about what you do behind closed doors. But you can't leave it at that can you? Noooo sir, you've got to shove in their face then play poor little me victim when someone hurts your feelings because they don't appreciate it! Furthermore, I can not believe you have turned this conversation from Liberty's qualifications for joining the Sunbelt to a forum for whining about your personal struggles. Congratulations.

Because being gay is solely about one's sexual preference. It surely hasn't impacted his life experience in any way beyond what he does "behind closed doors," so he should keep it to himself. I also move that we ask all married people to remove wedding rings upon entering the stadium. I don't need to know what that man and woman might do later on tonight! Yuck!

I have a theory that Tom hijacks every Liberty thread to have it moved into the smack board. Why in the world would someone's sexuality be brought up at all at a sporting event. The whole thing is asinine. Let's get back to discussing if Liberty will be admitted into the SB and not you're sexual orientation.

(03-07-2014 05:59 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  I have a theory that Tom hijacks every Liberty thread to have it moved into the smack board. Why in the world would someone's sexuality be brought up at all at a sporting event. The whole thing is asinine. Let's get back to discussing if Liberty will be admitted into the SB and not you're sexual orientation.

You're right. I'm glad most people have forgotten this disgraceful display of American sports...

(03-07-2014 05:57 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 05:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Comparing you showing up at Liberty wearing a shirt proclaiming your sexual preferences to folks representing their Frat or Sorority is insane. Most people could give a rat's ass about what you do behind closed doors. But you can't leave it at that can you? Noooo sir, you've got to shove in their face then play poor little me victim when someone hurts your feelings because they don't appreciate it! Furthermore, I can not believe you have turned this conversation from Liberty's qualifications for joining the Sunbelt to a forum for whining about your personal struggles. Congratulations.

Because being gay is solely about one's sexual preference. It surely hasn't impacted his life experience in any way beyond what he does "behind closed doors," so he should keep it to himself. I also move that we ask all married people to remove wedding rings upon entering the stadium. I don't need to know what that man and woman might do later on tonight! Yuck!

http://media.giphy.com/media/Al5p1GPnELZFS/giphy.gif

(03-07-2014 05:57 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  Because being gay is solely about one's sexual preference. It surely hasn't impacted his life experience in any way beyond what he does "behind closed doors," so he should keep it to himself. I also move that we ask all married people to remove wedding rings upon entering the stadium. I don't need to know what that man and woman might do later on tonight! Yuck!

If they've been married for a long time, one will probably watch TV and the other will read a book.

(03-07-2014 05:57 PM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 05:40 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Comparing you showing up at Liberty wearing a shirt proclaiming your sexual preferences to folks representing their Frat or Sorority is insane. Most people could give a rat's ass about what you do behind closed doors. But you can't leave it at that can you? Noooo sir, you've got to shove in their face then play poor little me victim when someone hurts your feelings because they don't appreciate it! Furthermore, I can not believe you have turned this conversation from Liberty's qualifications for joining the Sunbelt to a forum for whining about your personal struggles. Congratulations.

Because being gay is solely about one's sexual preference. It surely hasn't impacted his life experience in any way beyond what he does "behind closed doors," so he should keep it to himself. I also move that we ask all married people to remove wedding rings upon entering the stadium. I don't need to know what that man and woman might do later on tonight! Yuck!

First of all.. A man and woman is = yuck?

But mostly... a wedding ring probably means they will only be sleeping in the bed room later that night.
Know what the one food known to mankind that will kill a woman's sex drive? Wedding Cake! I'd laugh if it wasn't so true. Sure it takes a while to kick in, but once it does.

And finally - I just don't see why anyone wants to make it an issue at game. There are no laws or rules against wearing the gay pride shirt at a Liberty public event. But really, why wear it unless you want to make it an issue? If it is your normal garb, then ok. But I'd guess the guy normally would just wear something with his team colors on it wouldn't he?

Fast forward to 1:25

(03-07-2014 05:26 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 05:08 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 03:43 PM)Brokeback Flamer Wrote:  

(03-07-2014 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  JFJ just uses Staver to make the statements that his dad once did.

Do you have proof of that? And just saying 'He works at Liberty' doesn't cut it. Otherwise you could say that anything any faculty member does or says is endorsed by a University President.

There is a difference between a professor, protected by tenure, and a University Dean, which is not protected by tenure.

Staver is the titular head of LU's Law School. Thats a VERY high profile position. That comes with a responsibility to represent the school well. Apparently, JFJ and the Board are okay with Staver's behavior, as they've allowed him wide latitude to repeatedly go into the media and advocate some of the most offensive positions possible. Repeatedly.

Furthermore, its hard for LU's supporters to make the argument that LU really shouldn't be telling Staver, THE DEAN OF THEIR LAW SCHOOL, what he can and cannot say on radio interviews he agrees to go on, while at the same time, telling all of their employees that you can't be Jewish, or Gay, or advocate positions contrary to a long list of conservative positions and remain employed by the school (regardless of tenure). LU is involved in telling its employees what they can and cannot do. It speaks volumes that they won't tell Staver not to do what he is doing.

So the short answer is No. Only inferences and hyperbole.

(03-07-2014 05:25 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  My point stands. I'd like to be able to attend Sun Belt athletic events as I am, and not cram myself back into the closet to do so. If that means wearing a shirt identifying myself as a member of a Gay organization, I should be able to do so. Just like members of other organizations, such as Christian groups and Fraternities wear identifying clothing at sporting events. I wouldn't feel safe doing so at LU. Why is that "Young Life" is okay as a shirt at a game, but "OutPride" isn't?

I shouldn't have to change one thing that I wear at Ladd Stadium to attend a game at another Sun Belt school. I should have the same rights that we extend to our visitors when I visit another school.

I can answer a few questions posed above though. How many openly Gay athletes have participated for LU's athletic teams? That would be zero. I'm also not aware of any athletes who are openly Gay and have competed against LU. I'd imagine the number of openly Gay athletes would also be zero.

I'm just going with LU's history. Its not pretty. It might be different if there was any significant changes visible there. I don't see any changes, other than the offensive statements/advocacy are now primarily coming from the Law School Dean rather than the University President.

Who says you can't wear what you normally wear to other SBC schools to a game at LU? That's preposterous, and proves you've never been to a game there

As for gay athletes at Liberty, I personally know 6. As for gay athletes that have competed AGAINST LU in the Big South or other non conference opponents, I have no solid number but it's easily in the 100's if not 1000's over the years. And no arrests. What about gay sports officials? Nope. No arrests. But they were heckled. Probably more for the fact that were umpires and referee's than their sexual orientation. Your 'fear' of going to a game at Liberty is irrational, based on your skewed views and creepy obsession with Staver. The reality for gay athletes or fans is completely different and based on facts. 0 arrests of gay athletes, fans and officials at LU. Judging by factual history, you would be fine if you went to a game there. If you wear an OutPride shirt I'll pay the bail money if you get arrested.....because you won't.

Six openly Gay athletes at Liberty U? That would be news as there are less than a dozen openly Gay athletes in the entire country right now at the 340 Division 1 programs. In all sports at those schools. Im sure Cyd Zieglar over at Outsports would LOVE to do that story. Heck, forget Outsports, CNN and the New York Times would be interested in that story.