(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The PSU job is still slightly radioactive. During such times you need an alum. FSU is not the top job in Florida.

UF has most of the State of Florida support. Miami is private and you can hide behind a lot of screens. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

PSU has full State of Pa political support. Pa is home. Barron can go out as a savior/rebuilder instead of people bitching at him about small stuff.

Wrong. That kind of thinking is what destroyed lives. PSU NEEDS someone who is willing to burn it to the ground and rebuild it. There are very, very deep-seeded problems with that institution on all levels. It really, really needs a lot of new blood who isn't afraid of a fight. It also needs more political will than think the current leadership has.

The stories that I could tell you are amazing, but this is the internet, so I have no way of proving them and you probably wouldn't believe me. However, the Pitt fans who post here can be a little sensational when they talk about State, but there is actually a lot of truth in what they say, especially about Paterno and his legacy (which is absolutely alive and well). They're about 5-10% exaggeration, 90-95% right.

EDIT:
Also, PSU does NOT have full state support. The governor threatened to ask for a complete (100%) funding cut in '11. As an alum, I got the email where the word "cataclysmic" was used in regard to state funding.

(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  UF has most of the State of Florida support. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

No, UF does not. It has the most support, but it does not have most of the support. That's a pretty significant difference. FSU has a large caucus in the Capitol and does well for itself there (see multiple attempts by UF to get state designated "flagship" status the last decade and being rebuffed every time until FSU joined the cause and it was passed each time). You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.

As for FSU having gone through hell athletically? What the hell are you even talking about? And if FSU's gone through hell, the only place to go is up.

You do not know nearly as much as you pretend.

(02-15-2014 10:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Also, PSU does NOT have full state support. The governor threatened to ask for a complete (100%) funding cut in '11. As an alum, I got the email where the word "cataclysmic" was used in regard to state funding.

That's a fight that's been going on there for years, though. When I was a student there more than a decade ago, Spanier had full-page ads in the Daily Collegian with these soapbox-like rants (he must have been hanging out with the Willard Preacher beforehand) about the state funding component and how PA was shorting the students. Back then, however, it was about how unfair the structure was that PSU wasn't getting the "bonus funding" that Pitt and Temple seemed to routinely achieve by keeping tuition increases below 5%.

For some counterpoint, at another PA school, Community College of Philadelphia, their former president walloped folks when he said the school was practically a private institution, because the charter in which the school was founded, with funding being covered by equal thirds from tuition, city, and state, had eroded to the point where tuition covered roughly 60% of operational costs, and the city being the deadbeat of the three components.

When ones says PSU needs a political guy, Spanier was that sort. And, had he not acted in the way he did with the Sandusky thing, he was political enough to potentially hold a cabinet position. The guy who dropped the truth bomb in Philly? A few months passed, and a day after he announced his sudden resignation, their board, now with the mayor a member, terminated him. I get the feeling PSU could actually run without state dollars, but the other school couldn't. People "respected" Spanier...not quite so for the other guy. I'm not quite sure who should be the type to run a school.

Barron's going to be a lot like Spanier administratively. I can't wait for the order to rip up the "do not call" sheets and go after us again for donations. Apparently, that was something he did quite often at FSU.

(02-16-2014 07:49 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 10:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Also, PSU does NOT have full state support. The governor threatened to ask for a complete (100%) funding cut in '11. As an alum, I got the email where the word "cataclysmic" was used in regard to state funding.

That's a fight that's been going on there for years, though. When I was a student there more than a decade ago, Spanier had full-page ads in the Daily Collegian with these soapbox-like rants (he must have been hanging out with the Willard Preacher beforehand) about the state funding component and how PA was shorting the students. Back then, however, it was about how unfair the structure was that PSU wasn't getting the "bonus funding" that Pitt and Temple seemed to routinely achieve by keeping tuition increases below 5%.

For some counterpoint, at another PA school, Community College of Philadelphia, their former president walloped folks when he said the school was practically a private institution, because the charter in which the school was founded, with funding being covered by equal thirds from tuition, city, and state, had eroded to the point where tuition covered roughly 60% of operational costs, and the city being the deadbeat of the three components.

When ones says PSU needs a political guy, Spanier was that sort. And, had he not acted in the way he did with the Sandusky thing, he was political enough to potentially hold a cabinet position. The guy who dropped the truth bomb in Philly? A few months passed, and a day after he announced his sudden resignation, their board, now with the mayor a member, terminated him. I get the feeling PSU could actually run without state dollars, but the other school couldn't. People "respected" Spanier...not quite so for the other guy. I'm not quite sure who should be the type to run a school.

Barron's going to be a lot like Spanier administratively. I can't wait for the order to rip up the "do not call" sheets and go after us again for donations. Apparently, that was something he did quite often at FSU.

That's kind of my point.

(02-14-2014 08:10 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He is going to the bigger school where he will get paid more for it. Really guys....it's simple. Don't get all "Southern Pride" about this one. It's just the facts.

But it is 68 today in Tallahassee. The weather alone would keep me down here...lol

(02-16-2014 01:04 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 08:10 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He is going to the bigger school where he will get paid more for it. Really guys....it's simple. Don't get all "Southern Pride" about this one. It's just the facts.

But it is 68 today in Tallahassee. The weather alone would keep me down here...lol

It's 80 degrees where I am so I certainly understand.

(02-16-2014 02:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 01:04 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 08:10 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He is going to the bigger school where he will get paid more for it. Really guys....it's simple. Don't get all "Southern Pride" about this one. It's just the facts.

But it is 68 today in Tallahassee. The weather alone would keep me down here...lol

It's 80 degrees where I am so I certainly understand.

Enjoy!!!

(02-16-2014 03:01 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 02:46 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 01:04 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(02-14-2014 08:10 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  He is going to the bigger school where he will get paid more for it. Really guys....it's simple. Don't get all "Southern Pride" about this one. It's just the facts.

But it is 68 today in Tallahassee. The weather alone would keep me down here...lol

It's 80 degrees where I am so I certainly understand.

Enjoy!!!

Still getting another 3-6 inches of snow here

(02-15-2014 10:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The PSU job is still slightly radioactive. During such times you need an alum. FSU is not the top job in Florida.

UF has most of the State of Florida support. Miami is private and you can hide behind a lot of screens. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

PSU has full State of Pa political support. Pa is home. Barron can go out as a savior/rebuilder instead of people bitching at him about small stuff.

Wrong. That kind of thinking is what destroyed lives. PSU NEEDS someone who is willing to burn it to the ground and rebuild it. There are very, very deep-seeded problems with that institution on all levels. It really, really needs a lot of new blood who isn't afraid of a fight. It also needs more political will than think the current leadership has.

The stories that I could tell you are amazing, but this is the internet, so I have no way of proving them and you probably wouldn't believe me. However, the Pitt fans who post here can be a little sensational when they talk about State, but there is actually a lot of truth in what they say, especially about Paterno and his legacy (which is absolutely alive and well). They're about 5-10% exaggeration, 90-95% right.

EDIT:
Also, PSU does NOT have full state support. The governor threatened to ask for a complete (100%) funding cut in '11. As an alum, I got the email where the word "cataclysmic" was used in regard to state funding.

I wasn't referring to financial support as PA is stingy on education. I said "political" support, meaning the elected folks support PSU over other institutions. While these things overlap, they are separate. You don't have a bunch of Pitt graduates in Harrisburg trying to figure out ways to screw PSU. You do have a number of UF graduates in Tallahassee that spend part of their waking hours trying to screw FSU.

And Marge, the deal over Winston and the replacement of Bowden is the hell of which I spoke. Both have been overcome for now, but the only direction from the top of the mountain is down. UF will be tripling it's efforts to gig you, so will Bama and Auburn. Winston has to walk on eggshells for the remainder of his time at FSU, so does the rest of the team. With success comes scrutiny. PSU is an easier job now because the expectations have been tempered. Expectations at FSU have only been stoked.

Bowden was taken care of before Barron came on board. Barron had no part in that, or in Fisher. Barron is the President, not the Athletic Director. You're once again just making this up as you go along. Inventing or twisting facts to fit what you want them to say.

(02-16-2014 04:37 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Bowden was taken care of before Barron came on board. Barron had no part in that, or in Fisher. Barron is the President, not the Athletic Director. You're once again just making this up as you go along. Inventing or twisting facts to fit what you want them to say.

Marge, you really can't read can't read can you. I said the "replacement" of Bowden. You seem to forget that Jimbo lost 8 games during the first two years of Barron's term and Barron was getting heat over that although you seem to think the heat only falls on the AD. The third year he seemed to have things going but lo and behold he loses to NC State again ruining the year. That's three straight years of hearing that Jimbo is not the man.

Finally, last year, everything comes together and you go 14-0 but you have that little peccadillo with Winston. Again you might wish to think that Barron has nothing at all to do with athletics, spends no time on it, is not held responsible for it - that's your fantasy world. Enjoy it like My Little Pony. The reality is that he lived and breathed all that and after going 14-0 there is one place to go if you don't maintain perfection - down.

And if you don't think Barron was not hit between the eyes for several years over how the end of Bowden's term ended you don't understand the real world. It's Barron who is around to catch the bitching and moaning and the should of, would of, could of.

I suggest that you stop living in a fantasy world where people at the top of an organization are insulated from reality and brush up on your reading skills.

(02-16-2014 07:49 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 10:58 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Also, PSU does NOT have full state support. The governor threatened to ask for a complete (100%) funding cut in '11. As an alum, I got the email where the word "cataclysmic" was used in regard to state funding.

That's a fight that's been going on there for years, though. When I was a student there more than a decade ago, Spanier had full-page ads in the Daily Collegian with these soapbox-like rants (he must have been hanging out with the Willard Preacher beforehand) about the state funding component and how PA was shorting the students. Back then, however, it was about how unfair the structure was that PSU wasn't getting the "bonus funding" that Pitt and Temple seemed to routinely achieve by keeping tuition increases below 5%.

For some counterpoint, at another PA school, Community College of Philadelphia, their former president walloped folks when he said the school was practically a private institution, because the charter in which the school was founded, with funding being covered by equal thirds from tuition, city, and state, had eroded to the point where tuition covered roughly 60% of operational costs, and the city being the deadbeat of the three components.

When ones says PSU needs a political guy, Spanier was that sort. And, had he not acted in the way he did with the Sandusky thing, he was political enough to potentially hold a cabinet position. The guy who dropped the truth bomb in Philly? A few months passed, and a day after he announced his sudden resignation, their board, now with the mayor a member, terminated him. I get the feeling PSU could actually run without state dollars, but the other school couldn't. People "respected" Spanier...not quite so for the other guy. I'm not quite sure who should be the type to run a school.

Barron's going to be a lot like Spanier administratively. I can't wait for the order to rip up the "do not call" sheets and go after us again for donations. Apparently, that was something he did quite often at FSU.

The state Tuition Challenge Grants Program in 1980s and 90s applied to PSU too, so to suggest that it somehow didn't by Spanier, not surprisingly, was misleading.

PSU made a mistake back in the 1950s and 60s by expanding their branch campus system to 18 sites, some of which duplicated educational services in areas already provided for by the state owned and operated PASSHE colleges, and later compounded that in the late 80s/90s by moving all of their branches, over the objection of the state, to four year status. Frankly, there is no reason for the state to fund overlap where it exists, particularly since demographics for college age students in the state have plummeted and with the PASSHE colleges being generally superior schools to PSU branches, but overall few state have worse public support for their research universities than Pennsylvania, which is why Pitt, PSU, and Temple all have among the most expensive "public" tuition in the country. They're not traditional public schools though, particularly Pitt and Temple, as those two were historically private and continue to be operationally private.

Keep proclaiming to be some insider. Most of what you say is straight nonsense.

(02-16-2014 01:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  UF has most of the State of Florida support. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

No, UF does not. It has the most support, but it does not have most of the support. That's a pretty significant difference. FSU has a large caucus in the Capitol and does well for itself there (see multiple attempts by UF to get state designated "flagship" status the last decade and being rebuffed every time until FSU joined the cause and it was passed each time). You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.

As for FSU having gone through hell athletically? What the hell are you even talking about? And if FSU's gone through hell, the only place to go is up.

You do not know nearly as much as you pretend.

If you want a clear speculation on statewide instate support for each Florida University school: (Miami does not count - private)

UF 35%

FSU 25%

UCF 10% (growing fast)

USF 10% (holding steady due to infighting by Tamp area politicians - just split off Polk county campus to create new state university) http://www.usforacle.com/news/scott-appr...-1.2733717

FIU 5%
FAU 5% (but very influential)
FAMU 3%
FGCU 2%
UNF 2%
UWF 1% (president is sibling of past Speaker of Florida House)
New College

(02-17-2014 10:00 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 01:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  UF has most of the State of Florida support. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

No, UF does not. It has the most support, but it does not have most of the support. That's a pretty significant difference. FSU has a large caucus in the Capitol and does well for itself there (see multiple attempts by UF to get state designated "flagship" status the last decade and being rebuffed every time until FSU joined the cause and it was passed each time). You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.

As for FSU having gone through hell athletically? What the hell are you even talking about? And if FSU's gone through hell, the only place to go is up.

You do not know nearly as much as you pretend.

If you want a clear speculation on statewide instate support for each Florida University school: (Miami does not count - private)

UF 35%

FSU 25%

UCF 10% (growing fast)

USF 10% (holding steady due to infighting by Tamp area politicians - just split off Polk county campus to create new state university) http://www.usforacle.com/news/scott-appr...-1.2733717

FIU 5%
FAU 5% (but very influential)
FAMU 3%
FGCU 2%
UNF 2%
UWF 1% (president is sibling of past Speaker of Florida House)
New College

As someone who works in Tallahassee politics, I have no idea what you're trying to say or claim here.

(02-18-2014 09:35 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(02-17-2014 10:00 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 01:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  UF has most of the State of Florida support. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

No, UF does not. It has the most support, but it does not have most of the support. That's a pretty significant difference. FSU has a large caucus in the Capitol and does well for itself there (see multiple attempts by UF to get state designated "flagship" status the last decade and being rebuffed every time until FSU joined the cause and it was passed each time). You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.

As for FSU having gone through hell athletically? What the hell are you even talking about? And if FSU's gone through hell, the only place to go is up.

You do not know nearly as much as you pretend.

If you want a clear speculation on statewide instate support for each Florida University school: (Miami does not count - private)

UF 35%

FSU 25%

UCF 10% (growing fast)

USF 10% (holding steady due to infighting by Tamp area politicians - just split off Polk county campus to create new state university) http://www.usforacle.com/news/scott-appr...-1.2733717

FIU 5%
FAU 5% (but very influential)
FAMU 3%
FGCU 2%
UNF 2%
UWF 1% (president is sibling of past Speaker of Florida House)
New College

As someone who works in Tallahassee politics, I have no idea what you're trying to say or claim here.

I think the tell here is the oxymoron "clear speculation".

(02-17-2014 10:00 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 01:08 AM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(02-15-2014 06:41 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  UF has most of the State of Florida support. FSU doesn't have as much State political support and has been through hell from a sports standpoint from which the only step is down.

No, UF does not. It has the most support, but it does not have most of the support. That's a pretty significant difference. FSU has a large caucus in the Capitol and does well for itself there (see multiple attempts by UF to get state designated "flagship" status the last decade and being rebuffed every time until FSU joined the cause and it was passed each time). You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.

As for FSU having gone through hell athletically? What the hell are you even talking about? And if FSU's gone through hell, the only place to go is up.

You do not know nearly as much as you pretend.

If you want a clear speculation on statewide instate support for each Florida University school: (Miami does not count - private)

UF 35%

FSU 25%

UCF 10% (growing fast)

USF 10%

I'm not sure why Miami wouldn't count when they receive some state funding.

Also, I've posted several times on this site actual poll results from a polling company that shows allegiances in Florida are FSU with around 22%, UF 25%, UCF and UM 5-10%, USF 5% and everyone else with scraps. Those with no allegiance or who are unsure were around 25%.