(02-03-2014 03:14 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:09 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Oh, he won and he won in a way that had never been done at Winthrop and has not been done since. Did he win national titles... no. He did, however, beat numerous teams that had far more money, exposure and tradition, and he did it fairly regularly. The job he did at Winthrop and the systems he put into place laid the groundwork for the job he is doing at Wichita. Gregg Marshall consistently outpaced expectations at Winthrop and he's doing it again at Wichita. He's a leader.

Great, but as of last season only one tourney win, right? Not really "proven winner" on the biggest stage.

14 years in coaching before he proved that he could get it done in March.

I said he was a proven winner and he consistently won. You are the one who attached your criteria. I don't expect 14-16 seeds to win in the NCAA's, but I do recognize the difficulty in taking a small school like Winthrop and turning it into one that can beat a #6 seed in the tournament. I also recognize how a coach could earn confidence in his ability to lead a program and parlay that into success at another school. I do recognize, too, how the players of that team could feed off of the coaches confidence and then play above their talent level. Wichita is a team, after all, comprised mostly of 3 star recruits. The Van Fleet kid was a 4 star but the rest of the team would not be considered by programs at the level of the UofM.

(02-01-2014 05:46 PM)btiger Wrote:  we're stuck with him......has a ridiculous contract that we cant get out of

cartoon character

Not really a contract, but I get your point. Hopefully, the voters have learned their lesson.

(02-03-2014 03:55 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:14 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:09 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Oh, he won and he won in a way that had never been done at Winthrop and has not been done since. Did he win national titles... no. He did, however, beat numerous teams that had far more money, exposure and tradition, and he did it fairly regularly. The job he did at Winthrop and the systems he put into place laid the groundwork for the job he is doing at Wichita. Gregg Marshall consistently outpaced expectations at Winthrop and he's doing it again at Wichita. He's a leader.

Great, but as of last season only one tourney win, right? Not really "proven winner" on the biggest stage.

14 years in coaching before he proved that he could get it done in March.

I said he was a proven winner and he consistently won. You are the one who attached your criteria. I don't expect 14-16 seeds to win in the NCAA's, but I do recognize the difficulty in taking a small school like Winthrop and turning it into one that can beat a #6 seed in the tournament. I also recognize how a coach could earn confidence in his ability to lead a program and parlay that into success at another school. I do recognize, too, how the players of that team could feed off of the coaches confidence and then play above their talent level. Wichita is a team, after all, comprised mostly of 3 star recruits. The Van Fleet kid was a 4 star but the rest of the team would not be considered by programs at the level of the UofM.

Marshall has already turned down jobs at SEC and ACC schools. He's smart enough to know that at some places you can't win. South Carolina is one for sure. I still can't believe Frank Martin went there.

(02-03-2014 03:55 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:14 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:09 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Oh, he won and he won in a way that had never been done at Winthrop and has not been done since. Did he win national titles... no. He did, however, beat numerous teams that had far more money, exposure and tradition, and he did it fairly regularly. The job he did at Winthrop and the systems he put into place laid the groundwork for the job he is doing at Wichita. Gregg Marshall consistently outpaced expectations at Winthrop and he's doing it again at Wichita. He's a leader.

Great, but as of last season only one tourney win, right? Not really "proven winner" on the biggest stage.

14 years in coaching before he proved that he could get it done in March.

I said he was a proven winner and he consistently won. You are the one who attached your criteria. I don't expect 14-16 seeds to win in the NCAA's, but I do recognize the difficulty in taking a small school like Winthrop and turning it into one that can beat a #6 seed in the tournament. I also recognize how a coach could earn confidence in his ability to lead a program and parlay that into success at another school. I do recognize, too, how the players of that team could feed off of the coaches confidence and then play above their talent level. Wichita is a team, after all, comprised mostly of 3 star recruits. The Van Fleet kid was a 4 star but the rest of the team would not be considered by programs at the level of the UofM.

By your criteria then, Pastner is a proven winner. You can't mean that.

As for Wichita being comprised of three stars, he had a future NBA talent in Mykel "gifted" to him by Turgeon and he recruited another in Murry. Now he's got Early and Van Vleet. How many MVC schools have 4 potential NBA'ers come trhough their program in 6 seasons.

(02-03-2014 04:01 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:55 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:14 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 03:09 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Oh, he won and he won in a way that had never been done at Winthrop and has not been done since. Did he win national titles... no. He did, however, beat numerous teams that had far more money, exposure and tradition, and he did it fairly regularly. The job he did at Winthrop and the systems he put into place laid the groundwork for the job he is doing at Wichita. Gregg Marshall consistently outpaced expectations at Winthrop and he's doing it again at Wichita. He's a leader.

Great, but as of last season only one tourney win, right? Not really "proven winner" on the biggest stage.

14 years in coaching before he proved that he could get it done in March.

I said he was a proven winner and he consistently won. You are the one who attached your criteria. I don't expect 14-16 seeds to win in the NCAA's, but I do recognize the difficulty in taking a small school like Winthrop and turning it into one that can beat a #6 seed in the tournament. I also recognize how a coach could earn confidence in his ability to lead a program and parlay that into success at another school. I do recognize, too, how the players of that team could feed off of the coaches confidence and then play above their talent level. Wichita is a team, after all, comprised mostly of 3 star recruits. The Van Fleet kid was a 4 star but the rest of the team would not be considered by programs at the level of the UofM.

By your criteria then, Pastner is a proven winner. You can't mean that.

As for Wichita being comprised of three stars, he had a future NBA talent in Mykel "gifted" to him by Turgeon and he recruited another in Murry. Now he's got Early and Van Vleet. How many MVC schools have 4 potential NBA'ers come trhough their program in 6 seasons.

I think Pastner's situation at Memphis has been, up until this season, unique in college basketball. CUSA had no other programs that put the resources into basketball that Memphis did. The talent Josh assembled certainly won games, but a lot of coaches would have won with the disparities in talent and resources. Marshall, on the other hand, enjoyed none of that at Winthrop and Josh would have benefitted tremendously by going the same route. This is not a wean yourself along kind of program, and the expectations are to win in March. He has been pointing to this season for some time. Let's hope we fare a little better than we did in his years prior.

Neither Van Fleet or Early currently show up on the NBADRAFT.NET site as going in either the 1st or 2nd round of the draft. Both have some work to do to make it to the league.

The Mekel kid is a stretch don't you think? He only played two seasons at WSU and then went back to Israel and played for the next 5. He developed, like Marc Gasol, playing abroad as a pro and then came back to the states. He was not an NBA caliber guard at Wichita State.

(02-03-2014 05:14 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think Pastner's situation at Memphis has been, up until this season, unique in college basketball. CUSA had no other programs that put the resources into basketball that Memphis did. The talent Josh assembled certainly won games, but a lot of coaches would have won with the disparities in talent and resources. Marshall, on the other hand, enjoyed none of that at Winthrop and Josh would have benefitted tremendously by going the same route. This is not a wean yourself along kind of program, and the expectations are to win in March. He has been pointing to this season for some time. Let's hope we fare a little better than we did in his years prior.

Marshall took over for Turgeon, who moved up to a better position and left Marshall will all his talent. Even with more talent than any other MVC schools, 8 years of expereince and a program almost freshly off a Sweet 16 season, it still took Marshall several seasons to start winning at Wichita St. While I agree it would've been nice to hire a coach with 8 years D1 experience, we didn't. Nothing we can do about that now.

Neither Van Fleet or Early currently show up on the NBADRAFT.NET site as going in either the 1st or 2nd round of the draft. Both have some work to do to make it to the league.

Both are great talents. Early may not see the NBA, and Van Vleet may not because of his height, but he's a talented college player, probably moreso than any other rookie in the MVC.

The Mekel kid is a stretch don't you think? He only played two seasons at WSU and then went back to Israel and played for the next 5. He developed, like Marc Gasol, playing abroad as a pro and then came back to the states. He was not an NBA caliber guard at Wichita State.

Mekel was a talent, enough so that he can see an NBA roster this season. Whether Marshall developed it or not doesn't really change the fact that it was there for him to utilize.

(02-03-2014 12:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:07 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 11:43 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 09:27 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 09:24 AM)GermantownTiger Wrote:  Personally, I think it's only fair to judge Pastner on the results over the course of the ENTIRE season; this business of getting totally amped up or down after each win or loss is pretty laughable.

I still think we've got a decent shot at making the Sweet 16; the tougher conference schedule will really help our team be mentally stronger when it counts in the Big Dance.

In the meantime, enjoy the ride!

Yep, I'll make up my mind on this season after this season is over.

I tend to be of this opinion as well....although I was VERY down on Josh at the first of the season, I've been on the roller coaster up & down. I'm not going to waste a ton of energy on it until after the season's over. He's not going to be canned mid-season (nor should he be, IMO), so we'll see what things look like in March.

No one should be surprised he got out-coached by Larry Brown, though.

On January 27th, 2013, eventual champion Louisville was 4-3 in conference play.

Final Four squad Syracuse finished conference play 11-7 and finished 5th in conference in 2013.

Michigan finished 4th in the B1G in 2013, lost to a terrible PSU squad and then made the NC championship game.

Hell, Wichita State had 6 losses IN CONFERENCE and they play in the MVC.


I'm not saying that Memphis will have great success in the tourney, but these four teams didn't look stellar going into tourney play, so it's wise to let the season play out before we start bellyaching.

We're in a new conference now, the C-USA is in the past. We're going to lose games. The tournament is what matters.

The difference...

Louisville - Rick Pitino
UCONN - Jim Calhoun
Michigan - John Beilein
Wichita State - Greg Marshall

All 4 of those coaches are experienced winners and all of those coaches have earned respect and confidence from their team. There are times I believe our kids just don't have that same respect and confidence in Josh.

Maybe he'll turn it around this year in the tournament.

Is that why we can't make 3 point shots consistently against quality opponents?

(02-03-2014 05:57 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:07 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 11:43 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 09:27 AM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  Yep, I'll make up my mind on this season after this season is over.

I tend to be of this opinion as well....although I was VERY down on Josh at the first of the season, I've been on the roller coaster up & down. I'm not going to waste a ton of energy on it until after the season's over. He's not going to be canned mid-season (nor should he be, IMO), so we'll see what things look like in March.

No one should be surprised he got out-coached by Larry Brown, though.

On January 27th, 2013, eventual champion Louisville was 4-3 in conference play.

Final Four squad Syracuse finished conference play 11-7 and finished 5th in conference in 2013.

Michigan finished 4th in the B1G in 2013, lost to a terrible PSU squad and then made the NC championship game.

Hell, Wichita State had 6 losses IN CONFERENCE and they play in the MVC.


I'm not saying that Memphis will have great success in the tourney, but these four teams didn't look stellar going into tourney play, so it's wise to let the season play out before we start bellyaching.

We're in a new conference now, the C-USA is in the past. We're going to lose games. The tournament is what matters.

The difference...

Louisville - Rick Pitino
UCONN - Jim Calhoun
Michigan - John Beilein
Wichita State - Greg Marshall

All 4 of those coaches are experienced winners and all of those coaches have earned respect and confidence from their team. There are times I believe our kids just don't have that same respect and confidence in Josh.

Maybe he'll turn it around this year in the tournament.

Is that why we can't make 3 point shots consistently against quality opponents?

When we take them off the dribble or without reversing the ball it is.

(02-03-2014 12:15 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-03-2014 12:11 PM)BK#14 Wrote:  

(02-02-2014 12:14 AM)Cletus Wrote:  

(02-01-2014 05:46 PM)btiger Wrote:  we're stuck with him......has a ridiculous contract that we cant get out of

cartoon character

I agree 6th ranked Kansas went into 25th ranked Texas and lost big today.

Kansas coach Bill Self should be fired for not preparing his players better don't you think?

uh...no...he's won a couple of titles....Josh hadnt won crap

Has nothing to do with what happened to his team on Saturday, right?

No...but Self is allowed more mulligans.....win a couple of championships and people are a little more forgiving....right?

(02-04-2014 05:00 PM)BK#14 Wrote:  No...but Self is allowed more mulligans.....win a couple of championships and people are a little more forgiving....right?

Again, that doesn't have anything to do with Kansas' game against Texas. A drubbing is a drubbing. The committee won't look at that game, come March, and say "Oh, we'll ignore that one, that's Bill Self's team and he's got championships".

(02-04-2014 05:09 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(02-04-2014 05:00 PM)BK#14 Wrote:  No...but Self is allowed more mulligans.....win a couple of championships and people are a little more forgiving....right?

Again, that doesn't have anything to do with Kansas' game against Texas. A drubbing is a drubbing. The committee won't look at that game, come March, and say "Oh, we'll ignore that one, that's Bill Self's team and he's got championships".

sure they will....all things being near equal...SOS,RPI,rankings,laid eggs...everything..They dont seed Kansas before Memphis???