(01-29-2014 04:19 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Dude, I'm not doing your research for you.

You are free to believe what you choose.

The things I spoke of are out there and at your fingertips. Look them up.

That is not how things work.

You made the rather remarkable claim that THOUSANDS of people who are non Christians have been exorcised, and that you have seen dozens of filmed exorcisms.

The burden of proof is yours to provide. Otherwise you're a charlatan.

You also have to understand that if demons are real, their entire purpose now is to turn people away from God and deceive all mankind.

Why then would you seek the ultimate proof from them of the supernatural realm?

(01-29-2014 03:56 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  I have a few honest questions.

Why are only Christians, and so often Catholics, possessed? Why is it that the possessed are the very people who hold belief systems that include the possibility of demonic possession? Where is the Buddhist possessed by the Devil? Or more importantly, where is the Atheist possessed by a demon? If it's real, why are demons and the Devil playing favorites?

There are probably a billion smart phones on the planet. Why is it that no one there thought to film any portion of the possession with one of them? Where are the pictures of the oil on the blinds, of the basement, of the alter etc. If there are pictures, it's the internet, it's not like you can run out of ink. Or, did everyone conveniently forgot to document everything with media?

Well to answer your question, demon possessions happen all over the world, documented footage is all over Google and Youtube... However, why would a demon possess an unsaved soul? That's like fishing for dead fish.

When you hear about a battle of good and evil, it's not a hoax. Satan has demons everywhere trying to get the souls of those who are close to being saved because he wants as many souls as he can get. He's been working on that for a long time, and his first major step was getting God out of schools and public places... It's almost too easy for him now.

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:19 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Dude, I'm not doing your research for you.

You are free to believe what you choose.

The things I spoke of are out there and at your fingertips. Look them up.

That is not how things work.

You made the rather remarkable claim that THOUSANDS of people who are non Christians have been exorcised, and that you have seen dozens of filmed exorcisms.

The burden of proof is yours to provide. Otherwise you're a charlatan.

There is no burden of ANYTHING on me here. That is just typical message board arrogance.

I don't care what you believe. It makes me no difference. I simply pointed you in a direction. Its up to you to follow it or ignore it.

The fact that you are suddenly calling me names for this says all that needs to be said.

SMH

A demon can not possess a "saved soul". Light and Darkness can not coexist.

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:19 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Dude, I'm not doing your research for you.

You are free to believe what you choose.

The things I spoke of are out there and at your fingertips. Look them up.

That is not how things work.

You made the rather remarkable claim that THOUSANDS of people who are non Christians have been exorcised, and that you have seen dozens of filmed exorcisms.

The burden of proof is yours to provide. Otherwise you're a charlatan.

You can't do a FOIA on this stuff. They are private matters. Sometimes stuff gets out into the public and sometimes you can find detailed case files.
There was a Priest across the pond who did thousands of exorcisms but in his opinion maybe 100 cases were real possessions.

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:19 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Dude, I'm not doing your research for you.

You are free to believe what you choose.

The things I spoke of are out there and at your fingertips. Look them up.

That is not how things work.

You made the rather remarkable claim that THOUSANDS of people who are non Christians have been exorcised, and that you have seen dozens of filmed exorcisms.

The burden of proof is yours to provide. Otherwise you're a charlatan.

If Jedi is anything like me, as Christians, we don't go into search for things like this, but here is the first thing that came up on Google for you,

""By conservative estimates, there are at least five or six hundred evangelical exorcism ministries in operation today, and quite possibly two or three times this many," he writes, in addition to numerous exorcisms performed by charismatic, Pentecostal and other brands of Christianity."

Exorcism Thriving in U.S., Say Experts

If you want to search youtube then be my guest, but understand that when you do this as an unsaved soul, you're taking the risk of opening doors that should never be opened by he that hath no faith.

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:19 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Dude, I'm not doing your research for you.

You are free to believe what you choose.

The things I spoke of are out there and at your fingertips. Look them up.

That is not how things work.

You made the rather remarkable claim that THOUSANDS of people who are non Christians have been exorcised, and that you have seen dozens of filmed exorcisms.

The burden of proof is yours to provide. Otherwise you're a charlatan.

I don't blame you for your skepticism.

I've never seen such films. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I'm not sure what's in them. By definition the things are beyond nature, so who knows what that means as far as film/video?

I also know that such things can be hoaxed. So, I doubt if they'd persuade you anyway.

In the end, I see little value for these things, for me anyway.

The supernatural is sensational. That may be important at times, but it's not overly common.

I prefer to look at the remarkable impact of Christianity on the natural world. It's the Guiding influence for W. Civ. where
-Economic growth benefitted virtually all in a society, impacting billions
-Science,tech and medicine flourished
-Women were no longer treated as property
-Slavery was abolished
-The poor and strangers were treated fairly and protected
-Gov't was for people, not as a way to oppress them

Most of these things are so ingrained in the West that it's difficult to think of a world w/o this moral code, yet these are either unique to Christianity, or persisted over many centuries w/in Christianity.

Moreover, it's impact outside of the west has been largely positive.

These things were not accomplished perfectly. There is room for criticism (although it's usually exaggerated beyond the reasonable). Nevertheless, it dwarfs any other religion or social movement for the benefit of mankind.

That alone is worth serious, long term deliberation before rejecting it.

(01-29-2014 04:31 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  A demon can not possess a "saved soul". Light and Darkness can not coexist.

This.


Also, it appears that when this type of thing is witnessed by non believers, they quickly revert and get saved.

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Why then would you seek the ultimate proof from them of the supernatural realm?

You're claiming ultimate proof is available through film, even film that you personally have reviewed, and that additional clear and precise examples of possession and exorcism are available on the internet.

Now I've given you another opportunity to point me to clear and unambiguous representations of your belief in demons and exorcisms, yet you won't do so. Why are you hesitant to share it with the non-believers?

Is it perhaps that you don't believe really believe the videos, either?

(01-29-2014 04:26 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  However, why would a demon possess an unsaved soul? That's like fishing for dead fish.

I can actually buy that explanation. Perhaps the best defense against demonic possession is clearly to ensure that the Devil has no quarrel with you.

(01-29-2014 04:49 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:26 PM)LSU04_08 Wrote:  However, why would a demon possess an unsaved soul? That's like fishing for dead fish.

I can actually buy that explanation. Perhaps the best defense against demonic possession is clearly to ensure that the Devil has no quarrel with you.

Satan has a quarrel with all mankind unless you're doing his evil work for him... I see you laughing but its really not a laughing matter, if you ever encounter it, you'll agree.

(01-29-2014 04:46 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Why then would you seek the ultimate proof from them of the supernatural realm?

You're claiming ultimate proof is available through film, even film that you personally have reviewed, and that additional clear and precise examples of possession and exorcism are available on the internet.

Now I've given you another opportunity to point me to clear and unambiguous representations of your belief in demons and exorcisms, yet you won't do so. Why are you hesitant to share it with the non-believers?

Is it perhaps that you don't believe either?

Stanley, if we gave you videos you would just say it is a video hoax, which is easy to do of course. AS the poster said, if you are a non believer and an Atheist I would not go poking around on this topic.

Same as I would not recommend messing around with ouija board.

(01-29-2014 04:46 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Why then would you seek the ultimate proof from them of the supernatural realm?

You're claiming ultimate proof is available through film, even film that you personally have reviewed, and that additional clear and precise examples of possession and exorcism are available on the internet.

Now I've given you another opportunity to point me to clear and unambiguous representations of your belief in demons and exorcisms, yet you won't do so. Why are you hesitant to share it with the non-believers?

Is it perhaps that you don't believe either?

You have got to be kidding me. I never claimed "proof" of anything. I just said exorcisms are common and there are a lot on film. I don't know which are fake and which are not.

I am not the slightest bit interesting in a message board argument or pissing contest over something like this.

There is nothing I can post or link that will alter you opinions in any way. Therefore, it is pointless for me to do so.

The only way you would do so is by researching, reading and learning about these things for yourself.

Interesting how offended you seem by all this. For a supposed non-believer, you sure do need proof of something awful bad here.

I think I've found the snake charmer demographic with the Head Dungeon Master presiding over the masses!!!!!!!

This is my favorite!!!!!

"Take a missionary trip to Africa. It happens a lot there. I personal have seen dozens of filmed exorcisms."


What a loon!!!!

(01-29-2014 04:54 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:46 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(01-29-2014 04:23 PM)Jedi Master Sipho-Dyas Wrote:  Why then would you seek the ultimate proof from them of the supernatural realm?

You're claiming ultimate proof is available through film, even film that you personally have reviewed, and that additional clear and precise examples of possession and exorcism are available on the internet.

Now I've given you another opportunity to point me to clear and unambiguous representations of your belief in demons and exorcisms, yet you won't do so. Why are you hesitant to share it with the non-believers?

Is it perhaps that you don't believe either?

You have got to be kidding me.

When you don't know it exists, you'll never see it coming.

DM: I have "personal" saw many filmed exorcisms.

Rest of World: OK, where can we find one of the many....

DM: I have told you enough... it is not my duty to show you the path out of darkness

R.O.W.: What????????

D.M.: Enough... I have said enough.........

Funny how this thread went from a detailed Indy Star report, all of the eye witness stuff from credible professionals,
and then the atheists poke fun at and belittle the Christian posters on this thread. They won't even comment on the
original article.

(01-29-2014 05:03 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  DM: I have "personal" saw many filmed exorcisms.

Rest of World: OK, where can we find one of the many....

DM: I have told you enough... it is not my duty to show you the path out of darkness

R.O.W.: What????????

D.M.: Enough... I have said enough.........

You missed the part where he said many are in case files and not released to public media. Why are you giving him sh*t for admitting to seeing exorcisms?

(01-29-2014 04:43 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  The supernatural is sensational. That may be important at times, but it's not overly common.

Apparently so, because would not a film or picture that is clear and unambiguous, that has been confirmed by credible parties, perhaps taken in some sort of public areas by a skeptical or non-related party be perhaps the most important thing to ever happen to mankind? It would sort of put the whole religion thing to rest, wouldn't it? That is a healthy part of my skepticism. There are so many claims of the supernatural with little honest proof, when there seems to be infinite opportunities to capture proof in a way that leaves little for discussion.

(01-29-2014 04:43 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  I prefer to look at the remarkable impact of Christianity on the natural world. It's the Guiding influence for W. Civ. where
-Economic growth benefitted virtually all in a society, impacting billions
-Science,tech and medicine flourished
-Women were no longer treated as property
-Slavery was abolished
-The poor and strangers were treated fairly and protected
-Gov't was for people, not as a way to oppress them

Most of these things are so ingrained in the West that it's difficult to think of a world w/o this moral code, yet these are either unique to Christianity, or persisted over many centuries w/in Christianity.

You and I have enough history here to know that we are in complete agreement with the importance that Christianity has played throughout history.

(01-29-2014 04:43 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  That alone is worth serious, long term deliberation before rejecting it.

I accept it lock stock and smoking barrel (or is that bloody sword?) The alternatives to Christianity in the West would be

"In such condition there is no place for industry, because the fruit thereof is uncertain, and consequently, not culture of the earth, no navigation, nor the use of commodities that may be imported by sea, no commodious building, no instruments of moving and removing such things as require much force, no knowledge of the face of the earth, no account of time, no arts, no letters, no society, and which is worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death, and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Leviathan or The Matter, Forme and Power of a Common Wealth Ecclesiasticall and Civil