(01-31-2014 02:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:11 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:08 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Win against #1 Kansas = same thing as win against #349 Presbyterian College; correct?

You can switch the Memphis road loss with OSU to a win and the road win vs. Temple to a loss and the RPI would be the same.

If you only played and beat Kansas your RPI would go up the same as if you only played and beat Presbyterian College; correct?

No. Kansas would be a bigger bump because of Kansas' AWP and their Opp AWP. The 25% for the "win" is the same for Memphis' AWP.

Don't know how else to explain WHO you played matters...not who you BEAT. He is having such a hard time with that concept.

I am starting to think he is doing this intentionally trying to get us to just give up because he is stubborn...The alternative is just sad.

Canadian math?

Maybe we would be just as confused if we talked about 55 yard lines and kicking rouges.

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

(01-31-2014 02:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:11 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:08 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Win against #1 Kansas = same thing as win against #349 Presbyterian College; correct?

You can switch the Memphis road loss with OSU to a win and the road win vs. Temple to a loss and the RPI would be the same.

If you only played and beat Kansas your RPI would go up the same as if you only played and beat Presbyterian College; correct?

No. Kansas would be a bigger bump because of Kansas' AWP and their Opp AWP. The 25% for the "win" is the same for Memphis' AWP.

Don't know how else to explain WHO you played matters...not who you BEAT. He is having such a hard time with that concept.

I am starting to think he is doing this intentionally trying to get us to just give up because he is stubborn...The alternative is just sad.

Ok, so it doesn't matter if you beat Kansas or lose to them, as long as you play them; it has the same effect on your RPI. Correct?

(01-31-2014 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

We weren't at 24 at the time; we were at 35.

(01-31-2014 02:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  This thread smacks of the RPI argument last season. It could go on forever.

I think we have mostly agreed on everything since then. I would never have bet on that being possible.

Here, I think Mac and Saluki are making the correct argument though.

Too many factors in play to definitely say that another game against a 100-150 team would raise us X spots.

(01-31-2014 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

After we beat #32 Louisville we went from #29 to #19 in the RPI.

(01-31-2014 02:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:11 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:08 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  You can switch the Memphis road loss with OSU to a win and the road win vs. Temple to a loss and the RPI would be the same.

If you only played and beat Kansas your RPI would go up the same as if you only played and beat Presbyterian College; correct?

No. Kansas would be a bigger bump because of Kansas' AWP and their Opp AWP. The 25% for the "win" is the same for Memphis' AWP.

Don't know how else to explain WHO you played matters...not who you BEAT. He is having such a hard time with that concept.

I am starting to think he is doing this intentionally trying to get us to just give up because he is stubborn...The alternative is just sad.

Ok, so it doesn't matter if you beat Kansas or lose to them, as long as you play them; it has the same effect on your RPI. Correct?

Losing to Kansas tonight would RAISE Memphis' RPI.

(01-31-2014 02:26 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

After we beat #32 Louisville we went from #29 to #19 in the RPI.

ROAD win. Duh. Smaller sample then, more variance.

Math stuff, again.

(01-31-2014 02:26 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:14 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:11 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:09 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If you only played and beat Kansas your RPI would go up the same as if you only played and beat Presbyterian College; correct?

No. Kansas would be a bigger bump because of Kansas' AWP and their Opp AWP. The 25% for the "win" is the same for Memphis' AWP.

Don't know how else to explain WHO you played matters...not who you BEAT. He is having such a hard time with that concept.

I am starting to think he is doing this intentionally trying to get us to just give up because he is stubborn...The alternative is just sad.

Ok, so it doesn't matter if you beat Kansas or lose to them, as long as you play them; it has the same effect on your RPI. Correct?

Losing to Kansas tonight would RAISE Memphis' RPI.

Beating Coppin State at home drops Memphis to 31 in the RPI.

(01-31-2014 02:25 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  This thread smacks of the RPI argument last season. It could go on forever.

I think we have mostly agreed on everything since then. I would never have bet on that being possible.

Here, I think Mac and Saluki are making the correct argument though.

Too many factors in play to definitely say that another game against a 100-150 team would raise us X spots.

I have conceded that it might not be 14 spots, but an extra win would have made a big difference. If you look at us and Iowa, there wasn't very much to choose from; certainly not enough to warrant 14 spots. If you look at what has happened since...

Memphis 1:
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Memphis 2:
15-4
24 RPI
37 SOS

Iowa 1:
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Iowa 2:
15-5
31 RPI
36 SOS

Iowa lost to #5 Michigan State and their RPI went down 10 points. We beat #212 UCF and our RPI went up 11 points. That is an extreme of an example as you can find in both cases.

One win or loss does make a big difference. Along with my response to Saluki below; this pretty much wraps it up. Thanks for playing everyone.

(01-31-2014 02:27 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:26 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

After we beat #32 Louisville we went from #29 to #19 in the RPI.

ROAD win. Duh. Smaller sample then, more variance.

Math stuff, again.

You mentioned HOME win with no prompting...duh.

(01-31-2014 02:22 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

We weren't at 24 at the time; we were at 35.

We are at 24 today.

(01-31-2014 02:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:25 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  This thread smacks of the RPI argument last season. It could go on forever.

I think we have mostly agreed on everything since then. I would never have bet on that being possible.

Here, I think Mac and Saluki are making the correct argument though.

Too many factors in play to definitely say that another game against a 100-150 team would raise us X spots.

I have conceded that it might not be 14 spots, but an extra win would have made a big difference. If you look at us and Iowa, there wasn't very much to choose from; certainly not enough to warrant 14 spots. If you look at what has happened since...

Memphis 1:
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Memphis 2:
15-4
24 RPI
37 SOS

Iowa 1:
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Iowa 2:
15-5
31 RPI
36 SOS

Iowa lost to #5 Michigan State and their RPI went down 10 points. We beat #212 UCF and our RPI went up 11 points. That is an extreme of an example as you can find in both cases.

One win or loss does make a big difference. Along with my response to Saluki below; this pretty much wraps it up. Thanks for playing everyone.

Iowa lost AT HOME, Memphis won ON THE ROAD.

Your OP envisions a replacement of the LO game (a home game).

(01-31-2014 02:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:25 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  This thread smacks of the RPI argument last season. It could go on forever.

I think we have mostly agreed on everything since then. I would never have bet on that being possible.

Here, I think Mac and Saluki are making the correct argument though.

Too many factors in play to definitely say that another game against a 100-150 team would raise us X spots.

I have conceded that it might not be 14 spots, but an extra win would have made a big difference. If you look at us and Iowa, there wasn't very much to choose from; certainly not enough to warrant 14 spots. If you look at what has happened since...

Memphis 1:
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Memphis 2:
15-4
24 RPI
37 SOS

Iowa 1:
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Iowa 2:
15-5
31 RPI
36 SOS

Iowa lost to #5 Michigan State and their RPI went down 10 spots. We beat #212 UCF and our RPI went up 11 points. That is an extreme example as you can find in both cases.

One win or loss does make a big difference.

This doesn't account for all the other movement for the teams in the 20-40 range though. On Thursday, we moved up several spots without even playing because teams around us lost and our OOC opponents did well.

There are too many loose variables. I'd like to find a site that has shows your opponent's composite records and opponent's opponent's composite records so I could do an accurate calculation. I don't have the time to cull through that myself.

(01-31-2014 02:40 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:22 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:18 PM)Stammers Wrote:  If we beat the #1 team our RPI will probably go up 10 spots.

If Memphis beat Kansas in Memphis today, Memphis' rpi would jump from 24 to 21. Just did the math.

Hardly a 10 spot jump.

BUMP.

Response?

We weren't at 24 at the time; we were at 35.

We are at 24 today.

Quote:Duh. Smaller sample then, more variance.

Thanks again.

(01-31-2014 02:42 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:37 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:25 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:07 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:04 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  This thread smacks of the RPI argument last season. It could go on forever.

I think we have mostly agreed on everything since then. I would never have bet on that being possible.

Here, I think Mac and Saluki are making the correct argument though.

Too many factors in play to definitely say that another game against a 100-150 team would raise us X spots.

I have conceded that it might not be 14 spots, but an extra win would have made a big difference. If you look at us and Iowa, there wasn't very much to choose from; certainly not enough to warrant 14 spots. If you look at what has happened since...

Memphis 1:
14-4
35 RPI
35 SOS

Memphis 2:
15-4
24 RPI
37 SOS

Iowa 1:
15-4
21 RPI
45 SOS

Iowa 2:
15-5
31 RPI
36 SOS

Iowa lost to #5 Michigan State and their RPI went down 10 spots. We beat #212 UCF and our RPI went up 11 points. That is an extreme example as you can find in both cases.

One win or loss does make a big difference.

This doesn't account for all the other movement for the teams in the 20-40 range though. On Thursday, we moved up several spots without even playing because teams around us lost and our OOC opponents did well.

There are too many loose variables. I'd like to find a site that has shows your opponent's composite records and opponent's opponent's composite records so I could do an accurate calculation. I don't have the time to cull through that myself.

I would too, because contrary to what a few people believe, I am always looking for the truth. You have to admit though, that the Memphis/Iowa example is striking to say the least. You would have to think that losing to #5 wouldn't drop you so much, and beating #212 wouldn't improve you so much. There are a lot of variables; so I suppose it's impossible to prove either way; but the bottom line is that we did jump 11 spots by beating a team much crappier than #150.

All I was talking about was beating a mediocre team. I didn't say #150, but that kind of became the measuring stick. We went up 11 spots by beating #212 and Iowa went down 10 spots by losing to #5. That's a variance of 21 total spots based on 1 win and 1 loss each.

(01-31-2014 02:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:01 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:59 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:49 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 01:34 PM)Stammers Wrote:  Maybe it would be 10; maybe it would be 12, maybe it would be 8. The point is, that the boost to Rutgers would be much greater than ours would; correct?

Of course it cares who you beat, and who they have beaten.

The boost is greater because it is one extreme VS. another...The SOS bump and the relative activity of the teams around it is what would boost Rutgers...Not the win. If The #1 team lost at home to worst team in the RPI they would fall greatly also...Does this disprove anything, NO...It is still math. The loss wouldn't hurt as much as the SOS hit they would take.

Of course it matters who you beat. Thank you for helping me refute Saluki's silly argument.

NO IT MATTERS WHO YOU PLAYED AND WHERE YOU PLAYED THEM...

You can play the #1 team 10 times and lose to them every time...And play the #200 team 10 times and beat them every time and have the same RPI as a team the beat the #1 team 10 times and lost to the #200 team 10 times. SEE HOW THAT WORKS

Win against #1 Kansas = same thing as win against #349 Presbyterian College; correct?

If you play both, the RPI is indifferent to which one you beat, yes.

(01-31-2014 02:48 PM)Stammers Wrote:  I would too, because contrary to what a few people believe, I am always looking for the truth. You have to admit though, that the Memphis/Iowa example is striking to say the least. You would have to think that losing to #5 wouldn't drop you so much, and beating #212 wouldn't improve you so much. There are a lot of variables; so I suppose it's impossible to prove either way; but the bottom line is that we did jump 11 spots by beating a team much crappier than #150.

All I was talking about was beating a mediocre team. I didn't say #150, but that kind of became the measuring stick. We went up 11 spots by beating #212 and Iowa went down 10 spots by losing to #5.

Well, things like home wins/losses plus what is happening around your ranking play into it.

Because the RPI is basically an average of sorts, our RPI would be helped by one more game (assuming a win) against another team with a good record and whose opponents have a good record.

Conversely, were we to play an additional RPI 200+ team, even if we won, our RPI rank would most likely stay the same or possibly drop a few spots.

(01-31-2014 02:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  ...

Ok, so it doesn't matter if you beat Kansas or lose to them, as long as you play them; it has the same effect on your RPI. Correct?

No. Winning bumps your RPI, but not any more than winning against Presbytarian would. If you play Kansas and Presbyterian at home, and you split those games, and you have 8 other wins, making you 9 and 1, the RPI is indifferent as to whether you beat Kansas or Presbytarian to get to 9 and 1.

(01-31-2014 02:52 PM)MemphisCanes Wrote:  

(01-31-2014 02:48 PM)Stammers Wrote:  I would too, because contrary to what a few people believe, I am always looking for the truth. You have to admit though, that the Memphis/Iowa example is striking to say the least. You would have to think that losing to #5 wouldn't drop you so much, and beating #212 wouldn't improve you so much. There are a lot of variables; so I suppose it's impossible to prove either way; but the bottom line is that we did jump 11 spots by beating a team much crappier than #150.

All I was talking about was beating a mediocre team. I didn't say #150, but that kind of became the measuring stick. We went up 11 spots by beating #212 and Iowa went down 10 spots by losing to #5.

Well, things like home wins/losses plus what is happening around your ranking play into it.

Because the RPI is basically an average of sorts, our RPI would be helped by one more game (assuming a win) against another team with a good record and whose opponents have a good record.

Conversely, were we to play an additional RPI 200+ team, even if we won, our RPI rank would most likely stay the same or possibly drop a few spots.

But isn't it crazy that we actually DID play a +200 team and our RPI went up 11 points?