Any bets on when the first 2016 commit comes in? Reading back through this thread maybe March (not that we held our early ones).... Endless cycle ya know!

(02-10-2015 09:52 PM)LonghornOwl Wrote:  http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2015/2/...-blue-chip

Thanks for posting that.

The problem with comparing player success against recruiting rankings across schools is that the schools that get the best-rated recruits generally also have the best coaching, S&C, and other support (as the article mentions). There is no way to tell which of those factors contributes to success.

What I think would be interesting would be to look at how individual recruiting rankings correlate to player success at a given school -- what are the likelihoods of various levels of success for a 3-star Rice recruit vs. a 2-star Rice recruit? Maybe one of these days I'll run those numbers.

(02-11-2015 04:12 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  What I think would be interesting would be to look at how individual recruiting rankings correlate to player success at a given school -- what are the likelihoods of various levels of success for a 3-star Rice recruit vs. a 2-star Rice recruit? Maybe one of these days I'll run those numbers.

Also interesting would be the comparison of 3 stars from well funded suburban high schools against the 3 stars from rural or poorly funded high schools, which may be a proxy for comparing recruits that get private training.

I don't think you can tell the value of a recruit based on the number of stars they're give by a recruiting agency which knows very little about them. Every kid's high school situation is different. This is why it's so important for the coaching staff to take their time with these kids during recruiting season. The kids have to fit the program...on and off the field. From what I've seen from this year's recruiting class...18 solid players signed. Not bad.

(02-11-2015 08:17 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 04:12 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  What I think would be interesting would be to look at how individual recruiting rankings correlate to player success at a given school -- what are the likelihoods of various levels of success for a 3-star Rice recruit vs. a 2-star Rice recruit? Maybe one of these days I'll run those numbers.

Also intersting would be the comparison of 3 stars from well funded suburban high schools against the 3 stars from rural or poorly funded high schools, which may be a proxy for comparing recruits that get private training.

(02-17-2015 10:10 AM)LuckyOscar55 Wrote:  I don't think you can tell the value of a recruit based on the number of stars they're give by a recruiting agency which knows very little about them. Every kid's high school situation is different. This is why it's so important for the coaching staff to take their time with these kids during recruiting season. The kids have to fit the program...on and off the field. From what I've seen from this year's recruiting class...18 solid players signed. Not bad.

Good point, like a talented WR playing on a HS team using an extremely run-heavy offense. Wasn't Parks and example of this?

(01-30-2015 11:47 AM)LuckyOscar55 Wrote:  Kicker/punter Fox also qb. Threw 18 td passes as a senior. Offensive player of the year in his conference. Also conference player of the year as a catcher for his baseball team last season.

I never got around to commenting on this...but this may be one of the positives of losing to ODU and playing Hawaii. We could soon see a Pass/Punt/Run option on special teams. Another arrow in the quiver and potential to win a game or two on special teams. ODU's special teams play certainly accounted for at 10 pts against us, and the Hawaii kicker (who caught both Hawaii touchdown passes) was a very capable runner out of the punt formation.

(02-17-2015 10:14 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-17-2015 10:10 AM)LuckyOscar55 Wrote:  I don't think you can tell the value of a recruit based on the number of stars they're give by a recruiting agency which knows very little about them. Every kid's high school situation is different. This is why it's so important for the coaching staff to take their time with these kids during recruiting season. The kids have to fit the program...on and off the field. From what I've seen from this year's recruiting class...18 solid players signed. Not bad.

Good point, like a talented WR playing on a HS team using an extremely run-heavy offense. Wasn't Parks and example of this?

I don't remember what sort of offense Judson ran, but Parks was one of our more-touted recruits, with a 3-star rating and several other offers including a couple from P5 schools.

But, I agree about not putting too much (or any) stock in the star ratings.

(02-17-2015 11:38 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(02-17-2015 10:14 AM)mrbig Wrote:  

(02-17-2015 10:10 AM)LuckyOscar55 Wrote:  I don't think you can tell the value of a recruit based on the number of stars they're give by a recruiting agency which knows very little about them. Every kid's high school situation is different. This is why it's so important for the coaching staff to take their time with these kids during recruiting season. The kids have to fit the program...on and off the field. From what I've seen from this year's recruiting class...18 solid players signed. Not bad.

Good point, like a talented WR playing on a HS team using an extremely run-heavy offense. Wasn't Parks and example of this?

I don't remember what sort of offense Judson ran, but Parks was one of our more-touted recruits, with a 3-star rating and several other offers including a couple from P5 schools.

But, I agree about not putting too much (or any) stock in the star ratings.

Winning without 5 Star Recruits
Great article here that brings out a lot of talking points such as:

Quote:Recruiting great players has been and always will be a prerequisite to winning championships, but so much more goes into evaluating those players and turning them into great players at the college level than merely counting stars.

Quote:"Here's the thing: Just because you're a great player in high school doesn't make you a great player in college," Patterson said. "I always tell them, 'You can't have a ceiling when it comes to work ethic.'"

Some of Patterson's best players at TCU played an entirely different position in high school than they did in college, and his preference is to find kids who played several different sports in high school.

Quote:At Michigan State, Missouri and TCU, one of the common denominators is that the same head coach has been in place for at least eight seasons and has been able to maintain a level of staff continuity.

Quote:"I've always said that you're going to get X amount of the top 100, but really where you make your class is from 100 to 200, outside that next group," Patterson said. "The biggest thing is to find kids who want to win championships and want to get an education.

Time to start a 2016 recruiting thread!

Any interesting preferred walk-ons for 2015?

A few notes on the 2015 OL Class.

Isaiah Edwards was just named 2nd Team All-District 19-6A in basketball. His Cinco Ranch team won district and finished with a record of 27-5. Edwards shot 68% from the field, averaging 6.1 points and 3.8 rebounds per game. The recognition supports how incredibly nimble he is for his massive size (6-7 360). And if he sheds 30-40 pounds like the Owl staff wants, the sky's the limit for Edwards...

While Rice was focused on finding Offensive Tackles in the 2015 recruiting class, interior lineman Crockett Mokry was a guy Ronnie Vinklarek obviously couldn't pass up. Quietly he might have been the most heavily recruited of the class. Big 10 powerhouse Northwestern made a strong late push for the powerfully built 6-4 320 pounder. And maybe even more impressive, considering the number of OL they send to the NFL, is that the Iowa Hawkeyes tried to lure Mokry to their OL factory. He was also on veteran OL Coach Joe Wickline's radar at Texas...

The lack of interest for Castin Neumeyer is a real head scratcher to me. Of the 3 signees in the 2015 class he has prototype size and is easily the most versatile - Neumeyer will be a 6-6 300 pounder in college that can play any of the 5 OL positions. His film shows great pad level and leverage for a player of his length. He's already benching 375 pounds, so the physical transition to college football shouldn't be lengthy either. So I ask what's not to like? I think the Owls got (another) steal here. At least a few other colleges agreed in late January - SMU's furious push for him has been documented, but both Kansas and Kansas State also invited Neumeyer to their campuses for late visits...

The OL could be real good the next few years. Something to fuel that, freshman LT Calvin Anderson has legit NFL potential...

Moondog,
As usual, your comments an insight is greatly appreciated. I continue to argue that Bailiff and his staff are the best recruiters Rice has had in decades. Especially impressive is the recruitment of linemen. However, for a number of reasons we still struggle with defensive line depth, but this year three of our most impressive recruits are in the defensive line. I would love to see your analysis of the defensive line recruits.

Let me echo those thanks, Moondog. While shaking my head at the size of these guys... I worked with a senior engineer who had played OL at Maryland way back when... tipping the scales at a hulking 170 lbs.

(03-07-2015 03:25 PM)moondog Wrote:  A few notes on the 2015 OL Class.

Isaiah Edwards was just named 2nd Team All-District 19-6A in basketball. His Cinco Ranch team won district and finished with a record of 27-5. Edwards shot 68% from the field, averaging 6.1 points and 3.8 rebounds per game. The recognition supports how incredibly nimble he is for his massive size (6-7 360). And if he sheds 30-40 pounds like the Owl staff wants, the sky's the limit for Edwards...

While Rice was focused on finding Offensive Tackles in the 2015 recruiting class, interior lineman Crockett Mokry was a guy Ronnie Vinklarek obviously couldn't pass up. Quietly he might have been the most heavily recruited of the class. Big 10 powerhouse Northwestern made a strong late push for the powerfully built 6-4 320 pounder. And maybe even more impressive, considering the number of OL they send to the NFL, is that the Iowa Hawkeyes tried to lure Mokry to their OL factory. He was also on veteran OL Coach Joe Wickline's radar at Texas...

The lack of interest for Castin Neumeyer is a real head scratcher to me. Of the 3 signees in the 2015 class he has prototype size and is easily the most versatile - Neumeyer will be a 6-6 300 pounder in college that can play any of the 5 OL positions. His film shows great pad level and leverage for a player of his length. He's already benching 375 pounds, so the physical transition to college football shouldn't be lengthy either. So I ask what's not to like? I think the Owls got (another) steal here. At least a few other colleges agreed in late January - SMU's furious push for him has been documented, but both Kansas and Kansas State also invited Neumeyer to their campuses for late visits...

The OL could be real good the next few years. Something to fuel that, freshman LT Calvin Anderson has legit NFL potential...

Agree on Anderson. Time will show to be a real steal and why star rankings don't matter. Was hurt his Sr. year in HS. Great footwork, great frame, and the kind of kid you want to recruit into Rice (nice, smart, one parent is Dr. other is Lawyer). Only nit is has to put on some lbs. to fit into that big frame. Would not be surprised at all to see him starting as a RS-Fr. See him at Guard vs. Tackle though.

(03-07-2015 03:25 PM)moondog Wrote:  A few notes on the 2015 OL Class.

Isaiah Edwards was just named 2nd Team All-District 19-6A in basketball. His Cinco Ranch team won district and finished with a record of 27-5. Edwards shot 68% from the field, averaging 6.1 points and 3.8 rebounds per game. The recognition supports how incredibly nimble he is for his massive size (6-7 360). And if he sheds 30-40 pounds like the Owl staff wants, the sky's the limit for Edwards...

Are you saying that Edwards will play basketball as well at Rice, like Jeremy Jones has done this season? Has Mike Rhoades given any indication he is aware, or amenable to having Edwards as another two-sport star? As Owl 69/70 and Hambone have said in many threads, Rice could offer a real recruiting advantage to players who wanted to play two sports in college.

(03-09-2015 10:54 AM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(03-07-2015 03:25 PM)moondog Wrote:  A few notes on the 2015 OL Class.

Isaiah Edwards was just named 2nd Team All-District 19-6A in basketball. His Cinco Ranch team won district and finished with a record of 27-5. Edwards shot 68% from the field, averaging 6.1 points and 3.8 rebounds per game. The recognition supports how incredibly nimble he is for his massive size (6-7 360). And if he sheds 30-40 pounds like the Owl staff wants, the sky's the limit for Edwards...

Are you saying that Edwards will play basketball as well at Rice, like Jeremy Jones has done this season? Has Mike Rhoades given any indication he is aware, or amenable to having Edwards as another two-sport star? As Owl 69/70 and Hambone have said in many threads, Rice could offer a real recruiting advantage to players who wanted to play two sports in college.

I thought the basketball reference was to show his mobility and quickness.

I would think a football/basketball combo would be difficult given the overlap of the seasons, beyond a redshirt year. Football/baseball, less so.

But some players want to give it a shot, and I think being accommodating to those desires does give us a little edge in recruiting.

(03-09-2015 11:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I thought the basketball reference was to show his mobility and quickness.

Yeah, I didn't read any implication that he might play basketball in college (and I imagine it would be Bailiff's call more than Rhoades's, since he's on a football scholarship).

Quote:I would think a football/basketball combo would be difficult given the overlap of the seasons, beyond a redshirt year. Football/baseball, less so.

But some players want to give it a shot, and I think being accommodating to those desires does give us a little edge in recruiting.

I think any school will allow it, for a recruit that they want enough.

It doesn't seem to work out as well in reality as it does on paper. The football and baseball seasons don't overlap, but baseball has fall practice, and football has spring practice. Those are important for young players trying to work their way into the playing rotation. Most of the two-sport recruits in my time, going back to Jeff Venghaus, ended up focussing on one sport.

(03-09-2015 12:48 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 11:09 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I thought the basketball reference was to show his mobility and quickness.

Yeah, I didn't read any implication that he might play basketball in college (and I imagine it would be Bailiff's call more than Rhoades's, since he's on a football scholarship).

Quote:I would think a football/basketball combo would be difficult given the overlap of the seasons, beyond a redshirt year. Football/baseball, less so.

But some players want to give it a shot, and I think being accommodating to those desires does give us a little edge in recruiting.

I think any school will allow it, for a recruit that they want enough.

It doesn't seem to work out as well in reality as it does on paper. The football and baseball seasons don't overlap, but baseball has fall practice, and football has spring practice. Those are important for young players trying to work their way into the playing rotation. Most of the two-sport recruits in my time, going back to Jeff Venghaus, ended up focussing on one sport.

Well, okay then. But even for him to just play hoops his freshman/football redshirt year would provide a little beef off the bench. Understand that Bailiff would have to okay it as he did for Jeremy Jones to play this season. I guess that means Jones won't be back playing hoops next year after football season concludes?

(03-09-2015 01:17 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Well, okay then. But even for him to just play hoops his freshman/football redshirt year would provide a little beef off the bench. Understand that Bailiff would have to okay it as he did for Jeremy Jones to play this season. I guess that means Jones won't be back playing hoops next year after football season concludes?

I didn't mean to imply anything about either Edwards or Jones specifically.

I imagine a lot of people will be watching Jones in spring practices (well, a lot by Rice football practice spectator standards ).

(03-09-2015 12:48 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  It doesn't seem to work out as well in reality as it does on paper. The football and baseball seasons don't overlap, but baseball has fall practice, and football has spring practice. Those are important for young players trying to work their way into the playing rotation. Most of the two-sport recruits in my time, going back to Jeff Venghaus, ended up focusing on one sport.

When do they have time for classwork ??

(03-11-2015 08:07 AM)Da.Owl Wrote:  

(03-09-2015 12:48 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  It doesn't seem to work out as well in reality as it does on paper. The football and baseball seasons don't overlap, but baseball has fall practice, and football has spring practice. Those are important for young players trying to work their way into the playing rotation. Most of the two-sport recruits in my time, going back to Jeff Venghaus, ended up focusing on one sport.

When do they have time for classwork ??

With the amount of off-season work now required, there's not a lot of difference between the time required to focus on one sport year-round and the time to focus on different sports in season.

There's actually some research going on in Europe and elsewhere right now about whether focusing on one sport or multiple sports fosters faster development. A few national sports programs are starting to push multiple sports based upon some of the research. Australia has historically pushed multiple sports rather than single sport focus, and on a per capita basis they have punched considerably above their weight on the world stage for a long time. Here in the US, a lot of the work being done with respect to baseball's Tommy John problem is starting to reach the same conclusion.

I understand the conventional wisdom in the coaching community. I'm questioning that. And so are a lot of other people who are more knowledgeable than I am. I realize that most of the research is focusing on adolescent development. But it's not much of an extension to apply similar concepts to the 18-21 age group.

If being more open to multiple sport participation enables us to recruit 2 or 3 talents here and there who would not have considered a non-P5 school otherwise, I think we probably end up well ahead of the game.